You can have my Uzi when you pry it from my cute widdle fingers...

originally posted by: DAVID64 9 is not too young to start shooting

oh but it most certainly is. it's old enough for a football, a bicycle, an RC toy maybe. not a gun.

and how young, exactly, is too young? 6? 4? if their hands are too small to squeeze a trigger?

It should be a debate on common sense; Not our second amendment rights. These New Jersey people were stupid morons for allowing a child to shoot an automatic weapon. The instructor should've known better, but obviously, he was no expert in guns because experts know how an Uzi is hard to handle.

a reply to: Riffrafter

BTW - I am not anti-gun or anti 2nd amendment. I am anti-stupidity, anti-closed mindedness, and anti-common sense.

I'm not sure what to make of that. But no, there is no debate. It was a bad decision, pretty much everyone agrees with that. Plus, the story was already posted, so there's really nothing else to be said about it that hasn't been seen already.

This is not a gun issue, it's a "you can't fix stupid issue".
We have all read stories of 10 yr olds driving tractors over farmers killing them.
We have all watched very little kids drive by on the back of motorcycles.
How bout we check the stats of kids killed driving atv's.

This is just another case of bad parenting.

Don't uzi's empty a clip in like a second or so? the kid could probably handle one shot at a time to correct position etc but probably 30 in a second would need some serious strength and also the knowledge of what will happen

I presume the instructor has made it into the Darwin awards? if not, why not?

exactly.

I said this on the other thread, right to own is no basis for giving kids guns. shes got to grow up with knowing she shot a guy and killed him. I bet she will never touch a gun again, poor tortured soul.

a reply to: Riffrafter

At what point does the pro-gun lobby/militia stand back and say - "We've lost our collective mind"

That statement should be directed at the parents.

How a responsible parent would let their child near a firearm, let alone operate one, is baffling-Not to mention that she was given a freaking SMG to practice with. I'm reluctant to say it but her folks might be in that small minority of 'those gun owners' who see the right of gun ownership as an excuse to exercise said right without any logical reason to do so. I also have the right to urinate on an electric fence but I won't do it just because the the fence is there.

I would have loved to be a fly on the wall when the parents made the fateful decision to take their daughter to the shooting range, and the logic that made them come to that decision.

I don't feel bad about this. It's karma. Make stupid decisions and feed Darwin.

a reply to: Riffrafter

What's wrong with Glock?!?!?
So lemme get this straight:
A negligent firearms instructor loses his life over his stupidity and you go and defame the manufacturer of the worlds finest pistols?
You obviously don't know what your talking about.
No one will take your opinion seriously until you are knowledgable in the subjects you speak against

What's wrong with Glock ... defame the manufacturer of the worlds finest pistols?

Glock, world's finest pistols? Really?

Here we go. I'd rather read a good argument about who makes the best weapons.

originally posted by: roadgravel

What's wrong with Glock ... defame the manufacturer of the worlds finest pistols?

Glock, world's finest pistols? Really?

they are flimsy and cheap, mostly plastic and break easily.

a nice sig or smith and wesson is a better weapon, stated before my fave was the 1911 by spring field but not infallible, they do jam and require alot of maintenance

a reply to: rockoblocko

Re:

Alleged problems with this video.

The author of the video highlights what they perceive as a lighting problem with an area of shadow in the shot, as evidence that the image has been altered in some way. I call BS on that. The shadow in question gets hidden behind a veil of heat and gunpowder residue from the muzzle of the weapon while it fires, not by some arcane techno sorcery.

Furthermore, the issue with the sound of the gun... anyone who knows anything about audio visual issues, knows that in order to compare one sound beside another, and expect the same exact result from two like sources, one must record the sound with IDENTICAL recording gear. I highly doubt that the person who authored this video either understands that, or indeed applied that knowledge to coming to their conclusions, let alone establishing proof of those conclusions. In summary, different devices record sound in different qualities, with different standards of accuracy and play back fidelity, so comparing one sound with another is only relevant if the same exact specification of sound recording and reproduction gear was in use for both recordings.

Those are the most important aspects of the allegations made in the video, in my opinion, and my responses to them.

a reply to: Riffrafter

I don't understand why this should stir anything up or bring up a debate. It was a freak accident and likely the instructors own fault not paying close attention and putting too much ammo in or even in allowing her to shoot the gun. That was his mistake.

It was at a gun range, I am sure he paid expensive yearly fees for his automatic weapons (why very few people own them), and there is no law restricting the age you can shoot a gun ( and of course shouldn't be, because then you have precedence to lock up a kid who say.. picked up a gun and defended his house).

That said.. if I had kids I wouldn't teach them to shoot until they were probably 12 or 13 and it would definitely not be with an UZI.

They may not be as pretty as a Kimber, but if my home is ever broken into I will grab my Glock before I grab my ak or shotgun because I know my Glock will fire every time I pull the trigger. Reliability is what I call fine. You can keep your shiny 1911's

Revolvers aren't known for jamming.

a reply to: rockoblocko

ktar.com...

It's not fake. Sorry, but people really are that stupid. I can understand not wanting to believe the depths of ignorance that people have sunk too, it's a sad thing to realize, but you can't fix stupid if you don't first acknowledge that it's here. Deny Ignorance.

It happened. The range is shut down, a father is dead and a child is scarred for life because of the idiotic actions of those in charge of all 3. All responsible parties, the range, the family of the deceased and the parents of the child need to be ordered by a court to pay for the counseling that the child needs. I don't care if it was an accident or not. If there is any debate at all about this, it needs to be about how much money is needed for the counseling.

F**k the guns, think about that little girl.

a reply to: GogoVicMorrow

As a range instructor / expert, I think this man failed. If he was their best, it might be a good idea to go else where for your thrills.

So what? We all have baggage. The kid wanted to shoot the weapon. The kid got to see the results.

Welcome to the big, wide world.