Edward Snowden may receive Swiss asylum - Swiss Government

a reply to: jajaja

Do you realise that practically all policies and even local level decisions are made democratically in Switzerland?

People there get to vote on decisions that affect them, that is democracy!

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: jajaja

Do you realise that practically all policies and even local level decisions are made democratically in Switzerland?

People there get to vote on decisions that affect them, that is democracy!

Yes, I am very aware of it.

Except before 1971 half the gender population only got that "democratic" power.

That is not long ago.

But hey, isn't America the bastion of democracy (even though it is a REPUBLIC, not a democracy lol).

a reply to: jajaja

Firstly I am in the UK, secondly, when I said 'democracy' in reference to Switzerland, I meant true democracy. Other nations forms of ''democracy'' I didn't comment on.

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: jajaja

Firstly I am in the UK, secondly, when I said 'democracy' in reference to Switzerland, I meant true democracy. Other nations forms of ''democracy'' I didn't comment on.

Since it concerns Snowden, who is a US citizen, on the run, from the worlds promoter of "democracy"; I think it is very relevent.

You commented about Switzerland being the holy of the holy in democracy, well, I was just pointing out some inaccurcies of recent historical facts concerning democractic issues such as, well, voting by all.

1971 was not long ago, hell, even the UK had begun the process of womens sufferage before the 1900's.

If you actually go to Switzerland, you may be supprised, there exists some very very poor areas, a lot of people wouldn't believe that given Switzerland is seen as the rich playground. It isn't all chocolate, clocks, alpine horns and banks.

originally posted by: jajaja

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: jajaja

Firstly I am in the UK, secondly, when I said 'democracy' in reference to Switzerland, I meant true democracy. Other nations forms of ''democracy'' I didn't comment on.

Since it concerns Snowden, who is a US citizen, on the run, from the worlds promoter of "democracy"; I think it is very relevent.

You commented about Switzerland being the holy of the holy in democracy, well, I was just pointing out some inaccurcies of recent historical facts concerning democractic issues such as, well, voting by all.

1971 was not long ago, hell, even the UK had begun the process of womens sufferage before the 1900's.

If you actually go to Switzerland, you may be supprised, there exists some very very poor areas, a lot of people wouldn't believe that given Switzerland is seen as the rich playground. It isn't all chocolate, clocks, alpine horns and banks.

Hey Guy - what you are referring to regarding poor areas of Switzerland isn't directly related to democracy, it's much more related to a capitalist society.

originally posted by: auroraaus

originally posted by: jajaja

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: jajaja

Firstly I am in the UK, secondly, when I said 'democracy' in reference to Switzerland, I meant true democracy. Other nations forms of ''democracy'' I didn't comment on.

Since it concerns Snowden, who is a US citizen, on the run, from the worlds promoter of "democracy"; I think it is very relevent.

You commented about Switzerland being the holy of the holy in democracy, well, I was just pointing out some inaccurcies of recent historical facts concerning democractic issues such as, well, voting by all.

1971 was not long ago, hell, even the UK had begun the process of womens sufferage before the 1900's.

If you actually go to Switzerland, you may be supprised, there exists some very very poor areas, a lot of people wouldn't believe that given Switzerland is seen as the rich playground. It isn't all chocolate, clocks, alpine horns and banks.

Hey Guy - what you are referring to regarding poor areas of Switzerland isn't directly related to democracy, it's much more related to a capitalist society.

Just enlightening people to some facts about Switzerland, not some dreamy fantasy some people have.

Switzerland is not a nice place, regardless of quality of life. This is where all the untaxed cash gets hidden. World wars were circled their borders while bankers sat inside and counted the dead's money. No one dare invaded in fear of having their credit revoked.

F'&K Switzerland. Nice people though

a reply to: jajaja

You can enlighten away - just remember the differences between democracy and capitalism (as well as similarities from a social point of view) and that using universal suffrage in Switzerland being granted in the 70s is a slightly poor historical argument to make. Just because women only got the vote in the 70s doesn't mean that they can't be a great democratic society today. Same with Australia - just because Indigenous Australians were finally allowed to vote after the constitution was amended in the same time period - does not mean our democratic government in the present is still crud or not (to be truthful here, it's more a question of politics and individuals - not the collective society)

It's like saying hey Germany was only reunified in 1990, as a democratic republic - therefore because they are relatively new to the party - they are a bad example to use for democracy.

I hope that made sense. I've only had two coffees today.

originally posted by: auroraaus
a reply to: jajaja

You can enlighten away - just remember the differences between democracy and capitalism (as well as similarities from a social point of view) and that using universal suffrage in Switzerland being granted in the 70s is a slightly poor historical argument to make. Just because women only got the vote in the 70s doesn't mean that they can't be a great democratic society today. Same with Australia - just because Indigenous Australians were finally allowed to vote after the constitution was amended in the same time period - does not mean our democratic government in the present is still crud or not (to be truthful here, it's more a question of politics and individuals - not the collective society)

It's like saying hey Germany was only reunified in 1990, as a democratic republic - therefore because they are relatively new to the party - they are a bad example to use for democracy.

I hope that made sense. I've only had two coffees today.

Well, being able to vote, kind of makes a democractic society, dunnit?

Can you give a good example of a democratic society where people are unable to vote?

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

F'&K Switzerland. Nice people though

Aye and pretty darn nice bread. And Hoovers. I love my Hoover

originally posted by: auroraaus

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

F'&K Switzerland. Nice people though

Aye and pretty darn nice bread. And Hoovers. I love my Hoover

Hoovers suck.

Well, it's kind of ironic you bring up baking and house cleaning equipment into this topic, given that women in Switzerland only got voting since the 1970s

a reply to: jajaja

I think you misunderstand me buddy - I was referring to your conversation with theabsolutetruth regarding Swiss women only being given the vote in the 70s. It came across as you were saying that because of this Switzerland is a poor example of democracy.

But if you want an example of a democratic society where people were unable to vote - heh - see democracy has been skewed much in the 20th century - I point you to East Germany and the Socialist Soviet Republics...

originally posted by: jajaja

originally posted by: auroraaus

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

F'&K Switzerland. Nice people though

Aye and pretty darn nice bread. And Hoovers. I love my Hoover

Hoovers suck.

Well, it's kind of ironic you bring up baking and house cleaning equipment into this topic, given that women in Switzerland only got voting since the 1970s

LOL!!!!! That's quite ironic isn't it? I love baking and house cleaning (to some extent...) but it is nice to have the opportunity to have my say in who runs the country or state or local government. Although having said that, I, like most Australians, had a hard time choosing at the last two federal elections because each party was as bad as each other. Hence we had a hung parliament back in 2010.

a reply to: jajaja

I know about Switzerland, I didn't say in any way about it being ''holy'' nor ''perfect''. I said it's good at democracy, which is a fact.

Kindly refrain from presumptions.

a reply to: auroraaus

Long overdue but nIce to see some are willing to stand against the empire.

purp..

*** F&K Switzerland. Nice people though. ***

Word. F&K that place.

Ask the American aviators held in Swiss internment camps in WWII how they feel about the Swiss.

That is exactly what I think. While Switzerland has a history of being neutral in the last two world wars, they were in no way neutral because they feel war is wrong. It was a sound business decision, and they profited from both sides regardless of the outcome. The Swiss banking industry was hurt substantially a while back when the US passed legislation that required many accounts of US citizens to be declared. It would not surprise me to learn that if Snowden was foolish enough to go there he would be either a)be arrested and turned over immediately after depositing any money he may have or b)have a black sack dropped over his head because Switzerland looked the other way after making that phone call to the US Embassy. I have a lot of family in Switzerland and it is a beautiful country but it isn't the yodeling that has kept the state intact since the 1200s. The Swiss will do what is best for the Swiss Confederacy and Snowden is a fool if he bites. I hope he stays put. a reply to: Agit8dChop

a reply to: auroraaus

To be fair, swiss banks cancelled most or all US Citizen and German bank accounts, not just Snowden's. The reasons were the continuous political harassment by German authorities and repeated high penalties coupled with credible threats by US authorities. As a US citizen you have to route your account over Singapour, Delaware, Ceymans or Hongkong nowadays.
If Snowden will be granted asylum it won't be a trap. Whether Snowden can be guaranteed asylum will be evaluated and communicated before moving him to Switzerland. He certainly won't receive asylum AND be handed over to US authorities. It will be one or the other. Most Swiss would welcome Snowden but at the same time see their government highly susceptible to blackmail and suggest he is better off in Russia. But i guess he will want to leave Russia anyway, who wouldnt? Of course the swiss will forget about Snowdens accusations: "I have never EVER seen a people more racist than the swiss jesus god they look down on EVERYONE. even each other." Now that he has seen Russia he might want to reconsider...

Snowden deserves a decent place that will let him live his life without fear (terrorism = creating fear) because he is a hero. Not a hero of the United States of America, but a hero of the PEOPLE of the USA. THAT is the difference people miss. Snowden is a traitor to the USA, its leaders and its government. But he is a hero to the people and I hope there are more individuals with the balls to do what he did. He informed the world of just how bad, how corrupt the government has become, and also showed that the PEOPLE of America are even targets...and therefore...the separation. Our government DOES NOT represent us, does not speak for us and the actions of our government in NO WAY represent the desire of the American people. And personally...our government DOES NOT REPRESENT my beliefs! Not in the least. I guess that makes me a traitor in mind...just not in action.

Time for a revolution! A revolution of action, not just of mind and mouth.

originally posted by: CriticalCK
a reply to: auroraaus

To be fair, swiss banks cancelled most or all US Citizen and German bank accounts, not just Snowden's.

I'm not sure if Snowden ever had a swiss bank account - but the account I mentioned being cancelled was Julian Assange's.