What I love about the pro-life logic...

originally posted by: smithjustinb

originally posted by: SearchLightsInc
it's about the illogical argument of holding someone accountable for their actions and then removing decision making from their hands because you don't believe they are responsible enough to make decisions.

The baby is incapable of making a decision about its life. A pregnant woman having an abortion has never made a decision about her body. She made a decision about someone else's. The accountability is for the actions they took against another person that had no choice and could take no action.

Yes but the baby is never deemed responsible for the pregnancy anyway, the mother is.

So, if the mother is responsible for getting pregnant, then you acknowledge her individual ownership of HER sexual organ's. In holding her accountable for her action's, you cannot then step in and tell her what she can and cannot do with her body.
She either own's it or she doesn't. Pro-lifer's need to pick.

originally posted by: SearchLightsInc

Again i must point out that this thread isnt about the unborn or the father's rights. It is about holding someone accountable for their body and then saying "actually, although its your fault you got pregnant, you cant make decisions over your own body"

People need to stick on topic.

The accountability is not held for the mother's body. The accountability is held for the baby's. I'm saying, "actually, although its not your fault you got pregnant, its not the baby's either. You can't make decisions about someone else's body."

originally posted by: SearchLightsInc

Yes but the baby is never deemed responsible for the pregnancy anyway, the mother is.

You're right. The baby is not responsible for the pregnancy.

then you acknowledge her individual ownership of HER sexual organ's.

A baby is not a sexual organ.

In holding her accountable for her action's, you cannot then step in and tell her what she can and cannot do with her body.

She can be told what she can or can't do with someone else's.

She either own's it or she doesn't. Pro-lifer's need to pick.

She owns her organs. The baby owns its.

originally posted by: SearchLightsInc

Okay so, do you deem the women fully responsible for the pregnancy? Because if you do, you're acknowledging her as an individual who had accountability and ownership of her body - and if she has that, you can't tell her what to do because it's none of your business?

I deem every individual responsible for their own actions... None of my business and I really couldn't care because I don't have to live with it and my two children were planned but this does tell me one thing.. The Woman isn't a responsible person in the first place. She thinks about the consequences when it's too late. She is not Pro life or Pro active.. She will probably be back at the abortion clinic in about 5 weeks trying to work out where she went wrong again.

I'm a male and would never let my other half have an abortion... I am against it completely. A bit of self restraint and common sense would solve this problem.. Something that many people forget about these days.

a reply to: SearchLightsInc

And don't think I believe their is no use for abortion.. It comes down to how it is used. If someone is raped and falls pregnant I believe they have the right to abort the baby but that is different to someone going out screwing around knowing full well what the consequences are if they happen to fall pregnant. It comes down to common sense and if women cannot use that to their advantage then they deserve the burden of an unwanted child.

Maybe it will help them grow up a bit.

originally posted by: SearchLightsInc

originally posted by: Hoosierdaddy71

originally posted by: SearchLightsInc

originally posted by: Hoosierdaddy71

originally posted by: SearchLightsInc

originally posted by: Hoosierdaddy71
a reply to: SearchLightsInc

My last line was "when" the baby has rights.
So just for #s and giggles when do you feel the baby has rights?
Myself being an atheist and having low moral standards (being a blasphemer) lol..
I feel the first trimester is a good happy middle ground but what do I know, how bout you?

That's not the question that concerns me, I'm genuinely stumped that some deem the pregnancy a woman's responsibility and yet attempt to remove all decision making from her hands because she's not responsible enough???

Haha!
Now who's avoiding the question?
I agree that men are equally responsible for pregnancy.
Now when does the child get the right to choose to live?

I don't know, why don't you start a thread about it and stop trying to move away from the OP?? This isn't about when the potential human becomes human, it never was.

That's exactly what it's about....
Your wondering why someone has any authority to tell you what to do, but you fail to realize that the baby might have rights.
You have the right to get pregnant.
You have the right to use birth control.
Your organs your rights, simple enough.
But and here's the big but, when you get pregnant there are another set of organs that are not yours.

No, if this thread was about the unborn then the title would be "when does an unborn child gain rights"

No where in the OP is the unborn even mentioned because the unborn has absolutely nothing to do with what this thread is about. This thread is hardly about women's right either, it's about the illogical argument of holding someone accountable for their actions and then removing decision making from their hands because you don't believe they are responsible enough to make decisions.

I don't appreciate you hi-jacking this thread by trying to change the point of discussion. If your concerned about the unborn, go start a thread on it. If you actually want to discuss the issue I've raised, stay on topic.

How can you say the unborn has nothing to do with this thread? Pro life is in the title... Which by the way i never once said you can't make "that" decision. I personally don't care what you do.
I am only pointing out that many people feel that as soon as you get pregnant the baby has rights to, and that you are not allowed to decide if it lives or dies. Factors change when a woman becomes pregnant do they not? There is an old saying "eating for two". That means two people, not one and none.
I am very clearly answering your op question, you just don't like my answer. No thread hi-jacking here.
So I will make it as clear as I can.
Nobody cares what you do to yourself, but when a baby is involved it's not just about you anymore. Thats their "illogical" argument. That is why i asked you when you think that little pile of cells becomes a life. So how bout you stop trying to turn this op into a lecture and exchange some information by answering that question. My personal opinion is that you just want to complain about pro lifers and don't really care what anyone else thinks.

originally posted by: smithjustinb

originally posted by: SearchLightsInc

Okay so, do you deem the women fully responsible for the pregnancy?

Do you deem the father has half the choice of whether or not a baby can be aborted?

Are you okay with abortions that are sanctioned by the sperm donor? Or, are you just trying to put one more obstacle in the path of a woman seeking an abortion, suggesting that she should need a permission slip from the sperm donor?

originally posted by: smithjustinb

well it's their damn life not yours.

Its the child's life actually. It becomes official shortly after the sperm hits the egg.

Ask him how he feels about it?
But you can't right, because it isn't a sentient being.

Case closed, neeeext.

Oh yeah and, it's not your damn life. Do like other conservatives do and only care about yours.

originally posted by: smithjustinb
She can be told what she can or can't do with someone else's. (body)

Well no you can't...

What can't you understand?
The whooooole rest of you life, you don't want to be controlled by no one and now you want to control someone elses life. A fertilised egg is worth barely nothing, unless you have problems yourself, oh sorry.

You want guns, that your life.
She is not ready for a baby, that's her life.

Not. Yours.

Hello?

a reply to: DarknStormy

And don't think I believe their is no use for abortion.. It comes down to how it is used. If someone is raped and falls pregnant I believe they have the right to abort the baby but that is different to someone going out screwing around knowing full well what the consequences are if they happen to fall pregnant. It comes down to common sense and if women cannot use that to their advantage then they deserve the burden of an unwanted child.

So, you believe that a woman who finds herself with an unwanted pregnancy deserves to be punished by being forced to give birth to an unwanted child? You think children should be used as punishment for a few minutes of pleasure?

Is sex the sin, or getting pregnant the sin?

a reply to: Hoosierdaddy71

A girl baby is born with all her eggs already in tact. They were part of her body at birth and they're part of her body at the time of ovulation. They don't suddenly stop becoming part a woman's body because of fertilization. It is still part of her body, until it exists her body.

A woman owes her eggs no promise of personhood. A sperm donor is just that, a donor. It's up to the recipient to decide what to do with his donation.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Hoosierdaddy71

A girl baby is born with all her eggs already in tact. They were part of her body at birth and they're part of her body at the time of ovulation. They don't suddenly stop becoming part a woman's body because of fertilization. It is still part of her body, until it exists her body.

A woman owes her eggs no promise of personhood. A sperm donor is just that, a donor. It's up to the recipient to decide what to do with his donation.

So that must mean that a man has no financial responsibility to the child correct? No more say in the matter than a blood donor.
And for the record I'm not against abortion. I'm only trying to answer the op question.

originally posted by: theMediator

originally posted by: smithjustinb

well it's their damn life not yours.

Its the child's life actually. It becomes official shortly after the sperm hits the egg.

Ask him how he feels about it?
But you can't right, because it isn't a sentient being.

Case closed, neeeext.

Oh yeah and, it's not your damn life. Do like other conservatives do and only care about yours.

when exactly in a child's development cycle does it become sentient?and I mean that as a serious question.when my wife was pregnant I can tell you that our baby reacted to the outside environment.because she was a sentient being at that time.where exactly would you draw the line?

a reply to: windword

I swear I'm about to get banned. You need to stop calling all men sperm donors. Its highly offensive to those of us being railroaded by the biased chancery courts. There's a huge difference between a sperm donor and a man who would die protecting his kids.

a reply to: windword

It's pretty simple, use something called common sense so you don't end up in that position.. Me and my ex used something called birth control when we were not looking to have a child = Common Sense..

Having sex knowing full well of the consequences and ignoring those consequences only to find out your pregnant and don't want the child = Irresponsible

Our brains can't be that gutted of common sense these days can it? We wouldn't need abortion clinics is people used the thing inside their stupid heads.

a reply to: DarknStormy

Birth control is not 100%..
Just saying..

originally posted by: Hoosierdaddy71
a reply to: DarknStormy

Birth control is not 100%..
Just saying..

Birth control worked in my situation and a few other people I know that used the same option. One has a 99% rate that I know of. But what about Condoms? Seriously, this thing can be prevented with common sense from both parties involved. It may seem like I'm having a dig at the women but there is a male side to this also and they are just as stupid as the women who allow it to happen.

You would think two minds could work this out on their own without having to suffer the consequences somewhere down the track. When I think of this and sorry to be brutally honest, I see two irresponsible people who couldn't give a crap about the consequences that follow. If they are willing to put themselvs in that position in the first place, why should I feel sorry for them? They did it, not me.

a reply to: DarknStormy


I've heard condoms have ripped, never with me but it happens. You have an if you play you pay attitude.
I think adoption should be made easier and cheaper. That would probably reduce abortions but that's just my opinion.

originally posted by: Hoosierdaddy71
a reply to: DarknStormy


I've heard condoms have ripped, never with me but it happens. You have an if you play you pay attitude.
I think adoption should be made easier and cheaper. That would probably reduce abortions but that's just my opinion.

I know a women who had a daughter when she was 16.. Guess what this weasel is doing now? She is about 4000km away after giving up her daughter to her Grandmother and is now partying with her friends.. Too me this bi**h deserved to be born sterile.

I know of another who done the exact same thing except after she had finished with her drugs and partying, decided she wanted her daughter back. This is the mindset of our future generations. They bring these children into the world and leave them for dead because they know someone else is going to do their f**king job for them.

So is adoption an answer? Yes because adoption is helping fix a problem which is already here.. And if I had my way, the two people above would be lucky to see their daughters again because of their selfish irresponsible choices. I would agree that adoption should be easier but there are some sick pricks out there also who would cease that opportunity.

originally posted by: windword

Are you okay with abortions that are sanctioned by the sperm donor? Or, are you just trying to put one more obstacle in the path of a woman seeking an abortion, suggesting that she should need a permission slip from the sperm donor?

I'm not okay with abortions except in extreme circumstances. Am I trying to put obstacles in the way of baby killers? You bet I am. Should she need permission from the father? She shouldn't have the option in the first place.