Crashes Of Convenience - MH-17 Startling report show Jet downed with Bullets!!

originally posted by: AlphaHawk
Hmm, so just so I understand..

They strip out a su-25, enough for it to exceed not only it's maximum ceiling, but also its maximum speed to intercept mh-17, modify it's gun from a 30mm to some smaller caliber gun without affecting aerodynamics and this is the "convenient" and "easy" option?

Sounds like an awful lot of effort to pretend it was shot down by an anti-aircraft missile when the claimed missile is known to be used in the area, is capable of shooting down mh-17 with zero modifications and leaves similar damage to what's seen on mh-17.

hang on am i getting confused here ?or are we yet to see any evidence other than conjecture through the msn ?

a reply to: Zaphod58

thankyou for the reply....this is where i am getting confused nothing we are being told makes any sense......in my view anyways...i am still wondering where the hell mh370 went

a reply to: Zaphod58

To be totally honest with you, the first I heard of the " bullet holes" was from this video - and the reason I took it at face value was -

1. Corbett is very meticulous with his research, and in the photo he showed although random holes were present , there were seemingly a few in a vertical line - looking like bullet spread.

2. The OSCE concluded that there was no evidence of a missile strike , but they did describe small "shrapnel like" holes but an unknown cause.

3.If the investigators say no evidence of missile strike - I took that to mean an alternative means of destruction, but I suppose it also could mean just nothing found of the missile?

The important point here isn't whether a cannon or missile was used, the important thing is that it is so obviously a false flag by the Ukrainians probably on behalf of the US, to continue their push toward Russia.

The embarrassing way the state department has used only social media and rumor to base their case, in contrast the Russians prove a Ukrainian jet was closing - and don't say it was Russian because you know as well as I do , if that was the case - The "Allies" would easily detect that on radar, and would have accused Russia of owning the plane , and provide proof like Russia has done.

Have you watched the video or visited the site Zaphod? Because from the points I have made through the thread we can see clearly something amiss here with the wests approach and reaction.

What about the Spanish ATC who has been confirmed real? He tweeted that Kiev was responsible for it and the military has taken over the Control Tower. Also that the jet didn't shoot it down.

Why won't they release the cockpit transcripts if there is nothing to hide?

Why is the investigation being effectively classified?

You either don't believe our governments are capable of these terrible actions, or you have other motives.

I just can't believe that people can't see how blatant it is.

Jesus I don't know why I keep bothering.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

If it's conjecture from the MSM, then what do you call the information in this thread??

I'm just posting known facts about the su-25 and how absurd the theory is when these facts are known...no conjecture.

originally posted by: AlphaHawk
a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

If it's conjecture from the MSM, then what do you call the information in this thread??

I'm just posting known facts about the su-25 and how absurd the theory is when these facts are known...no conjecture.

i agree....it is pure BS....that is what i am having trouble with...where is the evidence and why the hell do we not have any at all after all this time?

originally posted by: Soapusmaximus
a reply to: hellobruce

But the OSCE found no evidence of a missile strike, and the evidence all points to the Ukrainians whichever way you slice it.

I have just read all the OSCE press releases and have not been able to find one press release whereby they have said anything near to what your OP is suggesting.

Please see the following link that is from the OSCE Press releases on the MH17 tragedy:

=bundle%3Apress_release]OSCE Press MH17 Releases

The only other sources I have seen that agree with your OP are from other Alternative Websites and Conspiracy websites and not covered by MSM at all. Surely the OSCE would tell MSM the same findings that they have allegedly told other alternative news reporters.

I think that sites such as the one in your OP and Infowars etc have all seen someone with a "Hypotheses" and run with it without even checking their facts.

Please do look at the press releases I have supplied above as I may be mistaken but I have not seen anything that supports your OP.

originally posted by: Soapusmaximus
a reply to: Zaphod58

2. The OSCE concluded that there was no evidence of a missile strike , but they did describe small "shrapnel like" holes but an unknown cause.

Where have they concluded this, please show a source as I cannot find anything remotely similar to this on their own website.

a reply to: Soapusmaximus

LOL... Angry much.. take it down a notch

a reply to: Zaphod58

Bit of an ego there what?

No offence , but you obviously think you are infallible - you have it all figured out and are tirelessly crusading on ATS , seemingly always with a con view.

Why do you even bother?

Good question.

a reply to: Soapusmaximus

Not in the least. I'm just as fallible as the next guy, but everything you bring up in this thread has been brought up in every other MH17 thread with the same result.

You and everyone else see this as either Russia did it or was involved, or the Ukrainians did it, both for their own reasons. There is no middle ground.

The truth is almost certainly somewhere in that middle ground. But it won't be found on ATS because all these threads have turned the world into black and white with no gray.

It has reached the point where you can interchange Russia and Ukraine depending on who is talking because both sides of the argument are saying the same damn thing about the other. No one is interested in the truth, they are interested in defending their side and being right.

a reply to: Soapusmaximus

2. The OSCE concluded that there was no evidence of a missile strike , but they did describe small "shrapnel like" holes but an unknown cause.

And here is what the main guy that was out there for the OCSE...

www.cbc.ca...

Also he says he didn't see any signs, but he isn't trained to look for them either.

a reply to: Soapusmaximus

No offence , but you obviously think you are infallible - you have it all figured out and are tirelessly crusading on ATS , seemingly always with a con view.

Well, he is just trying to Deny Ignorance...what's wrong with that?

And for those who seem to think the plane that shot down MH17 should look at what the SU25 manufacturer says about that plane...

www.sukhoi.org...

And this is the model that Russia says was used to down MH17.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Well let's take the plane theory it was a plane ... wich fighter can be at that speed and altidude. The su-25 already proven not able to do it ... so what is left ?

Let take it can be any nation near that location not only Ukraine and or Russia

a reply to: flammadraco

I didn't claim they said it in any press release - it is in their official report , they wouldn't draw attention to that fact in press releases, that would defeat the point and publicise the counter explanation.

reply to: tsurfer2000h No actually Russia has said nothing of the sort, in fact they have merely provided proof that a radar blip was detected breaking above 5000 meters and tailing the Boing 777 .

They have never made any accusations, unlike the west - Russia has only showed the facts from what I and many others can tell (I am talking about this shootdown event, I am not claiming Russia doesn't lie.

a reply to: Soapusmaximus

The radar return that only appeared as MH17 was breaking apart in flight, stayed directly over an area where other aircraft had already been shot down, and disappeared at almost exactly the same time that debris from the plane would have stopped showing up on radar?

a reply to: Zaphod58

Don't tar me with the same brush as everyone else - we are all individuals and entitled to an opinion.

I can defend my opinion with evidence - and this is the point we should focus on - As you say both sides blame each other, using seemingly similar tactics.

But with little effort and close scrutiny this particular event can most definitely be shown to be overwhelming likely to have been Ukrainian responsibility.

Both sides are making similar claims , but the difference is Russia has nothing to gain from the event - and has shown evidence to back their claims.

The new Ukrainian shill government and even more so the corrupt US government both are gaining from this, because that was the plan all along - and they are making claims about separatists and Putins missile, but have quite obviously embarrassed themselves with the standard of evidence they would convict Russia on.

I don't see you arguing any of my points, you're a mod you should be a little more respectful I feel. You have consistently countered my opinion in this thread, yet apart from the 30mm cannon thing - you have shared no details or addressed my points of support to this belief.

I don't consider that a representation of denying ignorance - more like proliferating it.