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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: WarminIndy
Well you're just all over the place aren't you!?
This thread is about Cain not being Adam's son, but Satan's. It's about whether or not real live "fallen angels" had sex with real live girls, tainting "God's" human blood line, thus justifying God purging the planet through a flood. This same logic is being used by Christians to justify God telling Moses and his ilk to go and kill the inhabitants of neighboring towns and cities, because of angelic blood.
It's the same logic that allowed people to believe that Mary was a virgin who was impregnated by an "angel of the Lord" and the same logic that Paul used to urge women to cover their hair, "lest the angels".....
But we know better than that today. Adam and Eve are mythological, not historical characters. Fallen Angels weren't physically raping earth girls, who were giving birth to giant monsters, and so "God" decided to flood the joint. No. Just NO!
Jesus, if he existed, wasn't the child of an angelic being, or spirit being. Like everyone else, if he existed, had an earthly mother and father. He was no literal son of God any more than the pharisees were literal sons of Satan. I am no more or less a "child of the Most High" than Jesus was or you are.
So, in answer to your question, I am no more or less a god than Jesus was or is a god.
By the way, Psalms 82 wasn't written by David.
Yes, the Psalmist is correct, everyone is a spirit, but under whose authority?
While we are at it, let's talk about the genocide among Native Americans, in the name of the Great Spirit and Wankan Tanka or other spirits they worshiped. You can't cherry pick history.
It's the same logic that allowed people to believe that Mary was a virgin who was impregnated by an "angel of the Lord" and the same logic that Paul used to urge women to cover their hair, "lest the angels".....
I understand your disbelief because it is very difficult to understand with your mind indoctrinated by other beliefs.
Jesus' mother Mary was not impregnated by an angel. I see no bible that states that. Mary was reported to have conceived by the Holy Ghost (God Himself) and not by any other spirit.
First of all.there was already a superstitious precedent set, that angels can impregnate women. No one would have believed that GOD himself would have impregnated an earth girl. There is no prophesy of God himself incarnating as his own son, supposedly. Any such claim by Mary would have been met with a conviction of blasphemy immediately.
Indoctrinated does not necessarily mean the first teachings of any sort of anything. It also references many teachings you have acquired in your life.
You must have been taught that Jesus existed with God as the Word (Logos) before He became Jesus? He did cite remembrance of preexistence with his father.
He did cite remembrance of preexistence with his father. I understand that naturally there was a substance change from celestial to terrestrial and from the celestial to the celestial realm.
There is only one Holy Ghost (Spirit) and that is God the Creator. So how could a created angel even be mistaken as the Holy Spirit?
Daniel 4:17 This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.
Jeremiah 4:16 Make ye mention to the nations; behold, publish against Jerusalem, that watchers come from a far country, and give out their voice against the cities of Judah
originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: AlephBet
Apart from it being the other way around. Cain was the firstborn Son of Man (Adam means Man), and in effect he belonged to God and was his son. And Abel didn't have the better sacrifice, he simply got all the attention from God, perhaps because his parties were wicked and partly because God invested tons of time in trying to convince him to quit his blood frenzies. For at that point, all life was sacred, and in effect, Abel was the first killer. A story goes that the real reason behind Cain killing his Brother was that Abel killed Cain's pet goat.
Jesus, if he existed, was a mere human man. He wasn't God incarnate or God's breath any more than you or I. I don't subscribe to the trinity, however, the LOGOS as postulated by Plato and expounded by the Essene and Therapeutics, as well as the "name of God", is embodied in a 4 letter word, not 3 letters.
Preexistence and reincarnation were both espoused by Jews and early Christians, Gnostics and Kabbalists. It's no surprise that Jesus' teachings would also promote preexistence and rebirth.
What I find offensive, is men in fancy dresses, pretending to be the bride of Christ, telling men and women about how they should be addressing their gender roles, according to their personal superstitious take on ancient mythology.
What happens to you when you die? Have you sat and contemplated what nothing could possibly be?
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
We had no preexistence before our conception.
originally posted by: AlephBet
originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: AlephBet
Apart from it being the other way around. Cain was the firstborn Son of Man (Adam means Man), and in effect he belonged to God and was his son. And Abel didn't have the better sacrifice, he simply got all the attention from God, perhaps because his parties were wicked and partly because God invested tons of time in trying to convince him to quit his blood frenzies. For at that point, all life was sacred, and in effect, Abel was the first killer. A story goes that the real reason behind Cain killing his Brother was that Abel killed Cain's pet goat.
Any references to that mess?
There were the Watchers, a small group of angels which did come down to earth. They left their abode for an earthly one. They were chained and awaiting final judgement. Then there is their offspring which they produced during the 1500 years or so they were here, they are the Nephilim. It does not say if they reproduced or even could. They were killed.
Then there are the tribes of nephilim encountered in the promised land way after Noah's time. If the Watchers were chained, and their offspring all killed off by the flood, where did they come from? Either they survived the flood, some Watchers evaded confinement, or a new batch of Watchers left their Angelic places. The first two options are impossible because that would make God less than omnipotent.
Also from your chronology, you state the Angelic wars were before Adamic times and all were dealt with. You left out their leader who got them to rebel, he was next seen working in the garden of Eden, if all were defeated and cast into chains of darkness, how is Satan in the Garden of Eden?
Also in Revelation there is the... "woe to you of earth and sea because the devil has come down to you in great wrath because he knows his time is short"
In the minds of the early Chinese people, the dragon was a god that embodied the will and ideals of the Chinese people. It is said that the dragon is a large-scaled reptile, which can become dark or bright, large or small, long or short, and fly into the sky in the spring and live underwater in the fall. It seems that the dragon is capable of doing almost anything.
There are also nine ways the Chinese have traditionally represented these dragons, each one revealing a different dragon characteristic. There are dragons carved on tops of bells and gongs due to the beast's habit of shrieking when attacked.
A second type is carved on the screws of fiddles since most dragons are fond of music.
A third is carved on tops of stone tablets because of dragons' love of literature.
A fourth is found at the bottom of stone monuments since dragons can support heavy weights.
A fifth is placed on the eaves of temples since dragons are always alert to danger.
A sixth appears on the beams of bridges since dragons are fond of water.
A seventh is carved on Buddha's throne since dragons like to rest.
An eighth is placed on the hilts of swords since dragons are also capable of killing.
The ninth is carved on prison gates since such dragons are fond of quarreling and trouble-making.
Do you believe that sexual intercourse creates a soul? Does a soul emerge from sperm and egg? If so, wouldn't rape produce a demon?
Dragons are fond of music, they can kill and they are fond of quarreling and trouble making. This doesn't seem to be coincidental of the very things that Enoch describes. Clearly something was going on in ancient days if the same ideas are expressed.
The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.
He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.