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Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
Quote: "overwhelming message from these ancient belief systems seems to be that salvation is through oneself and whereas Jesus teaches salvation through him".
Well is it Jesus that said this? Are you sure? Could it possibly be the Priesthood that said that Jesus said this much later on in order to have more control over the Laity?
Here - let me quote Jesus: "The Law is in Every Living Thing. You find it written in the grass, in the trees, in the river, in the mountain, in the birds of heaven, in the fishes of the sea, but seek it chiefly in YOURSELVES. If those who lead you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the Kingdom is INSIDE of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to KNOW YOURSELVES, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the Sons of the Living Father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."
-The Gospel of Thomas
Originally posted by saint4God
John 3:16 - "For God so loved... Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed... The word of our Lord.
Originally posted by nimrods son
since the teachings and rituals of freemasonry are based on ancient mystery religions such as Zoroastrianism(sp?), Jewish Kaballah, Egyptian Deity worship (isis, osiris, horus trinty etc) and since the overwhelming message from these ancient belief systems seems to be that salvation is through oneself and whereas Jesus teaches salvation through him then I would have to say put me down for a no.
Originally posted by Bondi
What happens if I believe God is our creator, but think Jesus was the head of a religous cult taking advantage of good teachings and the vunerability of a religions followers to gain a better social standing and a better job than a carpenter? hyperthetically
Would I only be halve condemned
Originally posted by saint4God
Answers could include 2 Timothy 2:10: Therefore I ...
Revelation 20:11 "And I ...
Not my words,
Jesus states through him these sins can be forgiven. I would like to know what you think though.
Sorry hope I am not being stupid here but who is "I" a bloke, women, child, prophet, deciple who is it saying these things.
Originally posted by Bondi
Sorry hope I am not being stupid here but who is "I" a bloke, women, child, prophet, deciple who is it saying these things.
Originally posted by Bondi
Why not use your own words, many a critic would claim people quote scripture cause they don't know the answer. Or at least write the scripture in your interpretation of it so i know the meaning you are trying to put across.
Have to admit I have never really seen the point of quoting scripture, always thought the meanings were developed personally, and each would find different meanings in every passage. Wouldn't be the first time I was wrong though.
Originally posted by Bondi
I suppose what I do not understand is that surely it is the action of a being that should determine the entrance to "heaven" and not their belief. Sounds funny, what I mean is, if I live my life every day without sinning but do not believe in Christ, I take it I wouldn't make it through the gates, but if I live my life taking things for granted but as a believer, I can get in to the after life due to my sins being forgiven through Jesus and my believe in him.
Originally posted by Bondi
I have been called a heathen, a satanist and all sorts by supposed "Christians" because I choose not to follow their faith.
Originally posted by Bondi
I live a lot more Christian life than they do. I thought the good book states to love thy neighbour, not pick and choose.
Originally posted by Bondi
Maybe I see things a little simplisticly, but I'd rather get the simple right first than worry about the complicated and get nothing right.
Originally posted by Bondi
I will not find my creator in your book, but I will find ways to meet him by what it teaches in the way to live my life through the fables it tells, and that goes for any religous book on the shelf.
Please don't think I mean anything detrimental to the bible, at the end we will live our lives in the same manner, I just wont kneel infront of anything and call it god, as the ten commandments asks.
On that point you may be able to answer a question for me, I tried asking my Religous Ed teacher when I was at school but it just got me suspended, very christian and forgiving .
Originally posted by Bondi
How can a Christian go into a church to pray when there is a statue of the crucifix and/or mary (not sure if that would still be a christian church with mary in it?) when it says you can't make any image of what is heaven on earth, which is where they both are i would have to presume,
Originally posted by Bondi
and you cannot worship any idol other than god, which jesus is not on his own, he is the son of god and only when the trinity is united do they form god (again i think that's right) therefore no one know's what god looks like but yet people pray to the cross, crucifix and the many man made symbolisms of god.
Originally posted by Bondi
And if you wouldn't mind, could you answer without the scripture
Originally posted by Bondi
And once i know who I is I'll go back to the question you asked me.
Originally posted by nimrods son
since the teachings and rituals of freemasonry are based on ancient mystery religions such as Zoroastrianism(sp?)
Egyptian Deity worship
Originally posted by saint4God
Leveller, as far as 'arrogance' goes, I subject myself to God and do as he says in John 3:16. This makes me arrogant? Is his words here not a promise? Clarify please.
Originally posted by Leveller
Where do I call you arrogant? Where do I infer that you are arrogant?
I believe I stated that Freemasonry would be arrogant if it claimed to offer Salvation.
Originally posted by Leveller
You quote a passage from a book of religion. Freemasonry is not a religion. There is no comparison.
Originally posted by saint4God
Not saying you were calling me arrogant, but that I was arrogant in belief because I feel salvation could be granted. Sorry I'm got tangled in semantics, am I making any sense?
Second question though, could you address?
"...I subject myself to God and do as he says in John 3:16. Is his words here not a promise?"
Freemasonry is based on Jewish Kaballa? I'd like to hear more from someone who practices it. Could someone expand on the similarities/differences to Christianity?
Originally posted by saint4God
Freemasonry is based on Jewish Kaballa?
Are Freemasonry and Christianity incompatible?
Yes 1111
No 12930