Vikings star Adrian Peterson indicted on felony charge of injury to a child

originally posted by: boncho
a reply to: randomtangentsrme

"A few good swats/ beat downs by peers might have put him on a better life path. . "

You realize one of the most common themes in jail is that people were abused when they we're young? Whether it be physical, mental or sexual.

Very common theme!

Can you give me stats on this, as they pertain to a 4 year old getting disciplined by a switch? Please go back 150 years, as that is where this originates from.

Anyone who says this is not abuse is living in the dark ages or went through this as a child so are rationalizing it because hey they turned out ok. I am all for a parents right to discipline their child. But this four year old kid got bruises all up and down his back and legs and arms. He was hit in the groin. And blood was drawn in multiple places. That is not discipline. That is a man getting angry at a child who can not control his anger. He went way to far. Who hits their four year old in the groin as discipline.

Adrian Peterson knows he went to far. He says so about the groin thing in text messages. The child even said in the police report that he was hit in the face and that he was afraid if he told he would be punched in the face. I have seen just as many parents go the time out route because they really dont want to deal with their kids. As I have seen parents beat their kids because they do not want to deal with them. Good parents find a middle ground. They do not lose their anger and end up leaving there kid bloody and bruised even in the groin area.

On another note. How could you even do this when you had a child that died from this exact same thing. To all the people defending this. Was that ok. I am sure that guy got mad at the kid and was just disciplining him.....right. Disciplining him so hard he died. If it is ok to beat your kid with a switch. Is it ok to hit them in the head. Adrian Petersons other child died from being abused. Being hit in the head.

What if when hitting the four year old in the groin with a branch. Adrian Peterson did irreversible damage to his childs reproductive capabilities. That could of easily happened. Have you ever been just tapped in the groin. It really really hurts. Now imagine getting hit by a branch in the groin. Where is the line drawn between discipline and abuse.

I had my share of switching when I was a kid but never, ever did anyone discipline me in a manner that drew blood or caused bruising. But boy, oh boy, did those switches sting! A switch would get my attention much quicker than a smack on the rear with a hand.
I spatted my kids' hands or legs when they were toddlers but by the time they were four years old other methods worked much better because they were old enough to understand that they were suffering consequences of their behavior. Same with the grandchildren. My grands would tell you that I've never laid a hand on them because they were toddlers when they were spatted.
My husband and his daughter had a huge blow-out when he told her that spanking a toddler's hand wasn't abuse and that if she didn't find a way to make her toddler mind her words, he was going to be seriously injured. Her first words were, "You want me to beat my child! You---you who never ever laid a hand on me want me to beat my child!" He was shocked. She got her fair share of spankings as a child and yet because they were early in her life, she has no memory of them. He explained to her that he had indeed "laid a hand" on her many times when she was a toddler but by the time she was four or five years old a lecture and taking away privileges worked better. Just because she doesn't remember getting her hand smacked when she repeatedly tried to insert a key into an electric outlet---and couldn't be distracted from her mission---with anything short of pain---she will never be convinced that her parents spanked her.

originally posted by: randomtangentsrme

originally posted by: boncho
a reply to: randomtangentsrme

"A few good swats/ beat downs by peers might have put him on a better life path. . "

You realize one of the most common themes in jail is that people were abused when they we're young? Whether it be physical, mental or sexual.

Very common theme!

Can you give me stats on this, as they pertain to a 4 year old getting disciplined by a switch? Please go back 150 years, as that is where this originates from.

Unfortunately I don't have access to extra browser windows and an easy way to copy pasta. But, I can tell you without a doubt, off the top of my head, that murder rates in the 19th and 18th century were astronomical compared to today. And also that number out studies have linked child abuse whether it be physical, mental or sexual as a cause to criminal or anti-social behaviour. And a huge number of convicts all sing the same tune.

Want to know another common theme? Is the people who believe it work will not even acknowledge stats, studies or basic logic when discussing the topic because they are always right ... Just like when their kid get lippy and they pull out the swatch/whip/stick, etc. Not used to having their authority questioned.

a reply to: karmicecstasy

Where did you read that he told him he would punch him in the face if he told anyone?

a reply to: randomtangentsrme

The individual in question is my best friends younger brother. He hasn't told me anything other than he appreciates my input to his life. What I've seen shows me he should have had time with a switch as a child.

Great anecdotal evidence. I can give you some too. I mentor a lad, kept him out of jail even though you'd think he was aiming for that, have been an influence in his life since early teens. Others too. Never beat any of them. Wanted to plenty of times. Boxes, wrestled and one time one hit me once so I went punch for punch sort of, I saw it beginning to escalate so I ended it.

All those little assholes knew I could beat them silly if I so chose to. Some times I really really wanted to, but my hesitation and will is what they recognized not my fist in their face. That's considered teaching by example or action.

The main problem with hitting people to win and argument, or push someone's will, is that you didn't actually win, u didn't bend their will, u forced it. And it doesn't take long for those "punishments" to become and anger outlet for the person issuing them. So many times parents that hit their kids start taking out their frustration during punishment, the kid sees this and remembers "hey, I didn't get hit the other time I did xyz and this isn't even as bad as that" and then gets very confused as to what is right and what is wrong. Because another thing will happen is they will be right in some case, but because they spoke back they got disciplined abused

So instead some of us teach like lessons the hard way. And our protégés eventually get to the point that they make choices that they can be proud of. They need direction, and I'd say it's as simple as that in some cases. But a penis wagging competition isn't really what I had in mind for this debate so I guess in going to have to pull links on a 3inch screen.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: karmicecstasy

Where did you read that he told him he would punch him in the face if he told anyone?

I read it in a couple of places. I think the original report was out of CBS Houston. Reading the actual CBS Houston report and not what other sites are saying about it. It actually says the child thought that he would, not that Peterson actually said it. So I was wrong about him actually saying it. That is just what the child was afraid of when talking to the police. I have changed my original post to reflect that.

CBS Houston

originally posted by: randomtangentsrme

originally posted by: boncho
a reply to: randomtangentsrme

"A few good swats/ beat downs by peers might have put him on a better life path. . "

You realize one of the most common themes in jail is that people were abused when they we're young? Whether it be physical, mental or sexual.

Very common theme!

Can you give me stats on this, as they pertain to a 4 year old getting disciplined by a switch? Please go back 150 years, as that is where this originates from.

"Child maltreatment roughly doubles the probability that an individual engages in many types of crime. This is true even if we compare twins, one of whom was maltreated when the other one was not."

Source

In response to the rise in violent crime, the U.S. spent more money on law enforcement in the 1840s than almost any other country in the world.i Despite this increase in funding, these systems were unable to curb the steady rise in violence that continued until the late 1930s.

Source


Now, I won't go as far as to say hitting kids causes them to be murderers, but you did say the opposite. And as you said, and as my link shows, during the heyday of the switch or swatch or spoon, paddle, belt, whatever Cletus could find to whack his son, there was plenty of murders.

a reply to: Pimpish

hollywoodlife.com...

One must now wonder if the previous death of this two year old will require a new look at his possible involvement.

It seems to certainly be a question that must not be ignored now.

m.tmz.com.../2014/06/25/adrian-petersons-baby-mama-kidnapped-by-man-accused-of-killing-nfl-stars-son

This is also interesting. Looks like a LOT was going on behind the scenes...

We've learned Erica filed court docs, claiming Peterson failed to pay child
support for three straight years, and also failed to reimburse her for their son's
travel expenses and school tuition -- a bill that totaled $52,032.

There must have been some bad blood after that -- because Erica filed
additional docs in July, asking the court to order Peterson not to trash talk her
in front of their son, and not to hide their son from her.

But it was all resolved in September -- according to court docs, the two
reached a settlement. Erica tells us, Adrian paid all his back child support as
well as the other bills.

But there's a catch -- according to the docs, AP plans to stop paying school
tuition for their son by next year. Interesting.

Oddly enough, this article places him in the area on or about the date of the incident. It does not state how long he was in the area, just that he was there, on 'personal matters'.

www.keloland.com...

On Thursday, Vikings Running Back Adrian Peterson was in Sioux Falls for a personal
matter. According to the Vikings, he is now back in Minneapolis and will address the
media after practice. KELOLAND News will be monitoring the conference for more
information.

Former Vikings reporter Sean Jensen just tweeted saying he spoke with Adrian's
father Nelson Peterson, who said:

It is one of Adrian's sons but not Adrian Jr. We are asking for prayers and for respect
for our family.

The toddler remains in critical condition.

He was in the area for an undisclosed period of time, yet, while the child was in critical condition, he never went to see im in the hospital.
He was aware that child was in the hospital, yet, seemingly left the area without visiting. And then, upon hearing his child had succumbed to his injuries, allegedly "rushed back" to be at his bedside when he died.

And then, there is this:

hollywoodlife.com...

When Adrian heard the news that his son had been rushed to the hospital
after being horrifically beaten, he dropped everything and flew immediately
to Sioux Falls, TMZ reports. And the first time he ever saw his son in person
was when he was on life support, laying in a hospital bed. Just awful.

On Oct. 11, the boy’s family decided to have him taken off of life support,
and he died soon after. Ann reportedly made the decision to have his
organs donated to other people in need of transplant, a choice that Adrian
suggested and supported, according to TMZ.

So, am I understanding this correctly? He was in the area, on personal business, left, and upon "hearing the bad news", he rushed back?

And one more thing, when you thought it couldn't get any worse:


hollywoodlife.com...

As Adrian plans a heartbreaking trip to
Sioux Falls, South Dakota to attend his 2-year-old son’s funeral, a new report claims
the Minnesota Vikings running back
fathered a second secret love child with a waitress at a
Minnesota nightclub.

Adrian Peterson has a fourth child: a three-month-old little girl who lives
with her mother in Minnesota, according to a new report. Read on for more
details.

Adrian Peterson’s Baby Mama Secret — SECOND Secret
Love Child Revealed

Seems this sets the stage for lots of volatility, between him, both baby mommas, and all the child support being demanded.

The one child died of an alledged head injury, due to.shaking or possibly striking the child. None of the articles specify the approximate age of the injury, only that the other man, the one arrested, Patterson, was alone with the child when he started "choking on fruit snacks".

Of course, he denies causing any harm. However, just let me state, in an incident of shaken child syndrome, or a head injury that caused concussion or possible bleed, the child may well have been injured hours, even days, before. It quite possibly may have taken some amount of time for injuries to manifest themselves.

I would think any investigator worth their weight in salt would definitely begin looking into alibis for him, his exact location even up to at least a week prior to the childs' hospitalization.

To automatically convict Patterson, because of a previous history, would be extreme negligence, IMO.

He needs to be investigated, as if he were involved in the childs' death, in particular, because of this new event. All family should be considered extremely suspect in this childs' death, and not simply pick the easiest target.

Patterson may well be telling the truth, and be totally innocent, leaving a potential child killer free.

If this is the case, these incidences with these children will not stop, and this will not be the last we hear of this story.

www.usatoday.com...

"The injuries they found were head injuries," Clemens said. "It
was obvious to medical staff that abuse had taken place and
that those injuries weren't accidental."

Clemens said police believe the child's mother was "gone for
a short time, and that's when we believe the injury occurred."

At this point, only the autopsy, witnesses, and a detailed alibi from Peterson can be the only true indictment of Patterson.

If the injuries had occurred the day, or night before, even two or three days, it simply may have taken that long to become symptomatic. Many head injuries are cumulative, meaning, the effects from the injury build up over time.

This has the potential to be very explosive. Especially if the mother of the child has lied and covered up contact he had on previous days with the child to protect him. Not at all disbelieveable, as he is her money train.

Take him out of the picture, and she loses a large amount of financial support.

If she is, in fact, complicit, just WOW.

a reply to: Libertygal
Wow, nice catch. This indeed could be much deeper and darker than anyone imagined. If there is more to the other stories this recent one, him getting caught, may completely change how his life unfolds. Including the people or kids he has contact with.

a reply to: boncho
Indeed. He may well be the one that caused the death of the other child, and his presence is being covered up.

Subpoenaed phone records, showing his physical whereabouts, may well be in order. It is my understanding that they practice Monday thru Friday, and are free on weekends.

That being the case, it appears that child fell ill Wednesday, and died on Thursday, after being removed from life support, and his organs donated.

He was declared brian dead Wednesday.

As I stated, many head injuries are cumulative, and build up over time. It would not be improper to suspect this child may have possibly been injured the previous weekend, perhaps on Sunday day or night, and the symptoms merely took until Wednesday to manifest.

Many, many people fall, or strike their heads, getting a concussion or bleed, and do not present to the hospital for days, as the cumulative effect of the head injury builds up, and eventually becomes debilitating. This is due to a slow build up of pressure due to blood or swelling, on brain tissue. Blood is highly aggravating to brain tissue, much like salt on a wound. If left long enough, blood can actually cause brain tissue to necrose.

If he was choking from the effects of the head injury, it means he may have begun losing his reflexes. It is hard to believe he was even conscious, at that point!

However, the choking may well have been a totally unrelated incident that led to the discovery of the other injuries.

Either way, this child was not normal when the mother left "for a short time", if he already had injury.

If the injuries were that massive and that instantaneous, in other words, he did all that damage that day, in those few minutes, the child likely would not have made it TO the hospital.

An injury that massive, that sudden, would have resulted in a nearly instantaneous death, in other words.

The whole thing, in retrospect, is highly suspicious, IMO.

originally posted by: karmicecstasy
Anyone who says this is not abuse is living in the dark ages or went through this as a child so are rationalizing it because hey they turned out ok. I am all for a parents right to discipline their child. But this four year old kid got bruises all up and down his back and legs and arms. He was hit in the groin. And blood was drawn in multiple places. That is not discipline. That is a man getting angry at a child who can not control his anger. He went way to far. Who hits their four year old in the groin as discipline.

He certainly hit the kid pretty hard with a switch to cause scabs. Well my parents did the same to me minus scabs but I did have welts at times. I am not messed up mentally because of it and their use of switches did instill discipline in me as a child.

What this parent needs is education and not jail or criminal charges. The government has a responsibility to protect citizens even children but this case does not warrant criminal charges and him losing his job in the NFL.

How bout we just make him go to anger management for 6 months and put this behind him rather than ruining his career and his ability to raise his children?

What he did was wrong but not criminal. The kid will not suffer any long term damage from this and may even have learned a life lesson in the process.

a reply to: Libertygal

I wasn't able to read the other article in full does it mention why the mother didn't act earlier??

The prosecutor went to the grand jury twice to get him indicted. That makes me wonder about the whole situation.

It makes me sad to think anyone is OK with beating a 4-year-old child bloody. I can't imagine what beating a child bloody would do more than just giving him/her a good spanking.

I don't really have much else to say about that, sad.

a reply to: snarky412

I have to agree with you. We're living in a nanny state. I have a four-year old and he gets disciplined but never with anything but my hand. I've never caused a bruise or a drawn blood on him. He gets a good ass whoopin but it's with my hand. You're right, the "time out" chair doesn't work, but we still try it anyways. I'm sick and tired of folks trying to tell people how to raise their kids...any one ever says anything to me about how I raise my kids,, the next azz whooping won't be directed at my kids.

But, regardless, if Peterson hurt his 4-year old like this then he needs to hang for it. There's no excuse for bruising or cutting your child, no matter how awful or naughty they are. Trust me, my four-year old gets my blood boiling but I'd never hurt him like that.

originally posted by: boncho
I suppose the whole "well my dad used the whip on me so I can whip my kids" doesn't extend to "my dad raped me up the bum so it's okay..."

For all you that condone whipping kids, keep the last sentence fresh in your mind when you are doing it, because it's the same thing.

No it's not. Anything that leaves a person or child physically different from before the discipline took place is abuse. Internal bleeding, a broken leg or arm, etc... is abuse. Hurting a child in a way where they don't need hospitalization is discipline. Leaving marks on a child is not abuse. YOU may think it is, but who the hell are you? Remember, the child had a doctor's appointment. Adrian knew this. He disciplined his child in the way he saw fit, knowing the child was going to see a doctor anyway, so he obviously didn't think he did anything wrong. The minute we all start to judge people on what they do with their own family in the privacy of their own home is the minute I walk out of this country and don't look back.

If he went over the line, it's up to the laws in the state that he lives in to determine that. I don't want anyone judging me and the way I conduct my personal life. If I go over the legal line, the law will tell me, not you or anyone else and current laws should not bend immediately to public pressure. I'm sure you feel the same way. There are certain ways to amend laws and doing so immediately because of knee-jerk public opinions isn't one of them. If you want to see choir boys, go to church. If you think the NFL has them then you don't know anything about pro football.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have some football to watch.

a reply to: DeepImpactX

. If you want to see choir boys, go to church. If you think the NFL has them then you don't know anything about pro football.

So wait, does that mean that NFL players all hit their kids and that's why they are tough, or u can't be a tough NFL player unless u hit your kids?

I'm not sure what you're saying. What about the ones that don't, but they are on the O-line, myself I'd still consider them tough. Even tougher cause they save their aggression for the guys that can give them a go.

a reply to: DeepImpactX

It's up to other people to stand up for someone who can't stand up for themself, like a 4-year-old child. Beating a little kid bloody with a stick isn't discipline, it's abuse.

As a Vikings fan, this is devastating news.

As a person who has two daughters of his own, this is complicated to say the least. I used corporal punishment on my own two children, not with a switch, but with one good smack on a rear end with my hand. I did so as a last resort if I learned they were lying to me or did something willfully that they knew was wrong. Did it leave a mark? Most definitely it did, a red hand imprint right on the center of the rear end. I only ever had to utilize this strategy about a half dozen times while my children were growing up, because they knew what the punishment was for lying or doing something knowing it was wrong.

Some folks wouldn't agree with my methods, but that is not for you to decide. It was my determination as a parent to discipline as I saw fit.

What Adrian did goes well beyond what I believe to be reasonable. However, his statements indicate that this is how he was raised, and he believes that he is a good man, and that his rearing as a child made him the person he is today. Based on what I've read, I don't think that he realizes or realized that he had gone too far, up until the point he unintentionally caught his 4 year old in the scrotum. He had previously used switches on his other children as well, which I'm sure can also be said for many households across America.

We need to be able to move beyond this type of mentality, understanding that going too far with disciplining a child can be counter-productive and serves only to damage the emotional well-being of a child...in addition to the physical markings. Hitting a child until they bleed is wrong.

What do I think his punishment should be? I'll let the judge and jury decide. Whether it be jail time, probation, public service or mandatory rehabilitation, the goal should be to ensure that the best interest of the children is at the heart of the decision.