Dunkin' Donuts Worker's Death Reveals The True Cost Of Our Low-Wage, Part-Time Economy

originally posted by: KeliOnyx

This country has the hardest working most skilled and most driven workforce in the world, yet the middle class is vanishing, and Wall Street has you convinced it isn't their demand for higher and higher profits each and every quarter that is the problem. Our economy is being ran by an investor class that is penny wise and pound foolish. They are dead set on cutting off their own nose to spite their face and convinced you that it is the guy under you on the ladder that is the problem.

Excellent Post.
We have become a nation for the Investor Class and CEO's and all the Government Policies, Foreign and Domestic have been to enrich them at the expense to the rest of the nation. It was not the bottom 99% that was for these foreign trade pacts, it was not the bottom 99% that was for bailing out the banks, it was not the bottom 99% that was for open borders. They have no political nor monetary power anyways. It was the Corporate and Banking Lobbyists.

The solution is to boot them out.

We need to update this:

“We here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain, that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom; and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.”
President Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865)

To this, since it is all that matters:

“We here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain, that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom; and that government of the Investors and CEOs, by the Investors and CEOs, for the Investors and CEOs, shall not perish from the earth.”
President Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865)

originally posted by: beezzer
Back to my original post then, we are focusing on the wrong thing.



Why run to them when they (government) are the ones responsible for creating the mess in the first place?

That is just the point Beezer, the majority in this country can't run to the government because they have no political or monetary power.

The government is the solution though for the top elite and they are spending records amounts of money to put their men in power and cater to them.

The government is such a mess, exactly because of the rich in this country. Their Puppet Politicians are paying them back and screwing the rest of America.

originally posted by: beezzer
Let's all concentrate on the poor woman who had to work 4 minimum wage jobs.

Let's all focus on the debate about how low minimum wages are.

Let's all ignore the fact that America's worker base is service-related.

Let's all ignore the fact that America's creative manufacturing base has been wiped out.

Let's focus on minimum wage industry and ignore supporting, endorsing, creating professions like medicine, engineering, production, manufacturing, construction, architecture, science, etc.

We have a president and congress soiling themselves over minimum wage and they are purposefully ignoring the fact that in a service industry, you can't raise wages unless you raise the cost of service!
They are ignoring America's weakening educational levels, America's poor professional levels.

Forget having more scientists or engineers!

Let's raise the effing minimum wage to 50 effing dollars an hour!

*bah*

I'm not the sharpest bowling ball in the drawer, but even I can see this is going the wrong way!

Agreed Rabbit ... I have been trying to explain to people I know since Reagan was in office and the flight of the manufacturing base was the beginning of the end for the USA. We moved from an economy making stuff to an economy of serving food and now we are a bank- based scamming economy .... what bad could happen ....LOL

however, creating a bottomless pit of unskilled and semi-skilled labor isn't the answer either .... neither is forcing companies to pay people more ......

if as the corporate world ideology of capitalism that labor is set by the market and the scarcity of labor .... then we must stop illegal immigration and limit work visas ......

we can't have it both ways ... because it dilutes everyone's freedom ....

originally posted by: fnpmitchreturns


if as the corporate world ideology of capitalism that labor is set by the market and the scarcity of labor .... then we must stop illegal immigration and limit work visas ......

we can't have it both ways ... because it dilutes everyone's freedom ....

Good post
I agree on ending illegal immigration as do the majority of Americans but Corporate Lobbyists don't.

www.endillegalimmigration.com...

A super majority of Americans support immigration enforcement and oppose Amnesty according to countless polls and surveys about illegal immigration. Unfortunately, the pro-Amnesty lobby is circulating a few politicized polls that claim the opposite.

Top Corporate Executives Descend On Washington To Lobby For Amnesty… - See more at: www.teaparty.org...

(Bloomberg) - Evangelical pastors, corporate leaders, elected Republican officials and small-government activists arrive in Washington next week to lobby lawmakers to revamp U.S. immigration policies before year’s end.

The “conservative fly-in” will involve about 600 people and include personal meetings with at least 80 Republican members of Congress, said Ali Noorani, an organizer of the event and executive director of the National Immigration Forum.

originally posted by: Willtell
Sad indeed but we have to remain positive and NEVER give up hope.
And strive for a better world where we can attain that old song by an old jazz guy Pharoah Sanders - The Creator has a Master Plan…peace and happiness for every man.

Though today we might add every man... and woman!

Oh indeed, With Leon Thomas on vocals!

Well, economically, we have more than enough to go around... the problem is mismanagement of resources (hoarding to induce false scarcity by the few winners of monopoly).

The government is not "of, by and for" the people anymore in the U.S., anyway, with the usual exceptions... it's been corrupted to a large degree by those same hoarders of capital. The world economy, too, of course.

As far as answers... perhaps we all should unionize and not play their game anymore and demand a life worth living.

Groups get tribal and lock out "outsiders"... merit doesn't necessarily guarantee entry into even the lower levels anymore. Until we recognize that humans are "all in this together" and helping the least able raises the rest, we are doomed to fighting each other over table scraps... while those at the table amuse themselves... as it's been forever.

Imagine how the world could be for everyone with enough resources distributed... information being a resource, too. We don't even realize what we could be and do...

a reply to: Willtell
I by no means intend to disrespect the dead, but maybe if you're driving around with a gas can inside your car says a lot about your level of intelligence and will also explain why you're working 4 menial low-wage jobs. One woman died from her mistake, unrelated to work or working conditions. Does this speak volumes about our culture, or is it sensible means to the actions of one person?

The latter.

And if anybody is going to turn this into a wage-increase debate, let's consider that this person among others making the same wage for a similar job are cooking pre-made donuts and putting them on trays. How much money should a person get paid for that task, or to run a microwave, push a mop?

originally posted by: sarra1833
I'm about to get my third job. Everyone only gives part time so I need two to make forty hrs a week and one more to get 15 more hours to try to save up to get a car and way way later, insurance for emergency hospital visits etc. life isn't easy.

And do you think it's reasonable that when virtually every other developed nation on earth has a 30-35 hour work week the unofficial work week in the US is more along the lines of 55 to 60 hours? And then after you have worked those hours you get fewer days off and earn less than the person only working 30?

Our policies are completely and totally broken.

originally posted by: eManym
I always considered low wage unskilled service jobs as starter jobs for those moving into the job force or older workers using that type of employment to supplement their retirement. Apparently many are choosing these types of jobs as a career choice.

It surprises me that these workers are demanding wages that entry level skilled workers make.

For people that work these jobs that have the opportunity to better themselves, why don't they have the motivation to raise their standard of living?

I understand the economy is bad but for someone working four jobs, it wouldn't last long because sleep deprivation has its problems.

I busted my are through college working two jobs and raising a son. I climbed the ranks and became a Sr. Underwriting Manager for the largest bank in the US. Rates went up and I lost my job. 45k in student loans still and I've started bussing tables at 8.50 an hour. Can't get great jobs if there isn't any left. Too many grads, not enough positions.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: crazyewok

Like stated previously, Ireland is providing tax incentives for new businesses.

Why can't the US do the same thing?

Don't punish business with higher taxes.

Bring industry BACK to the US so we can stop being a service-based economy and can go back to being a manufacturer-based economy.

Because you can't race to the bottom. Corporations are going to go whereever the best deal is. Ireland gives them a bonus for incorporating there and a 0% tax rate. A few years ago it was just a 0% tax rate. Next they'll get a -1% tax rate, should we compete by giving the corporation a -2% tax rate?

The answer is no. If a corporation wants access to our markets they need to spend money in our economy and provide jobs to our country. We can't race to the bottom, someone else is always going to be willing to give the corporations a better job, just the same as globalization means there's always someone out there that's going to be willing to take a lower wage for the same work.

If we want manufacturing jobs in the US the solution isn't to make them reincorporate here again. It's to tell the widget producer that if they want to sell their widget in the US they need to provide x thousand jobs to the US.

You got to really hustle in today’ world.

I left a high paying job to start a new career in Computer technology…years ago.

It’s a high wire act and you have to work many little jobs to survive.

I worked 3 at one time

I delivered papers at 4 in the morning then had a guard job and then a slave job at UPS where they work you like a horse

I literally cursed my boss out and invited him outside where I promised to whip his ass…and dig this:

HE STILL DIDN’T FIRE ME!

That’s how bad that job was

I got another part time for the feds in one of the census years

But then after that you get a job in your field you don’t make much at first so you’re still behind and then have a college loan to pay off.

Something has got to give

Either free education, as they had before the 80’s or something to give folks a hand in this killer society where it is turning into a dystopia of greed, selfishness, hatred, and poverty...

a reply to: Willtell

Tell us what you mean by "free education or something."

a reply to: feverdreams

Free college use to exist on state levels or at least very relatively cheap

Colleges in California use to be free until Reagan stopped it

www.insidehighered.com...

thinkprogress.org...

There are movemnets to make them free again in some places or much cheaper.

a reply to: Willtell

You said you left a high paying job, on your own volition to start a new career. Down the road ended up working at UPS. If you were able to acquire a high paying job at one point in your life, why can that not happen again? Was it your personal choices that led you down the road to working 3 little jobs to stay afloat, or is that somehow in your eyes the nature of modern times in America, or whatever it is that you're insinuating?

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: ChaosComplex

OUTSOURCING.

yep and the reason for outsourcing...more profit and that just related back to greed

Well if you have people who can do the same work in another country for less, why not try to hire them? Restricing trade or preventing companies from going over there to employ them is isolation or protectionism isn't it? If peoiple in our own country cannot compete with someone elsewhere the answer isn't to shut ourselves off from them but gently nudge our own population in a better direction.

What I see is .... low skill workers were dislocated when we opened ourselves up to the world outside. Before regaonimic and NAFTA we were much more protectionist. AFterward, things got hectic because we weren't used to it. My argument is we'll eventually find a compromise and a solution, but it's hard. I don't think ther'es a guarantee we'll succeed. There'r rich countries and poor countries. The US may lose its #1 position as a superpower status someday if it fumbles the bal.

I alos am very skeptical the wealthy are robbing the poor or middle-class and making off so much more money tha they used to. I've heard some people say the rich have increased their income some 900% and the rest of us are just sittin at 10% with head just above water. I don't beleive thise, but moreso, I think there's ag agenda going on just to tax Tax TAX. Sheeple like it and gulp it up because they don't have to do anything to earn it. Robbing from the rich. I'd rather look into the stats myself and look at the broader conditions in hte wolrd before making a judgmental.

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: beezzer

I'm offering solutions, not placing blame and pointing fingers.

You never place blame? Or point fingers?





Expand your horizons. Maybe it's not all about the government Beeze - almost nothing is that simplistic. Not even economics



Eliminating government is not going to eliminate poverty - nothing will. But there are things we can do that will help - a living wage is one of those things. If people can't afford labor - and it hurts their business - how is that not just part of a functioning, capitalistic economy? If the price of flour goes up - there are adjustments. The price of labor also goes up - people are worth what they're worth. If you force wages to stay low - how is that even capitalism? How is it also not morally and ethically wrong?

Speaking of economics, if someone waved a magic wand tomorrow and minimum wage went up to 20$ an hour nation wide we would have the problem of prices, cost of living rising. Give it a while and the differential would be the same as it is now.

originally posted by: jonnywhite


Well if you have people who can do the same work in another country for less, why not try to hire them? Restricing trade or preventing companies from going over there to employ them is isolation or protectionism isn't it? If peoiple in our own country cannot compete with someone elsewhere the answer isn't to shut ourselves off from them but gently nudge our own population in a better direction.

What I see is .... low skill workers were dislocated when we opened ourselves up to the world outside. Before regaonimic and NAFTA we were much more protectionist. AFterward, things got hectic because we weren't used to it. My argument is we'll eventually find a compromise and a solution, but it's hard. I don't think ther'es a guarantee we'll succeed. There'r rich countries and poor countries. The US may lose its #1 position as a superpower status someday if it fumbles the bal.

Do you really want to wait until the rest of the 3rd world is done being exploited to have some standard of living?
What world is it that you are living in that the low skilled workers got dislocated? They weren't dislocated they got pushed back down the ladder when some joker at the top decided to start removing rungs. You cannot have free trade with a pool of cheap labor it does not work you have to have balanced and controlled trade. We can have complete and total free trade with Europe it works they have an equivalent standard of living.

If you have trade with the third world all you are really doing is exploiting the labor pool to mass produce consumer goods. If you want to build a plant in China and hire there workers that is fine but our trade policy should be structured in a way that offsets what is being taken out of our economy for doing so. So yes you have to utilize a degree of protectionism not just for own workers but for the good of the third world workers as well.

originally posted by: Logarock
Speaking of economics, if someone waved a magic wand tomorrow and minimum wage went up to 20$ an hour nation wide we would have the problem of prices, cost of living rising. Give it a while and the differential would be the same as it is now.

This is a common argument but it's flawed. When wages go up, spending also goes up which means companies do a greater volume of business. Just as Walmart offers lower prices due to having a higher sales volume, ordinary companies also get to take advantage of scale when their customers have more money to spend. With increased spending revenue also goes up.

You can see a real world example of this in Australia which has a minimum wage twice that of the US but only has a cost of goods about 10% higher.

a reply to: KeliOnyx
Those workers in China live pretty good actually. Many of them get paid very similarly to US workers. Expectations in US are ridiculous though. REgulations - gettin fatte every year - and taxes are piled on business and suffocates. So they obviously have the desire to go to another country to cut c osts. The US is digging its own grave iof it keeps on this road. The way to a better place is to let other countreis keep doing what they do best and instead of shutting ourselves off from them we need to restructure education and move towards a higher skill economy.

originally posted by: eManym
a reply to: Dingo80
What I meant by my post was, why don't these workers learn a skill that pays higher wages rather than working several jobs at the same level?

Some people never get the opportunity. I've never made more than 9 dollars an hour. Even that job I got fired from for *drumroll* taking a lunch break. Yes that's right, I took a lunch break when all the machines were down because of something my boss did. He fell asleep and the alarms going off on his pc didn't wake him up. He didn't shut the machine off and it ground to a halt and maintenance had to be called in to fix it. This had nearly happened several times because he slept through about 2/3 of his shift every night but I would run into the office and save his ass. This time I didn't make it. Machines were down all night and I decided to take a lunch break (which I wasn't allowed to do, only person in the plant that didn't get a lunch was me). Well that pissed him off so since he was going to get in trouble for effing up the whole nights production so he decided to fire me.

I've never had a good job opportunity in my entire life (just turned 30). I don't know anyone who works in any industry that makes good money. I don't have any friends or family who've graduated college. That's why I just started 2 weeks ago. I aim to be the first. I'm going for information technology and excited to put factory work for # pay out of my life.