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originally posted by: Xtrozero
I live near Portland and Portland is a homeless friendly city, and so it is a magnet for them. With that said though I understand their plight it is a serious issue. Every corner has them with their nifty signs and you can not walk down any street without a group always there.
At some point a city needs to setup a camp of some kind because the main streets is not good for them nor everyone else. They already live in in rather nasty areas so what does the OP suggest?
originally posted by: LDragonFire
They say they are gonna try to come up with a plan to help the homeless.
Hmm livable wage jobs would fix this problem!
They should build a self sustaining community that grows there own food and manufactures textiles or light industry related to what they can grow. All voluntary and self governed they each get a share of whatever they sell. This absolutely doesn't support capitalism, but how long can we pretend that capitalism is a successful system?
originally posted by: Yeahkeepwatchingme
This topic has been posted numerous times here. Not Honolulu though. This is news to me. So far it's been rumors. Now it looks like the MSM is actually telling people.
Somehow I don't think the masses will be too concerned.
First they came for....
originally posted by: xuenchen
One of these days we will see suggestions like moving the homeless populations to semi-permanent camp areas.
Then somebody will get the bright idea to allow companies to try simple manufacturing or service staging in those camps.
Watch for this any time now.
originally posted by: dreamingawake
Not the first report of similar activity, other sources say L.A. and NC for example, are suspected of sending homeless to camp like facilities. Unfortunately, many will dismiss it because of "FEMA camps" being tied into it. To say the actions will go ignored, until it comes to their town, then it's likely too late. With the growing amount of homeless people it's not something to sweep under the rug nor send them off to other cities to "rid" areas of unwanted locals.
"...approved several measures that ban sitting and lying down on sidewalks in a popular area " reminds me of Santa Cruz mid 00's, California where I was nicely given a threat to be arrested for needing to sit down for a few minutes. Fun times.
originally posted by: Poppcocked
a reply to: ArchPlayer
So go and pick up as many as you can, bring em to your house and care for them.
You obviously care a great deal about this problem so im sure you will be more than happy to take my advice.
originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: ArchPlayer
Movng them to a toxic waste dump? What's next, killing them???
Pardon me?
Where does the article you quoted say that the homeless facility would be at a toxic waste dump?
www.kitv.com...
originally posted by: rickymouse
What! Free room and board in the nice climate of Hawaii just by acting like a homeless person? Maybe it's time to break out the old clothes and buy a ticket to Hawaii. Hopefully I don't have to live on the streets around all those tourists for too long. Minds a whizzing, hope they have open WIFI at that camp.
originally posted by: urmenimu
originally posted by: rickymouse
What! Free room and board in the nice climate of Hawaii just by acting like a homeless person? Maybe it's time to break out the old clothes and buy a ticket to Hawaii. Hopefully I don't have to live on the streets around all those tourists for too long. Minds a whizzing, hope they have open WIFI at that camp.
do you believe homeless people are "acting like a homeless person"? do you think its fun to be homeless in a resort economy where the lowest house on the housing market costs $500,000? do you realize there is an indigineous population on Hawaii? do you believe the purpose of life is to be a sleazebag as you suggest, or accept that the situation is more complex?
originally posted by: LDragonFire
They say they are gonna try to come up with a plan to help the homeless.
Hmm livable wage jobs would fix this problem!
They should build a self sustaining community that grows there own food and manufactures textiles or light industry related to what they can grow. All voluntary and self governed they each get a share of whatever they sell. This absolutely doesn't support capitalism, but how long can we pretend that capitalism is a successful system?
originally posted by: Yeahkeepwatchingme
a reply to: LDragonFire
As soon as that community is built they'll be dispersed or arrested on trumped up threats and charges. You cannot make your own way without the system intruding in some manner.
originally posted by: Yeahkeepwatchingme
a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
I'm sure lots of the material in the dump is toxic in some way. But I don't think the dump was specifically formed to handle hazardous or even radioactive materials.
originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
There used to be a dump on Sand Island.
Sand Island covers more than 500 acres. Do you think the dump covered the whole island? How big do you think the facility is going to be?
originally posted by: Snarl
If you've never enjoyed the first-hand experience, let me say, that the homeless people living on Honolulu are a major problem. You can't have anything nice if they're around. They'll steal it or piss all over it.
The homeless there are like a gang ... like those monkeys in India ... good for absolutely nothing, but protected from great offense by TPTB and political correctness. They 'hang out' in any area long enough and feel like it's their right to be there ... like they own it. The cops won't arrest 'em 'cause it's not worth the time, effort, and trouble. They'd be back a week later doing the same things anyway.
Those a-holes broke into my truck and ripped the entire dash out to steal a $40 stereo. Probably did well over a thousand dollars in damages and the passenger door was never the same again. I lost all sympathy for 'em and have recommended against selecting Hawaii as a vacation destination since (I wouldn't go back to Guam again either ... almost as bad).
originally posted by: AllSourceIntel
a reply to: ArchPlayer
Yes, a growing and concerning trend in cities and states across the nation. While I can understand the concerns of public safety and to a lesser extent, beautification, the method is rather Orwelian. As noted, many disregard because they see internment or FEMA camp and dismiss it as half-baked despite its validity. Though I think we can all agree, our conspiracy minds wonder if this is part of a larger test bed.
That aside, I think this is another example of Government waste, we should consider, for example, that the Government has much land, States and Federal. So, we need to ask, why are homeless not offered room and board in return for maintaining, taking care of, and working these lands? If any Government program would be of use, one such as this could work wonders. Also, if I owned a huge ranch, I would do this myself.
Good post ArchPlayer.
originally posted by: Xcouncil=wisdom
Finally!
I do think the homeless should be given a choice in the form of help they receive
If they want to work (many who I have met prefer handouts) then put them in the job programs
If they want a free ride then they should get two choices
A camp outside of the big city with their basic needs taken care of
The supplies needed and access to the large public forest land that has been set aside for undomesticated wildlife
I myself am about to apply to the later option, this place is crazy these days
x
originally posted by: xuenchen
originally posted by: LDragonFire
They say they are gonna try to come up with a plan to help the homeless.
Hmm livable wage jobs would fix this problem!
They should build a self sustaining community that grows there own food and manufactures textiles or light industry related to what they can grow. All voluntary and self governed they each get a share of whatever they sell. This absolutely doesn't support capitalism, but how long can we pretend that capitalism is a successful system?
Capitalism ain't the problem.
The Socialist/Progressive government policies are.
They are the failures that last for eternity.
originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: ArchPlayer
Movng them to a toxic waste dump? What's next, killing them???
Pardon me?
Where does the article you quoted say that the homeless facility would be at a toxic waste dump?
www.kitv.com...
originally posted by: Tangerine
originally posted by: stirling
Its now illegal to be a homeless person......that's the upshot of the matter.....
Where is it illegal to be homeless? Cite the law to which you refer. I don't know why people make wild claims and think no one will challenge them.
originally posted by: rbkruspe
a reply to: urmenimu
Yeah, homelessness isn't such a fun prospect. I'm only days from homelessness myself. That sort of humor isn't appreciated. Thank you for sticking up for common sense and reasoning. That sort of "humor" is part of what's wrong with the homeless issue in the US. People make light of it, ignore it, distort it, and are just glad it's not happening to them. Everyone is distancing themselves from anything to do with anything about reality they do want to face. I'm not too familiar with Hawaii or it's laws and this whole idea of camps, but it's becoming ridiculous that people can't find better solutions than to treat people like scum because of financial hardships that lead to homelessness. Or helping them get out of it. Sometimes people need a little kindness. When stuff happens, people show their true colors. People you thought cared, turn away, or they think it will turn out okay and won't happen.
Believe it or not, it does happen. Sometimes people run out of options.
It's happening to me. Everything I knew and loved will be gone, my safety and my chance at a future, being raped and beaten becomes a huge possibility. My mental health will suffer, it already is shaky as it is dealing with this situation. I can't relax, my anxiety is so high I cannot think about anything else, I panic, I wish to die at times. I'm alone. These are things I have to face whether I like it or not. Some people will tell me that's dramatic. I'm sorry but that's how it is. People are too sheltered from the truth of the matter. They assume too much. It's not funny. It shouldn't ever be. I'm not laughing.
originally posted by: Xtrozero
I live near Portland and Portland is a homeless friendly city, and so it is a magnet for them. With that said though I understand their plight it is a serious issue. Every corner has them with their nifty signs and you can not walk down any street without a group always there.
At some point a city needs to setup a camp of some kind because the main streets is not good for them nor everyone else. They already live in in rather nasty areas so what does the OP suggest?
originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: rbkruspe
Believe it or not, it does happen. Sometimes people run out of options.
Living in a cardboard tent on a sidewalk is better than living in a place where there are showers, toilets, and health care readily available in a centralized location?
Of course, for some, the notion of a homeless facility is synonymous with internment camp. The people who take advantage of the site will not be trapped there. Yes, there will be curfews. Yes there will be rules. I've never been houseless but I think that situation sounds a lot better than living on a sidewalk and seeing the looks of derision and resentment from passersby. Better than crapping on my "floor".
What do you suggest? Buy them a house?
originally posted by: OptimusCrime
Decided to not get involved in this topic. But hopefully they can fix the problem.
originally posted by: Celestial1
The homeless in Honolulu and many other areas of the island are a huge problem. They are not like the homeless community I was familiar with in areas on the mainland. As Snarl said, they are destructive, often violent and I'm sorry but filthy. When you walk down most sidewalks in many areas of Honolulu you must often walk into the street because they have set up camp with truckloads of belongings, LOTS of (stolen) shopping carts, makeshift shelters and bags and bags of rubbish. Many times I've seen mice, rats, roaches and the like infested in the belongings that are just everywhere. They literally just pee anywhere they please and defecate right along the public walkways as well. It is a truly filthy town. They have no respect for property either and yes, often act like they own the place. Drug use like meth (ice) is rampant and often fuels attacks on other homeless people, passersby, people who confront someone peeing right next to the picnic table they are eating at, anybody really. Certain public parks at times are filled with people camped out with enough belongings to fill a small apartment.
Don't get me wrong, there are also a lot of good people just down on their luck. Those are the people who take advantage of the many shelters, programs and services that are readily available. If you really don't want to be homeless you can make it happen here moreso than other areas I've volunteered at. Sadly, for so many here it has become a chosen way of life.
I just wish that they could realize that if they really want to live a free lifestyle such as homelessness, they could do it by
originally posted by: olaru12
originally posted by: Tangerine
originally posted by: stirling
Its now illegal to be a homeless person......that's the upshot of the matter.....
Where is it illegal to be homeless? Cite the law to which you refer. I don't know why people make wild claims and think no one will challenge them.
Google is your friend...
money.cnn.com...
www.la.unm.edu...
originally posted by: Tangerine
originally posted by: olaru12
originally posted by: Tangerine
originally posted by: stirling
Its now illegal to be a homeless person......that's the upshot of the matter.....
Where is it illegal to be homeless? Cite the law to which you refer. I don't know why people make wild claims and think no one will challenge them.
Google is your friend...
money.cnn.com...
www.la.unm.edu...
Here's a quote from one of the articles you cited, "Despite a lack of affordable housing and emergency shelter, many of these communities are implementing laws that ban homeless residents from sitting or lying down in public, loitering, sleeping in vehicles, and begging for money or food."
That's not a law that makes it illegal to be homeless, per se. I'll bet that law also bans you (I assume you're not homeless) from doing those things, too. I grant you that that law makes it extremely difficult to be homeless, however I'll bet that it does not make it illegal for someone to sit on a park bench, for example. It probably makes it illegal to sit on one after a certain time of day. I'm sure you'll think the distinction is petty, but it's not.
There are two problems: (1) what to do with the currently homeless and (2) what to do to prevent homelessness.
originally posted by: Tangerine
originally posted by: Xtrozero
I live near Portland and Portland is a homeless friendly city, and so it is a magnet for them. With that said though I understand their plight it is a serious issue. Every corner has them with their nifty signs and you can not walk down any street without a group always there.
At some point a city needs to setup a camp of some kind because the main streets is not good for them nor everyone else. They already live in in rather nasty areas so what does the OP suggest?
As you no doubt know, there are several categories of homeless people including those just down on their luck and needing a hand up, off-the-gridders (I don't know what else to call them), serious addicts and alcoholics, and the mentally ill. Some fall into more than one category. I happen to believe that everyone should have a place to live but there's obviously no political will to do that yet and it's complicated when dealing with homeless people in some of those categories. There are some programs (although probably not nearly enough) that those temporarily down on their luck can use to get a foothold and get back on their feet. However, the off-the-gridders aren't interested and the serious addicts/alcoholics and the mentally ill can't get it together to make the available programs work for them.
What's to be done with/for the serious addicts/alcoholics and the mentally ill homeless who can't or won't cooperate in anything that will result in transitioning into "normal" society? I'm not talking about them becoming stiff-necked drones but at least being able to live in an apartment without presenting huge problems for their neighbors?
On the one hand, rounding them up and transporting them to a "compound' is probably a violation of their civil rights. On the other hand, other people have a right to go about their business without being subjected to the behavior several people have described.
originally posted by: stirling
Its now illegal to be a homeless person......that's the upshot of the matter.....
No matter which way you cut it......its getting to be dog eat dog and devil take the hindmost.....
Those that can still support their lifestyle do so with little regard for those who are destitute.
We look down on these beings as failures and somewhat less than ourselves....so it will be easy to ostracize them further....But I am sure we all have felt the hot breath of the social juggernaught on the backs of our necks as we ran pell mell just to stay a little bit ahead........One slip, one months unemployment can dig a hole no working man can fill sometimes....
Its no wonder we have a drug and alchohol abuse problem.....its almost a given....and id be willing to bet you the computer models show the bosses, just what to expect from people when they are driven beyond their stress ceiling...
Its all been predicted and planned for.....the controllers are re engineering humanity into something far less than human....
originally posted by: Xcouncil=wisdom
Finally!
I do think the homeless should be given a choice in the form of help they receive
If they want to work (many who I have met prefer handouts) then put them in the job programs
If they want a free ride then they should get two choices
A camp outside of the big city with their basic needs taken care of
The supplies needed and access to the large public forest land that has been set aside for undomesticated wildlife
I myself am about to apply to the later option, this place is crazy these days
x
originally posted by: AphoticJoe
a reply to: ArchPlayer
Interesting article, thank your for the link and topic.
Some people save up for half or more of their lifetimes to vacation in such places. They want before they get old, reach obsolescence vis-à-vis a chance brush with the hedonistic or die, to experience paradise on Earth beneath palm trees rustling to a tropical breeze. Resort owners, travel agents, and the rest of the tourism industries make a killing on their dreams. Dreams the homeless (the poor) never showed up in; dreams their unclean persons would surely despoil.
Too bad.
This article simply highlights another example the plutocratic manifest destiny entitlement of the haves over the have nots--at any expense. It mustbe the right of the wealthy to accumulate further billions by luring the working poor or middle class on the vacation of lifetime! Who are these homeless subhumans to interfere with that kind of fantasy and wealth accumulation? Who are they? Why should anyone care?
You should. That's who.
I've existed on so many ends of society. The one constant no matter my station in life: the inability of the majority of Americans (I've encountered) to empathize with each other because of stereotyped hype and or ignorance and apathy: the racial, cultural, religious, social class, language, physical fitness level ... difference. Because someone is different, less successful, perceived as less valuable to the Machine; then they must suffer because sense of superiority says so.
To the segment that espouses the line: some people just aren't equal to others, born equal, etc. I can only respond: figure out quickly which segment of society classifies you as less than their equal, and hope they do not one day relocate you to a former trash dump.
originally posted by: ArchPlayer
originally posted by: rbkruspe
Living in a cardboard box or tent is better than living in a homeless facility controlled and dicated by a group of city administrators that don't give a damn and let the place go to pot. See most homeless shelters for more information. At least in the box or tent you are free, you are not being held captive, or dictated to with the craziest curfew hours that prevent you from seeking adequate employment. Some shelters make people leave at 5am. But you have to be already checked in by 9am and can't leave. What the hell is that? People are still adults. This is one step from a jail system. As a person that has never been in the situation you really just don't know how fcked up it is out there. Derison and resentment come in many different forms and I'm here to tell you most homeless folk do not look at others like that. They are too busy surviving the war to engage those types of thoughts.
And again, no one just goes around and craps the floor unless they got a mental problem. Most people are so conditioned to a toilet it is a hardship for them to go without it.
I'm sorry you experienced homelessness. I know that the obvious solution to preventing homelessness for most people is a living wage, universal healthcare, and adequate low-cost housing, etc. but what, in your opinion, is the solution to dealing with the serious addicts/alcoholics, mentally ill who are homeless? In your experience, what percentage of the homeless that you encountered were in those categories?edit on 11-9-2014 by Tangerine because: I don't know why this showed up as a quote from someone else. I wrote it.
originally posted by: Tangerine
originally posted by: stirling
Its now illegal to be a homeless person......that's the upshot of the matter.....
Where is it illegal to be homeless? Cite the law to which you refer. I don't know why people make wild claims and think no one will challenge them.
originally posted by: Stormdancer777
originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: ArchPlayer
Movng them to a toxic waste dump? What's next, killing them???
Pardon me?
Where does the article you quoted say that the homeless facility would be at a toxic waste dump?
www.kitv.com...
HI Phage, nice to see you
That doesn't look to bad to me,
originally posted by: Tangerine
originally posted by: olaru12
originally posted by: Tangerine
originally posted by: stirling
Its now illegal to be a homeless person......that's the upshot of the matter.....
Where is it illegal to be homeless? Cite the law to which you refer. I don't know why people make wild claims and think no one will challenge them.
Google is your friend...
money.cnn.com...
www.la.unm.edu...
Here's a quote from one of the articles you cited, "Despite a lack of affordable housing and emergency shelter, many of these communities are implementing laws that ban homeless residents from sitting or lying down in public, loitering, sleeping in vehicles, and begging for money or food."
That's not a law that making it illegal to be homeless. I'll bet that law also bans you (I assume you're not homeless) from doing those things, too. I grant you that that law makes it extremely difficult to be homeless, however, I'll bet that it does not make it illegal for someone to sit on a park bench, for example. It probably makes it illegal to sit on one after a certain time of day. I'm sure you'll think the distinction is petty, but it's not.
There are two problems: (1) what to do with the currently homeless and (2) what to do to prevent homelessness.