Aliens and UFOs – Is Your Church Ignoring The Elephant In The Room?

a reply to: Hoosierdaddy71

A fair point, but is there techniqually proof of their God and the "demons"?

Just saying. If we are going on the argument that they disbelieve in ET because there is no proof, I will tell you, for my whole childhood my parents were in fear of having anything potentially demonic in the house (any books or movies with an occult reference or undertone for example) for fear of attracting the "demons" despite us never having had any actual experience to suggest they were even real.

I can also assure you that even if ET literally showed up, I once knew a few who would have been huddled in the church praying for the deception to go away.

I'm not saying they shouldn't believe what they believe. Just pointing out that little contradiction.

originally posted by: Specimen
I doubt E.T cares about religion at all, anymore then the religions caring about the true nature of E.t.

If E.t considered or believed it self to be actually divine, or try to spread some holy gospel, then I would definitely considered it some form of a...what you would call a Christian deception. Where it would consider itself royalty among all life, and has the ego that would match that of the Devil, or even God for that matter.

Thankfully, I dont think E.t gives a crap about most religions at all. If anything, religion wants to give a crap about Aliens, cause they feel it more realistic, or some how related to their cause.

Like their were knight in shining armor, wearing the brand of god, trying to save some virgin princess from a fiery Dragon

If anything, the religious are the elephants in the spaceships.

You are assuming that other sentient beings elsewhere in the universe don't have some kind of deity. Based on the fact that humanity all over the world has had some kind of deity since almost its conception, and you really have no other sample to measure against, I'm not sure what could make you so sure?

I absolutely adore *sarcasm* those that say that they don't want to hear about bible thumpers b/c they are ignorant, YET put demons & fallen angels in the same family, when they're two totally different things.

I also enjoy those that are so dismissive at the possibility that aliens are nothing more than meatsacks for demons to wear.

Most non-religious ppl that study ufos seriously have acknowledged ad nauseum that aliens probably didn't fly here from a great distance to visit Earth, chances are that they are trans-dimensional travelers. Ships that can make a 90 degree turn at mach 3 or higher are not a life form that we can understand, seeing as how the stress on a biologic would be lethal.

Seeing as how these beings, (not all obviously) have a high interest in our "fun parts" much like they did during the ante-antediluvian age, its not a stretch to wonder if in fact these things are the spirits of the nephilim of old. (Which is in fact what demons actually ARE.) Fallen angels procreated with human women and made nephilim, demons require a body, not that difficult really.

Also considering the messages of those that aren't malevolent; you're your own god, we are all one, all religions lead to the same place, etc. Yeah, you're right those bible-thumpers are sooo delusional!

Personally? I'm torn thinking either the anti-christ will be muslim (al-mahdi) or alien, invoking the gods (aliens) of old to fix today's problems. When you realize that the Titans in greek mythology DID exist, who to say how much myth is in mythology?

You may continue with your god-hating now.

a reply to: strangechristian777

Probably the same reason that the church used to murder/torture people that didn't believe that the Earth was the center of the universe-or that the Earth wasn't flat.

Their greatest fear was people not seeing the church as the ultimate authority.

Religion is a business-and they will do anything to keep people from realizing that the universe is bigger than the religious hypocrite control freaks.

Notice that it is the church that believes that people can't handle the disclosure of proof of extra terrestrial life.

a reply to: windword

The vatican only did that to attract more members ($$$)

a reply to: MoonMystic

I agree. I happen to be an atheist myself so the whole god/demon thing is silly to me. Getting someone to change their faith is not an easy sell by any means.

Firstly, I saw an UFO ......and as it approached my position I began to go into a sort of mental overload of mixed emotions....running the gamut from sheer babbling panic to triumphant confirmation......
There was a point where my mind kind of lost it there.....
At that very moment the UFO shot away at an impossible and seeming inertialess 170 degrees from its heading....It looked like a lightbulb going out in a darkened room it left so fast.....
It was my impression they were being kind to me in retrospect................
I think they are natural beings from a far place or places even......
Demons etc are fairy tales to scare believers into conforming and ponying up their tithes.....

a reply to: uncommitted

I think the God theory gets a little old. Sure you could look at various cultures and they have made such claims of heavenly power ruling the civilization in some fashionable way.

However, I think an advanced race of sentient beings whom have gotten past that point, where they are believed to supernatural, would follow some actual order of the universe. Even if it was fabricated, like personification, in some way, it could help with creativity in meaning.

Not like our primitve fabrications, that makes such claims and lack the creativity to absorb, and process to make something logical. Although, personally I think logical and being creative are polar opposites of the same coin, or brain for that matter. Since the brain and the heart are always at a tugg of war.

However, those deceptive fabrications probably provide some confidence, as well as relieve to our ancestors who were stuck in the dark.

Im just saying, any species that has gotten past that point, has had the time to transcend such constructs that has held that species together. Even to the point that they were self destructive, they grow up, and try to make new ways of life that would be self improving.

If you want, I can measure God against reality. Both are cruel and merciless.

"UFOs have nothing to do with little green men...". To me it seems like the source is just another ham-handed attempt to pound the round peg of the UFO/extraterrestrial issue into the comically desperate square hole of Christianity. The bible may indeed contain snippets of accounts of encounters with aliens, but it can by no means explain them. Churches are simply scared to admit that their God, which affords them their authority and power, will be undermined by the increasingly and patently obvious fact that we are not alone in the universe. Real disclosure will debunk primitive earthbound religion and there's too much power, influence and money at stake to consider the truth of it.

a reply to: schadenfreude

A point generally missed in these discussions is the fine point between religious ideas and (frequently infantile) dogma.

Personally, I have some complex ideas about my own version of reality that includes disembodied intelligences, a perhaps possible hierarchy and the myriad possibilities that spin off from that observation.

I, and most of the "anti-religious," really mean to question the more human based, anti curious and logical, control mechanisms that are often mixed with religions... a classic throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

I find much that is true and wise ... often astoundingly so... in various religions. It's the judgmental, manipulative, mind restricting tendencies that offend me... and many others, I'd imagine.

People who had to struggle for years to throw off the yolk of mental oppression and indoctrination, often reject the whole thing as "evil," when in fact, it is just those baser aspects they have learned to despise... with very good reason.

If pushed into a black and white corner, then I'd say we are better off, in general, losing religions... in general. I'd hope we could keep the truths, though, and use the discernment a possible creator gave us, to reject the crap.

a reply to: schadenfreude

I wouldn't have lumped all Christians into this category. The topic read: Is Your "Church" Ignoring The Elephant In The Room?

From my experience growing up in my old religion, yes it did. Many in the church chose their ignorance and would simply believe whatever was stated from the platform.

Many Christians do their research and like you said begin to connect these dots based on other text they go on to read and study. But it is for that same reason, I have found, that many of them distance them self from or leave their church entirely. Because often this extended research is frowned upon! This is what happened to my father, and it was the catalyst to us leaving the church as a family.

I agree that ET and inter-dimensional beings could be the same thing. But this would never have been openly discussed in my church. That would open up a whole new can of worms and force them to ponder all the possibilities that comes from looking into something like this. I suppose that is more my point; there was never that flexibility when trying to understand these things.

Furthermore, I do not hate God. I believe in a Divine presence that is not locked into the grid of religious constructs. I just always felt that there was more to the picture, and that it was ohhh so 2-dimensional and cheap to knock it all off as just evil nasty "demons."

a reply to: Iamthatbish

Anyone showing any true willpower would
have the same effect. They could call on
the Stay Puft Marshmallow man for all
it matters.

a reply to: schadenfreude

Ships that can make a 90 degree turn at mach 3 or higher are not a life form that we can understand, seeing as how the stress on a biologic would be lethal.

You are thinking in terms of our understanding of physics , if the ship were encased in an antigrav bubble then the occupants wouldn't be subject to the forces you speak of.

You may continue with your god-hating now.

Not believing in something does not equal hating.

a reply to: Baddogma

Not lumping all anti-religious ppl together, however can't you see the, (stupidity is too strong a word, but I hope you get my meaning) of basically saying "I don't believe in an all-knowing being, however I'm perfectly fine with believing in alternate lifeforms, that can defy physics in a way we can't easily understand and may have existed for 20K years longer than we have, thus making us as intelligent as BUGS compared to them."

*scratches head*

I'm genuinely befuddled by the anti-god crowd when it comes to the idea of being "intellectually dwarfed by religion" yet in doing so cut off all aspects of investigation/inquiry regarding things of a paranormal nature.

I've studied Macho Picchu, Bigfoot, Lemuria Atlantis Mu, Enki/Enkl Gilgamesh/Osiris, etc etc and I find the sad fact that we've been lied to about our ancient history, covered up b/c it doesn't fit "the narrative". Yet the SECOND I bring up a supreme being i'm labelled a retard.

KInda ends the discussion at that point.

Whereas when it comes to the elephant in the room, most ppl don't even accept the possibility of aliens, let alone their existence & how it would affect "the church". Heck the church doesn't affect hardly anyone right now anyway, even each other, so how are they material (in their current form) in the first place?

Just saying.

a reply to: gortex

"Not believing in something does not equal hating."

True, but despising an avenue of research cuts you off from possibly pertinent information.

The tower of Babel, for starters. I've always believed that it was a stargate, its the only thing that makes sense. They didn't build it on a mountain, they built it on the plains of Shinar, so height wasn't the issue, ergo.

Ultimately, whether aliens or nephilim, (and you could make the case for both) whenever you cut off discussion for an entire group of ppl by insulting their beliefs, rather than dialoguing with them, you end up hurting yourself not them.

(I hope you realize I'm using "you" in the general sense here)

I think the vastness of space and flat out dismissing ideas when you're a curious person, is frankly stupid, but maybe that's just me.

*shrugs

a reply to: schadenfreude

Not lumping all anti-religious ppl together, however can't you see the, (stupidity is too strong a word, but I hope you get my meaning) of basically saying "I don't believe in an all-knowing being, however I'm perfectly fine with believing in alternate lifeforms, that can defy physics in a way we can't easily understand and may have existed for 20K years longer than we have, thus making us as intelligent as BUGS compared to them."

*scratches head*

Only a few hundred years ago the mentality of a learned individual would naturally balk in disbelief that a mere mortal could fly, as we do everyday in airplanes, let alone the contraptions that NASA and DARPA have come up with. I see no connection in the mystery of apparently defying physics, as we understand it, and the existence of a "GOD". One thing has nothing to do with the other.

a reply to: schadenfreude

I get it and largely agree... unfortunately, the "god squad" is composed, mostly, of "retards" (with my apologies to the mentally challenged for being lumped in with the religiously indoctrinated).

Thus my post trying to refine the discussion. IMO belief in the possibility of a creator/source isn't stupid in the slightest... blind belief in Him and all writings ascribed to Him IS...

and most thoughtfully religious folks would mostly agree (in sentiment if not the exact wording).

a reply to: strangechristian777

My auntie sends my mother issues of 'Creation Magazine' which is a mag not even fit for toilet paper by a group who take the bible as literal truth... which for the interest of a good laugh I read when they arrive... The logical backflips they put to print in order to discredit or deny the existance of life outside of earth and or UFO's is truely amazing.

The thing is especially with literal interpreters of the bible like the "7 Dayer the bibles account of creation is 100% literal and we gotta shoe horn dinosaurs into it somehow" lot, especially genesis is that for them if the bible hasnt got something in it like UFO's or other planets with life on it then that must be fact or the bible is wrong because it is missing something, which cannot be, so therefore the only explanation is to slip them into a category the bible does mention... demons and the devil trying to tempt you away from what important , or to look outside the church or earth.

Any and every scientific idea or discovery about possible life outside of our planet (especially if it mentions intelligent life) gets mauled as if it was the devils spawn itself.

Extra solar life doesnt stop a persons belief in the bible or god or any other religion, but some people are so tentatively stuck into their own beliefs or tied into to it finacially that they think if they take their fingers out of their ears they think their head might explode. The bible doesnt mention life elsewere, but it also doesnt say any of that doesnt exsist either... if earth is gods little petri dish, what on earth is the other 99.9999999999999999999... etc etc ad infinitum of the universe for?!

You see em in this forum all the damn time...

The problem is like dino bones, they are finding they are starting to have to acknowledge it, and just like a few did a few hundred years back when they said dino bones where put in the ground by the devil to test the faith of Christians the exact same thing is happening with extra solar planets and life, given enough time eventually people like the 'creation mag' lot will shoehorn alien life into their system like they did with dinos and genesis and the noahs ark (funny how the bibkle mentions nothign about actual dinosaurs yet this lot say they have to have been on the ark, ie selective ideaologies UFOs arent in must be of the devil Dinos arent in but must have been on the ark even though no proof of that is in the bible) and it will start all over again with some other thing they cant explain using their old metaphorical and only slightly historical text.

Ignorance is bliss
Perhaps one day i will be smart enough to go around calling large groups of people "retards"

originally posted by: FalcoFan
a reply to: strangechristian777

Probably the same reason that the church used to murder/torture people that didn't believe that the Earth was the center of the universe-or that the Earth wasn't flat.

Could you point out examples of that? The 'everyone thought the Earth was flat' myth is fairly much dispelled everywhere (including on ATS), and has been for a long time. I'm not aware there are any records of anyone ever being murdered or tortured for saying it wasn't flat.

You would have thought Copernicus and Galileo would be the ones who would have been the candidates for torture and murder wouldn't you? Actually, the writings of Copernicus on his theories was actually endorsed by the Pope of the day and Galileo although admittedly placed in 'house arrest' continued both his writings and his social life until his death.

So......... could you provide some information to back up that claim?