Member of Russian Duma speaks out - Ilya Ponomarev

I will also add this regarding love of communism:

My grandmother and grandfather spent 3 and 4 years in Mauthausen and Oswiecim concentration camps. For being Polish patriots. Then, after 1945, in the new free Communist world of Eastern Europe, they were sent to gulags for 5 years (a very small sentence). For the very same reason. Here they saw the great Communism in its entire glory.

My father and my mother, both hailing from szlachta (nobility) families, lived under that regime their entire lives. I had a "privilege" of living under it for measly five years when it was crumbling and going down already (late 80s).
It was really great. It was really fun. NOT.

It was a regime meant to make people into slaves, to destroy every value of humanity and integrity and replace them with love of Lenin, Stalin or any First Commissar of the National Communist Party that was currently at the steering wheel in your country.
We were poor, robbed of everything by our great Russian "comrades", and put in front for them to be used as a target practice (see operation "Wisla") in case of nuclear war with NATO.

Only now, after 25 years since the fall of communism, our country begins to get back on its feet and start living a modest standard of life. Yeah, it really was that great.

Putin is no different. He executes the same methods and has the same goals as Stalin, Breżniew, Chruszczow, Andropow et al, only tweaked to the modern world and current circumstances. And he will get what he wants, because he plays on the strings that affect anyone: Economy. EU doesn't want to fight for Ukraine because of money, and Putin knows that. He's bold and very, very focused on getting Ukraine back.

a reply to: bjarneorn

First let me say that I have all the respect in the world for Exathdra's views. We don't agree on a lot of things when it comes to Russia,but he makes the discussion interesting. I find his views no less important than my own. I would never want to live in a world where everyone agrees with everyone. No one would ever stand up and tell the truth!

Therefore what he has posted is not "a bunch of crap". He has posted his views and that is the beauty of our country,you get to say what you feel.

He took the time to read my wall of text and answer me back which is more than a lot of people would,but that is what makes the conversation with him interesting.

Though we may disagree on some points,we do agree on others. We both know that we need a strong America back and an involved citizenry.

I do disagree with Xcathdra on getting involved in other countries affairs. I don't think we have shown that we are able to handle it. And we don't really ever get anything FIXED. Iraq is a prime example of this. And Xcathdra, in answer to your question about who I was talking about when I said our government hasn't been truthful with us, I was specifically referring to Iran. The Shah of Iran didn't just walk into office on his own one day,our CIA put him in office. The Iranians knew this all along,the CIA finally admitted it last year. They got a democratically elected president removed from office and put in a tyrant. So much for us making things better in other countries. We don't care if we put Hitlers in office,so long as they go along with us on business and resources.

Such a shame.

a reply to: Jelonek

following return to power by a pro-Russian Janukowycz only showed them that investing more money and efforts into snatching Ukraine away from Russia is futile.

And yet they invested again like 5 billions to make next Maidan

US first of all cares about their own interests. Secondly "5 eyes nations".
Besides, all immediate gas/oil/money finance etc. They do care that neither Pan German or Pan Slavic civilization will ever rise as a competitor. Also no Pan Arab or Pan Turk.

originally posted by: Jelonek
That one guy stands up against vote in Duma is nothing impressive or important. Vladimir Putin keeps a quite large bunch of political opposition alive and well for them to give him a much-needed excuse of his entire government being "democratic". These are just sock puppets on payroll or people allowed to exist for the sake of appearances.

One person against Putin is impressive considering how Putin normally deals with people who cross / don't support him.

originally posted by: Britguy
Russians consider Ukraine a part of Russia. Been that way for years.

Ukraine, including Crimea, was recognized by Russia on Sept 2nd 1991 - by Boris Yeltsin.

originally posted by: Britguy
NATO wanted Ukraine "in" as this would allow them closer to Russia and destabilize the power balance in the region even further in favor of NATO. Putin won't have that. So his intervention on Ukraine is a preemptive strike.

Ukraine decided to work with NATO long before this mess occurred. Back in 2010 they met all prerequisites to join NATO as a full member. Yanukovych decided at the time to not join. At no point did NATO invade / threaten Ukraine for not joining. Russia on the other hand is threatening Ukraine over it. There was no real support to join NATO by the Ukrainian people up until Russia invaded.

originally posted by: Britguy
The current uprising might've been orchestrated by Russia as well to give them reason to intervene and install their own puppet government.

Of course they did. The Soviet Union and now Russia have done this for years. There were no ethnic Russian issues in Ukraine as Putin claimed. He failed to provide evidence to the UN, who specifically asked Russia to support the claims.


Ukraine is a sovereign nation and as such they can determine the best course of action on their own. Russia does not get to dictate to Ukraine.

it really is that plain and simple.

originally posted by: Jelonek
And he will get what he wants, because he plays on the strings that affect anyone: Economy. EU doesn't want to fight for Ukraine because of money, and Putin knows that. He's bold and very, very focused on getting Ukraine back.

So what then?

Let Putin have the Ukraine, the West forget the whole thing ever happened and then back to business as usual of buying Russian oil? Seems like a reward for foreign intervention on their part.

*Someone posted earlier that minding ones own business while focusing on their own problems at home and leaving other people to their own devices in their own country sounds like great advise and one that should be adhered to.

I wonder if the Kremlin is listening as well? *

a reply to: Xcathdra

I wonder if this is on the same lines as cameron arming the Libyan rebels before they started their deadly mission of destabilising Libya and destroying all the good things about that country - Gadaffi's personal acts excluded of course.

I don't honestly think the Russian speaking people of Ukraine wopuld not have sent urgent pleas to russia to come to their aid. Why does the Ukrainian government troops shell domestic blocks of flats etc apart frfom to kill russian speaking people?

I am on Putin's side on this one -I don't see he had a choice and what really gets me is that our politicians are so stupid as to push Russia away from Europe. The EU needs Russia on side and its a huge market we should be working to further our connections with. Its the USA that doesn't like our relationship with russia to get any too warm, because then we might all turn to Russia and leave the USA isolated which is short sighted because a trading block with the EU, Russia, USA and China and the satellite countries would probably be one of the strongest in the world. If Islamists do rise up it would like the countries together that would eventually have to stand up against this nonsense threat.

a reply to: Xcathdra

it really is that plain and simple

It is not that simple from the Russian POV.
Let me make some fantastic scenario.
Scotland votes to go independent in referendum. England allows it to go. Some military bases of England remaining there on lease. Let's fantasize that somehow Russia convinces Scotland that they have much in common, same Oil/Gas economy. Slowly Russian influence grows in Scotland. After 20 years Russia proposes that Scotland will form close Economical and Military Union with Scotland. It tries to install pro Russian goverment 3 times. At last Russia succeeding in organizing Civil war in Scotland between ProRussian and ProEnglish forces. I know that this scenario is fantastic, but that would be approximately how Russians feel toward Ukraine.
Also, all that time Scotland rewriting history. Painting all their history as being under English yoke. Inventing new Scottish language, which is almost like English, with funny Scottish accent and some archaic words which normal people forgot. It threatens who want to speak normal colloquial English like in England saying they are betraying long heroic history of Scotland trying to achieve independence from England etc.
Their craziness will even go as far as saying that they are the only true descendants of indigenous people of British Island. And those in England are mixture of Normans/Sax and who knows what else

a reply to: Shiloh7

I am on Putin's side on this one -I don't see he had a choice and what really gets me is that our politicians are so stupid as to push Russia away from Europe. The EU needs Russia on side and its a huge market we should be working to further our connections with.

But Putin doesn't want to work with the EU, as he had his chance when Yanukovych was going to join Ukraine with the EU, but Vlad wasn't having anything to do with that.

I don't honestly think the Russian speaking people of Ukraine wopuld not have sent urgent pleas to russia to come to their aid. Why does the Ukrainian government troops shell domestic blocks of flats etc apart frfom to kill russian speaking people?

And are they shelling the areas that were once held by the separatists...no.

And are they still shelling Russian speaking people that aren't in areas once held by separatists, but now under Ukraine control...no

Its the USA that doesn't like our relationship with russia to get any too warm, because then we might all turn to Russia and leave the USA isolated which is short sighted because a trading block with the EU, Russia, USA and China and the satellite countries would probably be one of the strongest in the world. If Islamists do rise up it would like the countries together that would eventually have to stand up against this nonsense threat.

Too bad Vlad doesn't see the world that way, as all he sees is his view of a cold war era Russia that is supposed to hate the west and everything they stand for. Too bad Vlad has decided to put on his blinders and only see Russia as the only superpower in the world, which is a fallacy all in itself.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

And are they shelling the areas that were once held by the separatists...no.

And are they still shelling Russian speaking people that aren't in areas once held by separatists, but now under Ukraine control...no

Yes and yes.
youtu.be...

It seems both sides shelling whatever they feel appropriate with little consideration about civilians.

a reply to: SLAYER69
To be honest, nothing.
It's not like I cry over this issue.

Moreover, I think it's ballooned to massive proportions whereas it's no different from other countries operating within their areas of interest.

a reply to: kitzik

The US shares a border with Russia and it has never been a real issue since the collapse of the Soviet Union.

The problem with your scenario revolves around the main key issue with Ukraine.

It is a sovereign nation and as such can determine themselves who they have relations with and the nature of those relations.

NATO demanding Ukraine to join is as stupid as Putin telling Ukraine they can't join. The issue is NATO has not made the demand where Russia has.

Again, the decision is Ukraine's, not Russia's.

Every single action Putin has made since this started has had the result of creating the opposite results he wanted. The more aggressive Russia gets the more he is going to push nations towards the West / EU. The more Putin interferes in Ukraine the more NATO is going to increase there presence in NATO countries bordering Russia. The more Russia violates the airspace of other nations with military equipment, the more they will see the reverse from those nations with intercepts.

Its one thing to have a war between Ukraine and Russia.

A war between Russia and 28 nations, not to mention the allies of those nations outside of Europe, would put Russia at a disadvantage.

People invoke nukes for Russia. The issue there is Russia is not the only country with nukes. Fallout crosses borders, affects water and food supplies, population centers etc etc.

A war with Russia would result in Russia loosing the markets of a lot of countries. China, with their economy tied directly into the US economy, is not going to throw it all away because Putin wants to do his Jets and Sharks routine on the world stage.

Finally - By Russia acting in the manner they are, how many nations are going to want to deal with them after seeing whats occurring in Ukraine.

The 64k dollar question then becomes where does Russia stop. If Putin has gone off the deep end, and I think he has, is Ukraine enough? With the number of lies Putin has told can bordering countries "trust" Russia to leave them alone?

The 64k dollar question then becomes where does Russia stop

a reply to: Xcathdra

Putin and Russia will stop invading territories where will be non "russian mentality" inhabitants. It is fuzzy border, but i can't explain it better. Certainly no Poland or such. But Ukraine may be reduced to the size of Chech Republic.
And they will be happy to let those Ukrainians go cleaning toilets in Germany.
As an illustration this people (what is called Zapadenci) will be let free to Europe youtu.be...

a reply to: kitzik

The point behind the question was to demonstrate the military response that is going to be coming should Russia set out on conquest.

He will no doubt end up being poisoned with polonium 210 in a nice cup of Russian Starbucks STFU

a reply to: TritonTaranis

He will no doubt end up being poisoned with polonium 210 in a nice cup of Russian Starbucks STFU

Prolly you right, cause McDonald is already banned in Russia (not healthy enough for Russians) official explanation.
www.theguardian.com...

a reply to: Xcathdra

You can't trust any of the people in politics. I sure don't trust our president and half of congress.

a reply to: Xcathdra

No, one person against Putin is not impressive in this case. Why, I wrote earlier.
When we talk about the likes of Litwinienko, that's another matter but he was a high profile dissident with spy background, hence a high profile target.

What is here you presented is nothing extraordinary. Why? Read what I wrote. Read and *understand*.

I, for one, am fully aware what will happen to Ukraine. It will be taken into Russian orbit as an "independent" republic. Maybe Putin will leave some of it intact, for the sake of appearances. West wont do a thing, because of money. Money is the name of the game now more than ever. Wars are costly and hurt economy. everyone wants to make profit without too much hassle, and Ukraine has nothing to offer for the West so nobody from there will sacrifice anything for it.

originally posted by: SLAYER69
*Someone posted earlier that minding ones own business while focusing on their own problems at home and leaving other people to their own devices in their own country sounds like great advise and one that should be adhered to.
I wonder if the Kremlin is listening as well? *

I wonder if the Washington is listening as well? But I digress.

Like I said, I have firsthand input from Ukraine and Russia and I know both of these countries well.
Putin has his reasons to invade and annex Ukraine, and the uproar generated in the West with relation to this act amuses me to no end. When US or NATO invades or meddles with other countries' affairs, it's all well in the name of democracy and love. When Putin broadens his country's areas of influence he's the evil one.
I don't defend him. But on the other hand I understand his motives. He's a brilliant politician and very careful and far-seeing strategist.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
Ukraine is a sovereign nation and as such they can determine the best course of action on their own. Russia does not get to dictate to Ukraine.
it really is that plain and simple.

I understand you fail to see how much of money does Ukraine have owed to Russia, and how many economical ties are between these two countries.
Ukraine is under influence of Russia, was under that influence all the time and now will be more than ever because of reasons I posted before.
It really is that plain and simple.

a reply to: Xcathdra

"While the US has provided money to Ukraine, Russia has sent in military support."

I don't see the difference. You can buy a private military with money. Doesn't have to have a flag on their shoulder to be a military for a nation... Just weapons in hand and a mission to follow is enough to call it a military operation. And guess what? Money can buy all of that. So don't think for one second, one side is "better" than the other.

Picking sides is the job of the imbecile.