Low Income Does Not Equal Low Skill/Intelligence

Alright, just some thoughts here. In the never-ending conversations about topics like minimum wage, living wage, etc, the notion of 'un-skilled workers' comes up again and again. Usually when people are saying things like, 'why SHOULD un-skilled workers make enough to live comfortably?' And they will also say things like, 'why don't these people actually learn a skill so that they can make more money.' First of all, let's be clear on what we mean when we say 'learn a skill.' We mean 'get a degree.' Intelligence itself means little to nothing in this society. Degrees matter. This is the internet, and people can and do say this all the time, so take it how you will. But I am honestly a very intelligent person. Although I really don't say or think this hardly at all anymore, because there is no real outlet for my intelligence so it has become rather meaningless and insignificant. How I originally developed the notion of myself being intelligent was simply at how much easier school was for me than it was to other people. Now, I feel because of this, I developed a pretty #ty work ethic when it came to school. I enjoyed being known as the guy who never did anything or paid any attention and still got A's on everything.

Unfortunately, when I got to college, the same attitude kept up. With the same results really, I would most always get A's on tests and papers, and my grade in the class would depend on how homework-based the class was, because I wasn't really doing homework. At a certain point I stopped going, and here I am. I've since got a job working retail. And it's fine for the time being, I like it alright. My current situation doesn't require all that much money, so it works out okay. Now, I do feel having a job, combined with just getting older, has really helped me to develop a sense of responsibility that was lacking before. And so I do plan on going back to school, and feel that sense of responsibility will serve me well in actually doing the work.

But my point is this. I really am a very smart person. I could do all sorts of things, and do it well, for that reason. But I don't have a degree, so it's irrelevant so I just tried to find a job wherever I could. So, people act like people who have low-income jobs are just unskilled morons. And that's just not the case, certainly not all the time. I'm very smart, but that doesn't mean anything. There's no way to demonstrate that intelligence and then get a good job as a result. If you don't have a degree, you just try to find a job. That doesn't make you a moron. So all these people saying 'learn something' just need to think. At least understand that what you're saying is you need to get a degree. Which some people fully support our current system and are ok with that, but others think it's a superficial evaluation of our worth, and wouldn't be so comfortable with that being what they are saying.

I was naïve when I was younger. Everyone knew that I was very smart. And I just thought, it's obvious I'm smart, everyone knows, it's impossible that I won't be able to be successful. Given my intelligence, I'm obviously going to be able to be an asset in a job situation where I can make pretty good money. I didn't understand that your intelligence honestly means nothing, only your degree does. Now I am going to go back to school, and with my newfound sense of responsibility I feel that I will actually do the work and therefore be successful. And then I should be able to get a good job. But it will be because of my degree, and have nothing to do with my intelligence.

Great rant, the older i get the more i realize is its not what you know, its who you know, inteligence does not equate to higher paying job.

It's not always skills that are lacking it's work ethic. Not saying that's the case with you but I have seen it before. Many young kids come into a job with entitlement on their mind.

Some intelligent folks didn't get a degree because they didn't want to spend the majority of their lives paying off a student loan in exchange for a slip of paper that doesn't guarantee a job.

Without arguing with any of the points raised the opposite is also true.

There are many people with useless degrees in various subjects because they can't get the job in the field they studied in.
There are people who are not incredibly intelligent but inherited wealth and family connections have got them into the positions they inhabit. Life is pretty unfair at times.

I regret getting the degrees I have. I am glad I set a good example for my children that they need to have good attendance and do homework well.

Beyond that its a money trap. Most degrees are in feilds will never pay enough to justify student loans.

Of course low income does not equal low skills/ low intelligence.

The majority of jobs being offered in America today are low pay, low skill, low intelligence level jobs.

When you have PHD, Graduate Assistants, Teacher's Assistants, Doctorate recipients working at fast food jobs because that's all the jobs that are out there, then it's a problem. Then the majority will run into the Ivory Tower Elite when they get their burgers for dinner.

I say forgive student debt like we forgive gov cronies.

sorry, my phone is acting up.

originally posted by: Hoosierdaddy71
you are also looking at the situation backwards.a low paying job does not measure the skills of the employee.the pay reflects the skill that is required to do the job.you do not need a masters degree in science to turn off the French fryer.

a reply to: TheJourney

I never planned on going to college, I took a few classes just for self learning reasons that I paid for in full. I have two attorney friends who both have enough loans between them, that even with their very high paying jobs, they won't be able to enjoy it for 20 years. That's not my idea of what life is.

I make DECENT money, not anywhere near my friends, but I own my own home and a car paid off in full. Me and the wife also have a dog

I completely agree a degree isnt' everything, neither is money, neither is anythign really. I have a very good friend who always wanted to be a mother, honestly. Not a 16 and pregnant mother, she just always wanted to be a mom. She has 5 kids, no high school diploma, a very low paying job, and is one of the happiest people I know.

Whatever makes you happy is what matter, some people want money, some want diplomas, some want a family, I always wanted a house, to each their own

I have a degree in information technology. People who know me regularly comment on how intelligent I am, how I am unique and profound thinker. I have conversations with people on a fairly regular basis about philosophical issues and find that many of my friends - save a very few - have a hard time following my train of thought, though I have a clear picture of where I'm going.

I am self employed and my wife is a substitute teacher. We drive old vehicles (my current truck purchased for $1500usd at about half blue-book value). We live in an old house in the country. We have a garden. On an annual basis, we earn less than most people spend.

We have zero debt. (Just a few moments ago I zeroed out a credit card that we occassionally use for emergency and out-of-the-ordinary situations.)

We live this way because we choose to. We have thought long and seriously about our lifestyle. I refuse to use my breath, blood and very limited time on this planet to further fund the bull541+ rat race that is this economy and culture. We enjoy life and each other. We have time to breathe.

I am certain that if half of the citizens of the United States lived like I do, the entire economy would crater. And I am, also, certain that this would not be a bad thing.

I like to flatter myself with the idea that the reason I do not have a high income is because I am too intelligent to be a part of the scam.

A College degree does not mean your intelligent. It means you went to college and passed, dumping a lot of cash in the College's pockets, money that pays teachers and workers salaries.

I know people working at jobs at ten to twelve bucks an hour that are doing well. They live within their means. They inherited a house or purchased it cheap years ago and it is all paid off. They are by no means dumb, many are smarter than college grads with all the bells and whistles. They are satisfied with living simple and have little stress and no debt. Some still qualify for the food card if they are married and have children.

Just because someone doesn't bow down to consumerism doesn't mean they are dumb. Just because some people want to earn an honest living doing things that are necessary instead of conning people to do something so they get a commission or huge salary doesn't mean they are dumb. Now what does smart mean, does it mean you need to be a deceiver and overpaid for what you are producing? It seems that we have formed a society where those who achieve wealth and status are considered smart.

That's what we have folks, a very naive society.

Exactly it does not equal that.

On Degrees-
Except now days degrees can amount to nothing. If anything will let the prospective employee have a better chance than someone with just a diploma to be hired in what used to be a starting job position/service job/what have you*. A growing amount of people are having to take the "low skilled jobs"*(demeaning term) available when nothing else is.

Degrees became nearly useless because of being more accessible by not only loans which drove up college costs, and college more encouraged by families even to types who were not "college material" so to speak. Not even to mention seemingly everyone picking the same career choice at you. Too much competition+ not enough jobs(companies leaving to overseas, etc)=mass fail.

I'll tell you a funny story about the "educated".

My oldest brother was a born engineer. He tore apart everything from the time he was 4 years old, to see how it worked. He was an electrical genius by the time he was 12-13. He fixed everybody's broken TV's and other electronics. He was a 8th grade drop out. Later in life, he got a job in the mines building equipment. As it turned out, he knew more about fiber optics and all other electrical problems that the mine was having then the college educated. He made them all look like fools. When the companys owner saw him work, he mentored my brother and pushed him to get some corny BS online degree so that he would be "qualified" to work in such a high position. I asked him if he learned anything and he LOL and said nope. Anytime there is a problem that the educated minds cannot solve at other companies, he contracts to go and fix it for them. He is widely known. When all else fails, they call my brother. Those black-framed glasses wearin' nasal whiners get all up tight when a country boy from Appalachia shows up and does their high intelligent/electrical wizardry jobs for them and smiles at them while he does it. I've seen egos shatter into a million little pieces. Absolute true story.


If I had a dollar for every time that I've heard someone call somebody else "uneducated" or assume somebody is stupid, just because they don't hold a degree, I would, of course, be a millionaire. I just roll my eyes at their ignorance.

By Learn a skill, I actually mean, go learn it, not go into debt forever to get a piece of paper that doesn't mean crap to me.

I have a good job. I make pretty good money. Now. After 20 years at the same company, having learned, mostly on the job.

I realize my company is a rarity these days, but I also know that you can apprentice and learn all kinds of jobs. Yeah, the world may need lawyers, (maybe a quarter of what there are), but how are the offices, homes, and ever other dwelling going to be built, without the fellow with the hammer?

And just because he has the hammer, sure doesn't mean he isn't smart.

An American business consultant, on holiday in the tropics watched a little boat dock at the a pier. Noting the incredible quality of the fisherman's catch, the consultant asked the fisherman how long it had taken to catch them.

"Not very long." answered the fisherman.

"Then, why didn't you stay out longer and catch more?" asked the consultant.

The fisherman explained that his small catch was sufficient to meet his needs and those of his family.

The consultant asked, "But what do you do with the rest of your time?"

"Oh I fish some, play with my children, have an afternoon's rest under a coconut tree, spend time with my wife. In the evenings, I go into the community hall to see my friends, have a few beers, play the drums, and sing a few songs..... I have a full and happy life." replied the fisherman.

The consultant ventured, "I have an MBA from Harvard and I can help you...... You should start by fishing longer every day. You can then sell the extra fish you catch. With the extra revenue, you can buy a bigger boat. With the extra money the larger boat will bring, you can buy a second one and a third one and so on until you have a large fleet. Instead of selling your fish here on the pier, you can negotiate directly with the processing plants and maybe even open your own plant. You can then leave this little village and move to a city here or maybe even in the United Kingdom, from where you can direct your huge enterprise."

"How long would that take?" asked the fisherman.

"Oh, ten, maybe twenty years." replied the consultant.

"And after that?" asked the fisherman.

"After that? That's when it gets really interesting," answered the consultant, laughing, "When your business gets really big, you can start selling shares in your company and make millions!"

"Millions? Really? And after that?" pressed the fisherman.

fish, play with my children, have an afternoon's rest under a coconut tree, spend time with my wife

"After that you'll be able to retire, move out to a small village by the sea, fish some, take afternoon naps under a coconut tree, and spend relaxing evenings having a few drinks with your friends, maybe play a little music..."

" That's what i,m doing right now", said the fisherman and went his way.

There's a book called,

Paying for the party.

You need to read it. This book followed women from the start of college to well after. Degrees don't get you jobs. Who you meet while getting them get you jobs.

I don't know if it's the same across the pond in North America but our education system seems to be totally based around targets and academic achievements rather than equipping the nation for a better future.

The small minority of the very best and the very brightest will always get somewhere (as long as they have the motivation).

But in reality too many kids are sold the dream............ they can be whatever they want to be........ as long as they get a good education.

They are pointed down a path of going to university (no matter how useless some degrees are) so the schools can show how many students move on to higher education and move up the league tables. The universities get the fees so they are in on the deal too. In the end the stats may look good. But the kids at university then come out holding their "Media Studies" degree and then wonder why they can't get a job on TV.

Meanwhile the illegal immigrants, even the legal immigrants aren't the ones that "took our jobs". They were given away by Corporate CEOs to the cheaper labour forces in foreign countries, where pay and conditions are only questioned when a media scandal about it develops. Hang on a second. Who owns the media?

originally posted by: TheJourney
' Intelligence itself means little to nothing in this society. Degrees matter.

I disagree mostly.

The whole problem is "mind-set".

First off:

Intelligence doesn't mean anything when getting a degree. Getting a degree means you followed directions and read a book and listened to the teachers and found the answers in a book and wrote them down. Just because you can read, write and listen don't mean someone is intelligent, only that they have a basic education. If your intelligent enough you will LEARN the material and LEARN how to use it in the career field your going into to get ahead. Intelligence also plays a role in making the right choices along the way to be successful in the field of your choosing.
It also means being intelligent enough to choose a field where there is a real need in the world so you can get hired.

You want to be an artist and get the training and learn how to paint very well? You won't find a job here in my town because there is no demand for one. What they advertise for here EVERY WEEK is phlebotomy training. If you get this training and learn how to do it well you can have your choice of 2-3 jobs every week....every week!


Secondly:
Getting a degree should not be the reason to further your education, LEARNING new skills and gaining knowledge
In the area you want to work is why your in school. Getting a degree is only proof you went through the "training".

Two people could go and get a degree in Business Administration and take the exact same classes and when they get their degree one might be a great hire and know their stuff and the other didn't learn squat because he was only interested in getting the degree, not learning the material to use in a practical situation.

originally posted by: PsychoEmperor
a reply to: TheJourney


Whatever makes you happy is what matter, some people want money, some want diplomas, some want a family, I always wanted a house, to each their own

Exactly!!!

Everybody has a different view of "success". Most people don't know what they want but think they do.
Money, power & status don't make a person happy most times.

How many rich successful people kill themselves and you look at them and say "they had it all" why did they do that.

I am not rich but own a big chunk of property, 2 houses, 2 newer PAID OFF vehicles, a few ATV's, some livestock and have 5 grown well adjusted kids with grand-kids....I am VERY successful and happy.
(no degrees though, just hard work, I have a GED)