CIA tortured suspects to 'the point of death': report

Mods move if this is the wrong spot and I did a search and did not find the story.

The paper quoted one security source as saying the torture of at least two suspects, including the alleged mastermind of the September 11 attacks Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, went far beyond the waterboarding admitted by the Central Intelligence Agency. "They weren't just pouring water over their heads or over a cloth," the paper quoted the source as saying, adding: "They were holding them under water until the point of death, with a doctor present to make sure they did not go too far." A second source cited by the paper also spoke of the treatment meted out to Mohammed, who is in US military custody in Guantanamo Bay, as well as alleged USS Cole bomber Abd al Rahim al-Nashiri, who is also being held at the detention camp on Cuba. "They got medieval on his ass, and far more so than people realize," the source, said to be familiar with the still-classified accounts of the torture, was quoted as saying.

Link
I find this somewhat gratifying as I was just arguing with some military personnel about water-boarding being torture. They adamantly denied anything like this occurred....we violated international law and we get away with it.

a reply to: ParanoidAmerican

It's just terrorists right? They behead your citizens, you fly rendition flights and commit torture.

a reply to: EA006

Real Americans would not support torture of anyone for any reason. We claim to be the best and superior to others yet we are the same and worse.

originally posted by: ParanoidAmerican
a reply to: EA006

Real Americans would not support torture of anyone for any reason. We claim to be the best and superior to others yet we are the same and worse.

Real Americans will do what they have to do to protect his/her country.

a reply to: thesaneone

Torture does not protect us or make us any safer. If anything it creates more radicalism and endangers us in the feature.

originally posted by: ParanoidAmerican
a reply to: EA006

Real Americans would not support torture of anyone for any reason. We claim to be the best and superior to others yet we are the same and worse.

Exactly. It's all a big game. You do that to our guys we'll do this to yours but worse...

originally posted by: thesaneone

originally posted by: ParanoidAmerican
a reply to: EA006

Real Americans would not support torture of anyone for any reason. We claim to be the best and superior to others yet we are the same and worse.

Real Americans will do what they have to do to protect his/her country.

I'm a real American and I won't do that. I for sure wouldn't f*** with other countries' sovereignty to deliberately keep them in perpetual turmoil for my own financial gain and I most certainly wouldn't participate in activities that result in torture, death, and misery for as many as millions.

a reply to: ParanoidAmerican

Torture is the means of an evil empire.
Period.

originally posted by: thesaneone

originally posted by: ParanoidAmerican
a reply to: EA006

Real Americans would not support torture of anyone for any reason. We claim to be the best and superior to others yet we are the same and worse.

Real Americans will do what they have to do to protect his/her country.

Well, we used to say when I was younger that the enemy would run to us to surrender rather than run to the Soviets because we treated them better. We can do away with that and say we are just the same as any other evil empire.

Deal?

a reply to: thesaneone

Perhaps. But one had better know he is actually protecting his country before deciding to swim in the deep end. A grave difference exists between following orders without conscience and questioning their legality even if doing so risks insubordination. The ability to live with oneself afterward is often far better than the punishment for disobedience. However, once an enemy has been successfully dehumanized, the justification for just about any atrocity in the name of defeating him can run rampant.

To the point of death?
Guess they knew when to stop.

These tortured people have families...Word gets around, little ears are impressionable and guided by the emotional words uttered by the adults and there in a nutshell is your future terrorist. America seems hellbent on building a greenhouse to grow them worldwide!

originally posted by: ParanoidAmerican
Mods move if this is the wrong spot and I did a search and did not find the story.

The paper quoted one security source as saying the torture of at least two suspects, including the alleged mastermind of the September 11 attacks Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, went far beyond the waterboarding admitted by the Central Intelligence Agency. "They weren't just pouring water over their heads or over a cloth," the paper quoted the source as saying, adding: "They were holding them under water until the point of death, with a doctor present to make sure they did not go too far." A second source cited by the paper also spoke of the treatment meted out to Mohammed, who is in US military custody in Guantanamo Bay, as well as alleged USS Cole bomber Abd al Rahim al-Nashiri, who is also being held at the detention camp on Cuba. "They got medieval on his ass, and far more so than people realize," the source, said to be familiar with the still-classified accounts of the torture, was quoted as saying.

Link
I find this somewhat gratifying as I was just arguing with some military personnel about water-boarding being torture. They adamantly denied anything like this occurred....we violated international law and we get away with it.

I didn't see nothing.

a reply to: EA006

In the first Iraq war the army surrendered because they knew they'd receive good treatment...food, safety, etc. The war was over in 3 days for the most part. Now we are in a never ending war of which people are very angry and more likely to fight to the death. I'm not saying there are times we shouldn't torture because every soldier is trained in that specific situation to some extent but when you do...you don't get cooperation.

originally posted by: thesaneone

originally posted by: ParanoidAmerican
a reply to: EA006

Real Americans would not support torture of anyone for any reason. We claim to be the best and superior to others yet we are the same and worse.

Real Americans will do what they have to do to protect his/her country.

Up to and including the same thing the "enemy" does? That pretty much removes our moral superiority, doesn't it? If we're theoretically fighting to prevent monsters from taking over our country, how does being monsters ourselves protect us from that fate? And I haven't even addressed the issue of whether torture "works".

a reply to: ParanoidAmerican

The U.S. always gets away with breaking international law. When you have a powerful military and economic influence, who wants to tangle with that? We broke international law by invading the sovereign country of Iraq! No WMD's yet we still occupied that country for years. Bush, Cheney, Rice and Rumsfeld should have all been convicted of war crimes. Any other smaller country would have been held accountable.

a reply to: minkmouse

Exactly it only perpetuates the problem.

a reply to: WeRpeons

That is a very valid point. I think most presidents since FDR should have been.

a reply to: ParanoidAmerican
Maybe your right, why torture them, shoot them on the spot. I am tired of all the bleeding hearts, I just want to live in peace. I, like all other average Americans didn't do # to provoke these terrorists on a religious death wish, if they want to die I say oblige them.

originally posted by: WeRpeons
a reply to: ParanoidAmerican

The U.S. always gets away with breaking international law. When you have a powerful military and economic influence, who wants to tangle with that? We broke international law by invading the sovereign country of Iraq! No WMD's yet we still occupied that country for years. Bush, Cheney, Rice and Rumsfeld should have all been convicted of war crimes. Any other smaller country would have been held accountable.

Yes the USA invaded Iraq in 2003.
So did Australia, Poland, Canada and the UK.
Why are you not asking for the heads of those countries?