Transistor/ Permanent Magnet Combination

a reply to: WeAre0ne

That is why iron fillings produce lines around a magnet.

Iron filings produce lines because they they orient in the direction of the magnetic field and also turn into magnets themselves. Each with a north and south pole. Each north pole attracts the south pole of next filing, and so on. Like elephants grabbing the tail of the one in front. Each time you drop filings the "lines" will be in different places because the filings will fall in different places. The "lines" do not exist.

That is why the solar prominences often follow magnetic lines.

Same reason.

Also why polar auroras follow the Earth's magnetic field lines.

Same reason.

There are no spaces between the magnetic forces in a magnetic field. There are no lines of force. There is a field of force. The filings show the shape of that field.

My own experimentation has confirmed the existence of these magnetic streams as well, and their natural desire to form loops.

You measured the field strength and found it only existing along the lines? Interesting.

originally posted by: Phage
Iron filings produce lines because they they orient in the direction of the magnetic field and also turn into magnets themselves. Each with a north and south pole. Each north pole attracts the south pole of next filing, and so on. Like elephants grabbing the tail of the one in front.

You are explaining why the iron filings, and other particles, create chains. You are not explaining why the chains choose the path they have chosen.

originally posted by: Phage
Each time you drop filings the "lines" will be in different places because the filings will fall in different places. The "lines" do not exist.

That is not true. No magnet is perfect. Some areas of a magnet will be stronger than others, and that creates streams of magnetic force of various strengths, which form lines inside the magnetic field. In most cases iron filings will find the same paths over and over again.

That is because of one fact; Magnets and or magnetized objects will move (attract) towards the strongest area of magnetic force.

originally posted by: Phage
There are no spaces between the magnetic forces in a magnetic field. There are no lines of force. There is a field of force. The filings show the shape of that field.

Not true at all. In a perfect mathematical equation maybe, but not in the real world. There definitely are spaces between magnetic forces in a magnetic field, because the objects which form the magnetic field are not perfect.

You must not think of a permanent magnet like the ones on your refrigerator as one magnet with one solid field, because those magnets are really made of millions of tiny magnets clumped together at the atomic scale. Those tiny magnets that form the entirety of the permanent magnet are not all aligned perfectly and uniformly, so they do not create a perfect magnetic field.

The tiny magnets in the material of the refrigerator magnet will align themselves and form internal chains throughout the material, and those internal chains sum up to create strong streams of magnetic force. There are also many broken internal chains through the material which sum up to weaker streams of magnetic force. These streams all form the entirety of the magnetic field. Some streams stronger than others.

Iron filings will attract towards the strongest streams within the magnetic field, and externally complete the chain loop that has formed internally in the magnet's material.

a reply to: WeAre0ne

You are explaining why the iron filings, and other particles, create chains. You are not explaining why the chains choose the path they have chosen.

I thought I did. It's a matter of where they happen to fall. Chance. Drop them again and the lines will be in different locations.

In most cases iron filings will find the same paths over and over again.

No, they won't.

The tiny magnets in the material of the refrigerator magnet will align themselves and form internal chains throughout the material, and those internal chains sum up to create strong streams of magnetic force.

There are no streams. There is a magnetic field. Yes, it varies in strength. Smoothly, there are no defined lines.

originally posted by: Pilgrum
It's a long time since I bought a magnet of any sort but the old AlNiCo type permanent magnets used to be supplied with an 'armature' which is a ferromagnetic bar that 'short circuited' the magnet's poles IE maintained maximum flux density through the entire magnet which gave the magnet maximum life expectancy as well as reducing external effects in storage or transport.

Yes, those 'armatures' are also known as 'keepers'. They close the loops of the magnetic force streams, and once the loops are closed the dipoles which create said streams of magnetic force somewhat lock in place (and 'keeps' them in place). Once a loop is formed, it is hard for another stream to interfere with said loop.

Magnets like to attract to and or align with the strongest magnetic field. And magnetic strength decreases with distance. So when the dipoles create a perfect closed loop, they have no reason to align with any other field, because they have already found the strongest / closest field they will find. That is what causes the dipoles to lock in place when the loop is closed with a keeper. They just ignore all other external forces because those other forces are weaker and further away.

Otherwise, when the loop is not closed, the dipoles (which can be imagined as individual links of a chain) are constantly trying to form new chains, and they will reorient themselves with nearby dipoles (chain links) until they can form a chain loop. This makes them vulnerable to forming chains that are not aligned with other chains, and producing an overall weaker magnetic field, and the magnet gets weaker.

These internal workings of magnets are very understudied. You may have trouble finding this information.

originally posted by: Phage
I thought I did. It's a matter of where they happen to fall. Chance. Drop them again and the lines will be in different locations.

That is not true, and I can prove that experimentally. The iron filings will often follow the same paths / lines.

Essentially you are claiming that all magnets have a completely uniform magnetic field. That is preposterous.

originally posted by: Phage
No, they won't.

Yes, they will.

originally posted by: Phage
There are no streams. There is a magnetic field. Yes, it varies in strength. Smoothly, there are no defined lines.

Yes there are streams. That is all a magnetic field consists of. Streams. I agree, they are not always defined in all materials, because the streams are dynamic and can change when the dipoles of the object change orientation (if they can change orientation).

I think this is simply a matter of you not having access to some of the more advanced observations and studies of magnetic force. Current mainstream science of magnetism available to the general public is lacking.

a reply to: WeAre0ne

Essentially you are claiming that all magnets have a completely uniform magnetic field. That is preposterous.

No that is not what I am saying. I said the strength of the field varies. I said it varies smoothly. It does not have discontinuities. If you measure the field strength across it you will not find no force, then force, then no force. You will not find lines.

That is all a magnetic field consists of. Streams.

No. A field is a field. A gravity field is a field, no lines. An electrical field is a field, no lines. A magnetic field is a field, no lines.

Current mainstream science of magnetism available to the general public is lacking.

I see. How did you happen to come by it?

originally posted by: Phage
No that is not what I am saying. I said the strength of the field varies. I said it varies smoothly. It does not have discontinuities. If you measure the field strength across it you will not find no force, then force, then no force.

In that case, I agree with you. You are correct, there are no discontinuities in the field. Just a variation of weak and strong streams, with weak fields between them. At no point is there zero magnetic force in the field.

originally posted by: Phage
You will not find lines.

Yes you will find lines. The field consists of millions of magnetic force streams, strong and weak. Between the streams you will find weak magnetic force. Not complete discontinuities, but weak streams between strong streams which create the appearance of lines.

originally posted by: Phage
No. A field is a field. A gravity field is a field, no lines. An electrical field is a field, no lines. A magnetic field is a field, no lines.

That just means your knowledge of magnetic force is limited. You clearly don't fully know what a "magnetic field" actually is. You may even tell me magnetic force is made of virtual photons.... lol.

It's not really a field. Your accepted science / physics simply modeled magnetic force as a field to simplify the equations, and approximate what is observed in reality. But it being a field is not reality, that is just a model to help you understand and nothing more.

You must move beyond the accepted model, and do some more experiments and research. Very few have.

Thanks for that video, however, my knowledge goes far beyond what any youtube video, or physics lecture, or any current day physics book will ever provide.

originally posted by: Phage
I see. How did you happen to come by it?

I have been studying magnetic force for decades. All of my scientific research is based on and focused on the full understand of magnetic force. I have been doing experiments and making observations that you will not find in text books. My knowledge of magnetic force is vast. Some may even say occult.


By the way, that video you provided shows exactly what I have mentioned. You will see at some points in the video when the keeper is off the U magnet (when the field is stronger), or even on the ceramic magnets, the iron filings will snap back into place as the glass moves, after they have been moved by friction on the glass. They snap back exactly where they were, in the same exact alignment. That is because magnetic force is an array of millions of tiny streams of force, some streams stronger than others, and the iron filings are attracted to the strongest streams, and chain together in the stream, and create lines.