Arizona-9 Year old girl kills gun instructer

a reply to: MOMof3

I don't disagree with you. I've said repeatedly in this thread that I believe handing an automatic firearm to a 9 year old is highly irresponsible. But I also think that people are allowing their hatred of firearms to cloud their perspective on this incident. Accidents happen with virtually any activity, and each year, some that we would consider relatively benign actually prove themselves much more likely to result in fatal accidents.

The point here is that some, in their haste to condemn all gun owners, need to consider that they themselves and their families likely engage in activities that, in fact, result in just as many if not more accidental fatalities yearly in this country. They can try to gloss over that or pass moral judgements as to the validity of the activity, but that's kind of irrelevant as it doesn't bring anyone back.

They need to develop some sort of harness that keeps these weapons firmly in hand.

a reply to: alldaylong

What part of "doesn't take into account why the country is safe or not" do you not understand? Georgia doesn't have tons of people fleeing the countries that border it with criminals masked in this crowd of people. There are tons of factors that go into how safe a country is and to compare one to the other and just say "see we don't have guns and you do and our country is safer," is a dumb argument. You are trying to say that correlation equals causation but your evidence of such is flimsy at best and a strawman at the worst.

How does this figure into your blind hate of American guns?
Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

a reply to: Logarock

Yeah, I was wondering about that one myself. A simple tether attached from near the muzzle to the table would have likely prevented this accident, even considering the rest of the circumstances involved.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: alldaylong

Georgia doesn't have tons of people fleeing the countries that border it with criminals masked in this crowd of people.
Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

How do you know that for a fact ? Not being reported in the MSN doesn't mean it don't happen.

Either put up or shut up.

a reply to: alldaylong

Ok.

Gun violence in US has fallen dramatically over past 20 years, Justice Dept. report finds

Study: Gun homicides, violence down sharply in past 20 years

Mass shootings are up; gun murders down

Should I keep going?

Here is the CDC website on youth homicides:
Youth Violence: National Statistics

CDC: Youth Homicides Reach 30-Year Low

Then there is this study that I linked earlier in the thread
Mass shootings toll exceeds 900 in past seven years

So let's cut with the hyperbole. Clearly you rabid anti-gun nuts are just blowing smoke.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: alldaylong

Ok.

Gun violence in US has fallen dramatically over past 20 years, Justice Dept. report finds

Study: Gun homicides, violence down sharply in past 20 years

Mass shootings are up; gun murders down

Should I keep going?

Here is the CDC website on youth homicides:
Youth Violence: National Statistics

CDC: Youth Homicides Reach 30-Year Low

A pointless reply.

It doesn't answer the question i asked.

Every single excuse you have offered in your previous posts i have shot down in flames by supplying FACTS.
Yet you still come back with yet more feeble excuses.

You must be another " It's all the Mexicans fault" apologists .

originally posted by: FreeQuebec86
a reply to: NavyDoc

I'm not english, soooo just read the news part ?

And pool are not make to kill people xD Gun yep. Your argument are flaw, wrong and you know it

.


NRA is the worst lobby of all times. Brainswashing americains for profit and deaths.

Gun are not tools.

No, logic dictates that when determining public health and safety issues, numbers are taken into account. When you take the numbers of guns per people and the accident rate and compare them to the number of drowning and the number of pools per people, one can see that statistically swimming pools are much more dangerous to children than guns. Just because you let a fear of one sort of inanimate object cloud your objectivity, one must look at the facts of the matter.

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: alldaylong

Ok.

Gun violence in US has fallen dramatically over past 20 years, Justice Dept. report finds

Study: Gun homicides, violence down sharply in past 20 years

Mass shootings are up; gun murders down

Should I keep going?

Here is the CDC website on youth homicides:
Youth Violence: National Statistics

CDC: Youth Homicides Reach 30-Year Low

A pointless reply.

It doesn't answer the question i asked.

Every single excuse you have offered in your previous posts i have shot down in flames by supplying FACTS.
Yet you still come back with yet more feeble excuses.

You must be another " It's all the Mexicans fault" apologists .

Yet you ignore the facts I've pointed out. Why does Fiji, an island with more gun control than the UK, have a much higher crime rate? I thought gun control made one safer, but the facts from YOUR sources do not demonstrate that.

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: vor78

Children should be in pools, bicycles, their parents cars. They do not belong on shooting ranges, gun shows, handling automatic firing weapons. That was an accident that should not have happened. "Guns don't kill, people do". Is that what you are going to tell that child?

Why? More kids get killed on their bikes than at gun ranges, by a huge margin. Do you not want kids to die or is it just that one type of death is more acceptable to you than others? One death by a child at a gun range in decades vs hundreds to thousands of deaths every year on bikes, but you worry about the single one? What is more important ideology or the lives of children? Ban bikes now!

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: alldaylong
Britain is a safer country to live than The U.S.

By just under 10% safer. And we don't need bloody guns to make us a safer place to live.

www.numbeo.com...

I wonder if you'd be singing the same tune about your country's safety if your country butted up against another country that happened to be a 3rd world country not ran by its government but by international criminal organizations that are EXTREMELY violent.

Oh yeah, guns are illegal in Mexico. How is that working out for them?

Your argument has little or no relevance. In fact it's total rubbish.

If you had bothered to look at the link, you would see that Fiji, and other ISLAND nations are unsafer to live in than The U.K.
As for size, The U.K. is 15 times larger than Fiji.

Here is the link again

www.numbeo.com...

Krazyshot's argument was totally VALID. not rubbish at all. We Americans absolutely NEED our right to own guns for MANY reasons, and practically ANY of those reasons can be a life and death reason. That isn't rubbish when not having that right could be the number one factor in contributing or causing your death here.
And folks in Mexico have had the help of our own president to BE ARMED against us here across the border, where many of those very weapons they gave to Mexicans, have already been used in the deaths of citizens and even government officials here across the border.
So, it isn't rubbish in the slightest every single point he made. (exclamation point)

When I think of the gall our leaders must have to do these kinds of treasons, I begin to also think of the gall it must take for others here and abroad to forget about it. We might end up needing your help soon even if you just bring your polo club, or cricket stick.

So in a nutshell you are saying that the reason for what is going on in The U.S. is all the fault of Mexicans..

That must be the reason why U.S. citizens have to arm themselves to the teeth.

en.wikipedia.org...

Your simplistic view is total bollocks.

That's funny. I was saying the same thing about your simplistic view of things.

originally posted by: Biigs

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: NavyDoc

So give me a number and time span. Two babies in less than 10yrs ain't enough apparently. How many gun packing 8 and 9 year olds would it take to convince you this is a bad idea.

Everyone here has said that it was a bad idea, so I don't get your silly rant. However, one death of a child and one death of an instructor in a decade does not make this a common occurance.

hes got a point.

you cant compare every accident to every other accident.

yes its very sad, but the guy gave a tiny girl a submachine gun, and then died because of that.

its not a dead baby, dead dog, drowned child (or adult) or anything else, HE GAVE A CHILD A WAR MACHINE

Drama much? HE gave the child a machine, not much different than many other machines. It was too much for her and this was a negligent act on his part.

a reply to: alldaylong

This is an odd reply. I just posted a bunch of facts and statistics that shows that gun homicides are down over the last 20 years and even that mass shooting deaths don't even top 1000 deaths in the last 7 years, meanwhile you post ONE link that analyzes the safety index for every country without saying why that country is there and try to say that the reason UK is safer than the US is because of guns (when that link was NEVER established in your link). And I'M the one who is giving excuses?

Like I said, your link is worthless in regards to this debate. It doesn't take into account WHY one country is safer than another and for you to just assume that the reason is guns is VERY dumb and dishonest, because we both know that there are a multitude of factors that go into why a country is safer than another and guns would only be ONE of those factors (not all). You are being unbelievably dishonest with stats and your blind hatred of guns is blinding you to the REAL stats that shows that gun violence is decreasing in this country and it isn't as big of a deal as the Democrats like to make it out.

Seriously YOU need to jump off the ban guns in America bandwagon. Not only are you GROSSLY misinformed about the issues, but you aren't even a citizen of this country. So your input is irrelevant.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: alldaylong

This is an odd reply. I just posted a bunch of facts and statistics that shows that gun homicides are down over the last 20 years and even that mass shooting deaths don't even top 1000 deaths in the last 7 years, meanwhile you post ONE link that analyzes the safety index for every country without saying why that country is there and try to say that the reason UK is safer than the US is because of guns (when that link was NEVER established in your link). And I'M the one who is giving excuses?

Like I said, your link is worthless in regards to this debate. It doesn't take into account WHY one country is safer than another and for you to just assume that the reason is guns is VERY dumb and dishonest, because we both know that there are a multitude of factors that go into why a country is safer than another and guns would only be ONE of those factors (not all). You are being unbelievably dishonest with stats and your blind hatred of guns is blinding you to the REAL stats that shows that gun violence is decreasing in this country and it isn't as big of a deal as the Democrats like to make it out.

Seriously YOU need to jump off the ban guns in America bandwagon. Not only are you GROSSLY misinformed about the issues, but you aren't even a citizen of this country. So your input is irrelevant.

Again, you avoided the stats i supplied with yet more feeble excuses.

You said:-

Britain is an Island. Irrelevant
Britain is a smaller country. Irrelevant
Britain doesn't border a country with a more criminal / violent record. irrelevant.

The stats i provided are not stats i collated myself.

As for not commenting on U.S. gun issues because i am not a U.S. citizen, then i hope to see in future that you don't comment on issues that occur outside The U.S.. I would hate to come back and call you a hypocrite.

Oh, hang on you have already commented on issues outside of The U.S.


www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...


You are a hypocrite.

originally posted by: Logarock
They need to develop some sort of harness that keeps these weapons firmly in hand.

Haha. Make sure people who should not be firing a weapon can. Maybe a setup so kids in cribs can remotely operate one.

Contrary to popular belief, a gun isn't a toy. Many of those who treat them as such are the one who get hurt.

a reply to: gottaknow

Yeah....I noticed that.
Woke up this morning and seen some people pointing it out. Guess I'm relegated to a fauxnews desk :/

I didn't read it....it was posted with haste. A simple goggle search of children having to defend themselves against intruders...etc. That was my point and it is why I will just leave "reason 1" up. I go back and edit it now and it would seem a bit strange...it was a mistake.

...the point, however, was made. Numerous stories can be found regarding such occurrences. It's why I posted the goggle results.

Anyways.....chalk up one fail, and one admission of failure by this humble man

*walks off and flogs self for seemingly not understanding satire. (wasn't the case, I just got lazy and didn't read what I posted)

....forgive me, lords of ATS!
(Thanks for the heads up btw.)

Giving a 9 year old an uzi.....STUPID idea. I hope I have made that clear while also cutting through to other things I was stating.

a reply to: alldaylong

I'm getting tired of repeating myself. Your link doesn't take into account why one country is safer than another. The few things I said about each country are just a drop in the bucket of the number of factors that go into a country being safer than any other. All those points about Britain are true and certainly DO factor into the safety of your country, but they are by no means all of the factors. There are factors that go into the safety of both of our countries that we could sit here all day listing. To pretend that guns are the ONLY thing effecting the safety of the country, like you are doing, is dishonest and a strawman as I've pointed out.

Also, I'm not going to let you hand wave away the REAL statistics from the fricking CDC saying that homicide deaths are down in this country. You may have had a point in the 80's or early 90's but since then, not only have we kept guns being legal in this country, but we've figured out how to keep have people kill less of each other with them. Clearly demonstrating that guns can be legal in the country and that doesn't necessarily mean that homicides will be through the roof. Meaning that not everyone owns a gun so they can go out and shoot someone.

As for not commenting on U.S. gun issues because i am not a U.S. citizen, then i hope to see in future that you don't comment on issues that occur outside The U.S.. I would hate to come back and call you a hypocrite.

You don't have to worry about that. As a Libertarian, I don't like telling other people how to live their lives and that they can't do something that they want to do as long as it doesn't harm me or someone else; unlike you. I certainly don't like telling other countries how to run their countries. I'm not a citizen of those countries so I have no business telling them how to run them. If you knew anything about my posting history, you'd know that what I speak is the truth.

I'm always against the United States intruding in international affairs and am pro-isolationism.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

That's a news thread... The only reason I put my personal opinion in that thread is because that is part of the T&C. This is the third post in the thread.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

That is a thread about Israel attacking other countries and MY solution to cut off US aid to Israel. Good god, you are grasping at straws here...

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: alldaylong



You don't have to worry about that. As a Libertarian, I don't like telling other people how to live their lives and that they can't do something that they want to do as long as it doesn't harm me or someone else; unlike you. I certainly don't like telling other countries how to run their countries. I'm not a citizen of those countries so I have no business telling them how to run them. If you knew anything about my posting history, you'd know that what I speak is the truth.

Your hypocrisy astounds me.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: alldaylong

Nicely played.

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: alldaylong



You don't have to worry about that. As a Libertarian, I don't like telling other people how to live their lives and that they can't do something that they want to do as long as it doesn't harm me or someone else; unlike you. I certainly don't like telling other countries how to run their countries. I'm not a citizen of those countries so I have no business telling them how to run them. If you knew anything about my posting history, you'd know that what I speak is the truth.

Your hypocrisy astounds me.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Again, I said that thread was about me saying that the US needs to cut aid to Israel. I certainly have a say in where my country sends the tax money it collects from me. Seriously, read the thread and what I said in it. Since the US is involved in Israel's affairs already, I can have an opinion on the matter (which is to stop interfering in their affairs). Meanwhile Britain has ZERO leg in the gun debate here in the United States. Grasping at straws... You clearly don't have a point anymore so you have stooped to character assassination against me. Such high brow debate tactics there, boy.