Operation Ice Age

I replied with this in another forum and then thought
wait.. I've seen way shorter threads with less info
many times on ATS.
So what the heck ? I made a real long one.
But hopefully interesting enough to keep
some of you reading.

Tear me up. I'll be brave.
You old hats have no idea how intimidating it is
lurking and then joining and jumping in.
And jumping in with wild speculation on
recent scientific data regarding the Sun
and the hypothesis that the Ice Age is here
no less.

And yes, I searched and there are plenty of Ice Age threads but
I'm now willing to stick my neck out and call the
Ice age arrived and docked.

So again...
Absolutely Positively Complete utter speculation on my part.

The Sun is falling asleep as we speak.
The mini ice age is here and this was what
winter 2013 ushered in.
Winter 2013 was especially cold in North America
right about where the ice sheets stopped
11,000 years ago.

It's been about 400 years since
the last mini ice age, the Maunder Minimum.
Interestingly they happen about once every 400 years,
during interglacial periods .

In 1604 Sunspot numbers started dropping rapidly
and the Suns irradiance probably diminished
every so slightly .
Less than 1%. But that's enough.
Little changes on the Sun equal big changes on Earth.

Well guess what is happening right now ?
Sunspots are diminishing.
But because climate prediction models
have never factored in Sun variability,
The IPCC has never taken this into account.
m.youtube.com...
Maybe that's why temperatures have actually
been cooling on Earth since 1998 ?
Co2 and temp are no longer inseparable.
The Sun hit the hay. It's a perfect storm.

The sharp sunspot drop like the one
we are experiencing now is pretty close to
what happened with the Sun during the
mini ice age of the Renaissance.
Yes I know Volcanoes blah blah.
But maybe they are related as well
(Hey did you here sprites
happen from outer space then
come into our atmosphere?)

We give very little attention as people to the biggest
controller of Everything in about a billion mile diameter bubble.
Can it cause volcanism or Eq's ? please...if it burped just right
we are all toast.

Back to Sun spots, our spots are dropping more quickly than
the period just before the last grand minima.
Faster than anytime in the last 9,000 years.
www.bbc.com...

Also the Suns' heliosphere has weakened
and shrunk substantially.
en.m.wikipedia.org...
Earths magnetosphere and atmosphere
are both at all time lows.

Hypothesis
After the next few winters there will be no question
as to whether an ice age is here or not.


And it may be that this is the Big Solar Sleep.
The Sun does this roughly every 110,000 years.
One that lasts for 90,000 years.
Cold thick ice caps have been the norm on Earth
for the last 2 million years.
Like clockwork. 90k of cold, then a thaw, then wham
big flood, then 11k of warm.
Guess how long it's been warm btw?

If this is the case and 'This is the big one Elizabeth',
As far as North America's concerned ;
Canadians and everyone north of Indiana
will have to move eventually. Except western Alaska
perhaps and some areas of the Northwest.
But Minnesota Illinois Wisconsin will get it first.

If the big one my guess is
Ice sheets 2 miles high will quickly form.
Chicago recorded the coldest day ever for July last month
and the Antarctic is a ice making machine at the moment.

That's enough for now right? Go get blankets and kindling.
And Hell, take your catalytic converters out of your cars.
I'm kidding, if I'm right we all still have time to do something
about this with relative ease as far as world ending crisis go.
I get we'll have a 5-10 year warning of progressive cold.
Check out cold records vs hot for 2014. Including summer.
Cold records are whomping heat. But after two more cold
ones let's get after it with a vengeance .
This kind of change is global. Crops need to move
etc, t may be good for us to operate as one people for a change.
www.presstv.com...

Check out Iceagenow.com or Suspicious Observers YouTube channel for more.
I have no idea how Al Gore will handle this.

Congrats on your first doom porn thread.

a reply to: proob4
I know !
That's why I wrote it



But no not doomed.
Maybe we'll have to accommodate some Canadians
and move the bread basket a bit south, but no doom.
Now if we were about to have 2 mile high melt water
headed on our way I'd say DOOOOM!
But that was 10,000 years ago.

a reply to: UnderKingsPeak

If a mini (or maxi) ice age struck us right now....

Would the AGW crowd plead with everyone to pump more CO2 into the atmosphere?

a reply to: butcherguy
They might. That's what's gonna be so curve ball about this
if the Sun does move into hibernation.
One thing is for sure. The Sun is the boss.
Not catalytic converters or carbon bean counters.

a reply to: UnderKingsPeak

Not disputing or trying to derail your thread. I find it interesting and more believable that the other version of climate change. However can you or someone else explain to me how we know how many spots the sun produced in 1600 what ever? Or anytime prior to actually having the ability to view the sun 24/7 with computerized equipment. Who saw sun spots before there was optics to view them and protect vision from damage? How was this information obtained and quantified?

a reply to: UnderKingsPeak

"You old hats have no idea how intimidating it is "

Who you calling Old?

lol

Ok so I am.

Nice thread tho...even for us old fogies. But remember one thing...us oldies have more of an open mind because we've seen more.

Peace

originally posted by: Bilk22
a reply to: UnderKingsPeak

Not disputing or trying to derail your thread. I find it interesting and more believable that the other version of climate change. However can you or someone else explain to me how we know how many spots the sun produced in 1600 what ever? Or anytime prior to actually having the ability to view the sun 24/7 with computerized equipment. Who saw sun spots before there was optics to view them and protect vision from damage? How was this information obtained and quantified?

No problem at all!
Good question apparently just a few years before the sunspot number began to drop
the daily sunspot numbers were being recorded for the first time.
Lucky break.

originally posted by: jude11
a reply to: UnderKingsPeak

"You old hats have no idea how intimidating it is "

Who you calling Old?

lol

Ok so I am.

Nice thread tho...even for us old fogies. But remember one thing...us oldies have more of an open mind because we've seen more.

Peace

Sorry !
I certainly didn't mean that like it sounded
as someone who was born in the 60's haha.

originally posted by: UnderKingsPeak

originally posted by: Bilk22
a reply to: UnderKingsPeak

Not disputing or trying to derail your thread. I find it interesting and more believable that the other version of climate change. However can you or someone else explain to me how we know how many spots the sun produced in 1600 what ever? Or anytime prior to actually having the ability to view the sun 24/7 with computerized equipment. Who saw sun spots before there was optics to view them and protect vision from damage? How was this information obtained and quantified?

No problem at all!
Good question apparently just a few years before the sunspot number began to drop
the first daily sunspot numbers were being recorded for the first time.
Lucky break.

That didn't really answer my question. Who was counting sun spots centuries ago? How did they know of sun spots and how did they view them and count them? What technology was used?

a reply to: Bilk22
How about a history of Sunspot number counts?
www.windows2universe.org...
I believed they used a pinhole that projected the Sun on a piece of light parchment.
The pinhole showed the sun with its spots.

originally posted by: Bilk22
a reply to: UnderKingsPeak

Not disputing or trying to derail your thread. I find it interesting and more believable that the other version of climate change. However can you or someone else explain to me how we know how many spots the sun produced in 1600 what ever? Or anytime prior to actually having the ability to view the sun 24/7 with computerized equipment. Who saw sun spots before there was optics to view them and protect vision from damage? How was this information obtained and quantified?

Actually, there are several ways to view the sun safely and see sun spots (if they are there) that do not involve advanced optics or electronics.

First is any piece of "smoked" glass. Holding a pane of glass in the top part of the flame of a candle will blacken the glass with soot. It's thick enough that you can see the sun through it safely.
The sun is large enough (apparent size is the same as a full moon from here on Earth), that you can actually see large sun spots doing this method.

The other way is with what we call a the "Pinhole Method". Taking an object like a sheet of paper, and poke a very small hole in it. Hold it so that the sun is hitting it, and have it project a image of the sun on another surface. You can look at the projected image of the sun safely, and again, if the sunspots are large enough, you'll see them on the projection.

Here's a link to wikipedia on the subject. Oldest known recording of sun spots was by the Chinese back in 364 BC:

Sun Spots

originally posted by: UnderKingsPeak
a reply to: Bilk22
How about a history of Sunspot number counts?
www.windows2universe.org...
I believed they used a pinhole that project the sun on a piece of light parchment.
The pinhole showed the sun with its spots.

Yeah I saw that before. So 8000 years ago you could see sun spots with the naked eye and actually keep count? Same goes for the period of the invention of the telescope? Someone kept count of them daily, weekly, annually? I don't see it.

a reply to: Bilk22

I agree, I doubt any one was using smoked glass and pinholes to count sunspots thousands of years ago.

That said, I think the sun has more to do with whether or not we have any climate change than any supposed man made global warming.

a reply to: Bilk22

They can tell, in a general sense, solar activity from glacial cores and other sources. They cannot tell how many sun spots there were, but it would be a decent guess. Call it a SWAG (scientific wild a$$ed guess) lol

BTW, to the OP: We currently are in an "ice age"... we just happen to be in an interglacial period of the ice age that began 2.6 million years ago.

a reply to: butcherguy

I am sure that Al Gore and the hollywoodies would declare themselves heroes for being ahead of the curve on increasing our carbon footprint lol

a reply to: Bilk22

From the wiki link I provided in my last post:

Studies of stratigraphic data have suggested that the solar cycles have been active for hundreds of millions of years, if not longer; measuring varves in precambrian sedimentary rock has revealed repeating peaks in layer thickness, with a pattern repeating approximately every eleven years. It is possible that the early atmosphere on Earth was more sensitive to changes in solar radiation than today, so that greater glacial melting (and thicker sediment deposits) could have occurred during years with greater sunspot activity.[7][8] This would presume annual layering; however, alternate explanations (diurnal) have also been proposed.[9]

Analysis of tree rings has revealed a detailed picture of past solar cycles: Dendrochronologically dated radiocarbon concentrations have allowed for a reconstruction of sunspot activity dating back 11,400 years, far beyond the four centuries of available, reliable records from direct solar observation

So prior to people recording them, they have to rely on other methods, which while not exact, do give a good generality.

a reply to: bbracken677
Yes exactly correct IMO on all accounts
Thanks bbracken.

a reply to: UnderKingsPeak

I just love how geologists act as if the Pleistocene age is over. What exactly changes about our planet in the last 11k years that makes you think another ice age isn't ahead of us? Oh, our civilization came, so of course an ice age couldn't be coming, because that would be really inconvenient for us.

a reply to: UnderKingsPeak

I read somewhere that the transition from interglacial to continental ice sheet takes ten years.

Basically the snow falls in the winter and doesn't melt in the summer.

Still looking for the article.

I found this

What caused the ice ages? There have been many explanations proposed, none of which appears to be solely adequate. These include:


1.Variations in the earth's orbital characteristics (angle of the ecliptic, eccentricity of the orbit, precession of the equinoxes). While this is sometimes touted as being "the" explanation of the ice ages, it cannot be the sole explanation since there have been long periods without glaciation during which Earth's orbital elements matched those of recent glacial periods. The patterns of ice advance and retreat DURING an ice age do seem to track the variations in orbital characteristics.
2.Excessive volcanic activity -- perhaps resulting from impacts of meteors, asteroids, or comets; or perhaps associated with the collision of detached land masses with continents proper (e.g., India with the rest of Asia).
3.Meteoritic and/or cometary impacts resulting in a kind of "nuclear winter." This includes the possibility of regular comet showers caused by a distant unseen solar companion (often called "Nemesis") deflecting outlying cometary bodies into the inner solar system.
4.Passage of the solar system through interstellar dust clouds as the solar system moves up and down through the plane of the galaxy.
5."Fast" slippage of the earth's crustal plates on the underlying magma, perhaps caused by imbalances in the distribution of ice on continental surfaces. (This no longer appears to be a viable theory.)
6.Variations in solar output. Perhaps the sun is a long-period irregular variable star.
7.Changes in ocean currents and temperatures caused by shifting continental configurations.

I'm sure there are other explanations I can't bring to mind right now.

www.talkorigins.org...