President Obama signs $8.7 billion food stamp cut into law

originally posted by: jrod


Still blaming the poor for the rich siphoning off the working class's wealth?

When did I solely blame the poor??
As addressed to you a while ago, I already stated this.
Care to keep up, or just add BS remarks?

originally posted by: jrod
I seriously doubt you have a high school level understanding of economics.

Ohhh ouch. That really really really really hurt.
So, ask me about how my personal business is doing....with that low level of economic understanding.

originally posted by: jrod
College in the US today has become one great debt/servitude scam. The vast majority who go to college for a better paying job end up with an extra monthly payment for the rest of their lives while not making much more than their counterparts with no degrees.

And what is the point of this statement??

originally posted by: jrod
College is not an option for everyone.

Never said it was or should be.
Someone has to dig ditches or flip burgers.

Yay, got it in one.

originally posted by: macman
Why work then, when you can just start at 10?

Why work? So that you can get to 11+.

And yet again. You choose to live where you do, then complain about your situation in life.
Sounds like you are more concerned with everyone else.

I do choose to live where I do because it means I can get an education now, and not go into lifelong debt over doing so. I'm not demanding that jobs for my skill set show up in my area, but I am demanding that jobs in general show up. I see it as perfectly reasonable to expect, demand, and argue for policies that create a healthy economy. The lower class being able to participate in the economy is a necessary part of having a strong economy. Do you think that it was a mere coincidence that when our lowest income earners were still able to purchase homes and raise families on their wages that our economy was very strong?

Transportation is not the Govt responsibility.
And most Public transportation is offset highly by taxes.

Public transportation is not offset by taxes. Due to a lack of increases in the gas tax to keep pace with inflation, the public funding for public transportation has been on a decline for many years. Ohio pays well over 50% of the cost of public transportation through fares. Most cities cover the expansion of programs like subways through bonds rather than taxes.

And you have chosen to live where jobs are not plentiful.
All of these things are based on decisions you made.

All areas need jobs.

You are really thinking that asking for a raise is entitled?
My pay is not an entitlement. It is the rate of compensation for my work.
You clearly have no clue do you.

Of course it is. Demanding a wage is an entitlement, as is asking for a raise. Why do you deserve more when someone else is willing to do your same job for less?

More excuses.
Go learn a skill. Go get a job.

I have a skill, people in general have skills. The jobs don't exist. We have people with masters degrees working as fry cooks. Why do you think that is? How would you fix it?

Got love it when someone lives their life by statistics.
Stick with that mentality. It seems to suit you really well.

There's a difference between recognizing/understanding statistics and letting your life be ruled by them. Nowhere did I say I won't try, but I go into it knowing chances are I will fail. Does that mean it's not worth the attempt? No. But it does mean there should be another path for when it doesn't work out.

Oh good hell.
Unless a person/company owns a person and/or that person performs work for no compensation it is not slavery.
This redefining of terms is really old.

Were company towns slavery? If not, then what were they? The poor today are essentially living in company towns.

Burrowing money is never a good thing.
But, it is not my problem for others to do so.
Their choice, their burden.

So you think usury is perfectly fine and totally acceptable in society if both parties agree to it?

Forgiven??? Why?? He made the choice.

Because they're predatory? Illegal by federal law aside from a hastily given government exemption to itself? Have unfair bankruptcy protections? Legally qualify as usury? One year of school and some bad decisions does not entitle someone to a debt so large that they can never repay just the interest on even heafter a lifetime of work.

We are not other nations.
If you like this offering of other countries, you are free to leave for them.

I'm not the one trying to change the country, you are. Perhaps you would prefer Singapore? They have a low tax rate, no social safety net, and no minimum wage plus a booming economy. Oddly enough even they have recognized the immense value in subsidized education.

Seeing that the states were left with this Right, yes. As that was the design.

So you're not actually against taxes, you're just against taxes when it's the feds collecting them rather than the city/state?

Yep, because without Govt, nothing would have been invented or created.
Gotta love this mentality.

I didn't say that. There's value in private innovation too. Non profit innovation however is something that provides society a good. If we relied on private innovation we never would have invented the laser and many medications which treat illnesses with a low number of global cases per year wouldn't have been created either.

I have said it before.
Fed Taxation of income was never in the design of this Govt. It was left up to the States.
But, since we are left to be taxed by the Fed, a flat tax instituted would be the “fair” taxation.
15% on everyone, no write-offs, no deductions.

Or eliminate income taxes and instate a flat tax on consumption.

Why 15%? Why not 14%? Why not 13%? Why not 22%? Why not 50%? If you can't answer this how can you say that 15% is fair?

Ohhh ouch. That really really really really hurt.
So, ask me about how my personal business is doing....with that low level of economic understanding.

So far you have displayed no knowledge of economics on a macro scale. You have some experience with microeconomics through your business, but that's not what minimum wage or food stamps deals with.

Never said it was or should be.
Someone has to dig ditches or flip burgers.

If someone has to flip burgers don't they deserve a wage they can live on? It's a service that both society and the business owner have decided they need to hire someone to provide.

a reply to: macman

I have been on a bit of a vacation lately so maybe I have mistaken you for another poster.

Correct me if I am wrong, but have you not been writing that people with low wage job are stuck there because it is their own fault? Because they are too lazy to better themselves(like go to college for a better job)?

I'm pretty sure that was you. If not my bad. While I do think you make some excellent points in your posts, I feel strongly that most work low paying jobs because they are stuck with no way out, NOT because they are too lazy, inept to better themselves.

originally posted by: Aazadan
Why work? So that you can get to 11+.

Sooooo, everyone starts out at 10.
Now, why would you even utilize 1-9 then?? If everyone starts out at 10, there is no basis for the lower numbers.
This kind of thought is the epitome of Progressive fail.

originally posted by: Aazadan
I do choose to live where I do because it means I can get an education now, and not go into lifelong debt over doing so. I'm not demanding that jobs for my skill set show up in my area, but I am demanding that jobs in general show up. I see it as perfectly reasonable to expect, demand, and argue for policies that create a healthy economy. The lower class being able to participate in the economy is a necessary part of having a strong economy. Do you think that it was a mere coincidence that when our lowest income earners were still able to purchase homes and raise families on their wages that our economy was very strong?

You choose to live there.
Own up the Pros vs Cons on YOUR choice. Time to be a big boy and realize there are no guarantees in life…even if you really really really want something.
And I love that all other aspects of life, like the Progressive interpretation of the Constitution is dynamic in nature, and has Ebb and Flow, yet the economic standing of people should/has to be static.
The world has changed, so has the job market.
Big boy pants time.

originally posted by: Aazadan
Public transportation is not offset by taxes. Due to a lack of increases in the gas tax to keep pace with inflation, the public funding for public transportation has been on a decline for many years. Ohio pays well over 50% of the cost of public transportation through fares. Most cities cover the expansion of programs like subways through bonds rather than taxes.

Okay, maybe you should go and research what pays for the large portion of public transportation. Even in your response above, you state the Ohio public transit system is paid by 50% of fares. Where does that other 50% come from??
www.bizjournals.com...

For both Columbus and Cleveland, it means that well more than 90 percent of their total revenues come from fares and local tax dollars, while in Cincinnati it is slightly better at 84 percent thanks to a bit more federal aid.

Hmmmmm, taxes and federal aid…..or TAXES. I suggest you check your BS before you try it with me.

originally posted by: Aazadan
All areas need jobs.

And that is very nice. Thanks for sharing.

originally posted by: Aazadan
Of course it is. Demanding a wage is an entitlement, as is asking for a raise. Why do you deserve more when someone else is willing to do your same job for less?

Yeah….where I perform work for my compensation, the person receiving Govt handouts isn't working for those handouts.
And why do I earn more than another person, or they earn more than me?? Experience + knowledge + applied understanding + skill = X wage,

originally posted by: Aazadan
I have a skill, people in general have skills. The jobs don't exist. We have people with masters degrees working as fry cooks. Why do you think that is? How would you fix it?

Well, then there is your problem.
You and others have a skill that are not needed right now.
How does one fix this???? Go learn a skill that is in demand.

See, this is truly your issue and stance. It is narcissistic in nature. The world does not revolve around you and your college degree. The world revolves around needs outside that of what you and others ponied thousands of dollars for a piece of paper.
The job market does not, and will not conform to your skills. You must conform to the job markets needs of a skill.

originally posted by: Aazadan
There's a difference between recognizing/understanding statistics and letting your life be ruled by them. Nowhere did I say I won't try, but I go into it knowing chances are I will fail. Does that mean it's not worth the attempt? No. But it does mean there should be another path for when it doesn't work out.

And again. Since YOUR chances of failure are high, don’t be surprised when you do.
Having plans has little to do with your plan for expected failure.

originally posted by: Aazadan
Were company towns slavery? If not, then what were they? The poor today are essentially living in company towns.

Okay Alinsky.
Yet another example of trying to win an argument by redefining words and terms.

originally posted by: Aazadan
So you think usury is perfectly fine and totally acceptable in society if both parties agree to it?

I am a Libertarian. What you decide for your life is your choice, for you and you alone.
If personal debt is your choice, then so be it. Don’t expect me or others to carry your poorly chosen financial life.

originally posted by: Aazadan
Because they're predatory? Illegal by federal law aside from a hastily given government exemption to itself? Have unfair bankruptcy protections? Legally qualify as usury? One year of school and some bad decisions does not entitle someone to a debt so large that they can never repay just the interest on even heafter a lifetime of work.

Yep….because that damn loan officer snuck up behind him the day after he turned 18, put a bag over his head, drove him to the bank and made him sign the contract for a student loan….
Yep, very very predator in deed.
Did the person that pushed the paperwork look like this??

originally posted by: Aazadan
I'm not the one trying to change the country, you are. Perhaps you would prefer Singapore? They have a low tax rate, no social safety net, and no minimum wage plus a booming economy. Oddly enough even they have recognized the immense value in subsidized education.

And we have hit the dumbest statement on the internet this morning.
The country was not designed as you envision it.
Maybe go back and do some research into the formation of it.

originally posted by: Aazadan
So you're not actually against taxes, you're just against taxes when it's the feds collecting them rather than the city/state?

I never said I was completely against taxes. I am against a Fed Govt using a Progressive Tax to implement punitive actions against people that succeed in life, only to be Santa Clause for those that are not as successful so they can buy votes.
Being double taxed and triple taxed on items is the issue as well.
The States were left with the choice to tax. The Fed Govt was given a document that outlined exactly what is it allowed to do.

originally posted by: Aazadan
I didn't say that. There's value in private innovation too. Non profit innovation however is something that provides society a good. If we relied on private innovation we never would have invented the laser and many medications which treat illnesses with a low number of global cases per year wouldn't have been created either.

SO again, without Govt, these items would never become….

originally posted by: Aazadan
Why 15%? Why not 14%? Why not 13%? Why not 22%? Why not 50%? If you can't answer this how can you say that 15% is fair?

Why not 14%?? It makes me itchy. 13% screams too loud. 22% is just above drinking age and may not be able to handle the stress and 50% is too much.

originally posted by: Aazadan
So far you have displayed no knowledge of economics on a macro scale. You have some experience with microeconomics through your business, but that's not what minimum wage or food stamps deals with.

Well then Mr. Student with no higher job that Whopper Flopper. Please do explain Macro Economics. I can’t wait to read it.

originally posted by: Aazadan
If someone has to flip burgers don't they deserve a wage they can live on? It's a service that both society and the business owner have decided they need to hire someone to provide.

They deserve the wage the market has for their service.
If they want a higher wage, go get a job that has that higher wage. Of course, they will need to work their way there….unless we should just start everyone off as Lower Management, like a 10.

originally posted by: jrod

Correct me if I am wrong, but have you not been writing that people with low wage job are stuck there because it is their own fault? Because they are too lazy to better themselves(like go to college for a better job)?

I really haven't used the term lazy. That is something that has been injected by you and your buddy above your reply.
People have the jobs they have because that is what they have achieved to. Want a better job......go get it.
Of course, like I stated before. It will take work to get there. But.....they can get there.

originally posted by: jrod
I'm pretty sure that was you. If not my bad. While I do think you make some excellent points in your posts, I feel strongly that most work low paying jobs because they are stuck with no way out, NOT because they are too lazy, inept to better themselves.

Never really stated lazy.

a reply to: Aazadan

And you have chosen to live where jobs are not plentiful.
All of these things are based on decisions you made.


All areas need jobs.

Move to North Dakota

But workers in the oil and natural gas industry earned an average salary of $111,451 last year, Job Service data show, while mining jobs paid an average $80,174. Jobs that supported the mining industry, such as those at power plants, paid an average wage of $98,609 last year, data show

"There are a lot of opportunities for any skill set."

finance.yahoo.com... html

originally posted by: macman

I really haven't used the term lazy. That is something that has been injected by you and your buddy above your reply.
People have the jobs they have because that is what they have achieved to. Want a better job......go get it.
Of course, like I stated before. It will take work to get there. But.....they can get there.

It is not easy or even possible in most parts of the US to simply go find a better job or even a job at all. This may have been true 40 years ago in the USA, today that is simply not the case. There are many more workers than available jobs. Wages(when adjusted for inflation) continue to fall in the US, yet people like you still believe that this is the individual's fault.

Promoting the General Welfare of the people includes making sure the poor have enough food. Even the most moral man is about 5 meals away from being a savage criminal.

originally posted by: jrod

It is not easy or even possible in most parts of the US to simply go find a better job or even a job at all. This may have been true 40 years ago in the USA, today that is simply not the case.

Life is not easy.
And there are still many jobs to be had. Here is the issue. Those with a degree in 18th century Russian Literature aren't exactly in high demand, and therefore don't command a presence in the job market.

originally posted by: jrod
There is many more workers than available jobs. Wages(when adjusted for inflation) continue to fall in the US, yet people like you still believe that this is the individual's fault.

Yes, as there are still many jobs to be had.
Go perform a search in Monster or Dice for your area and do report back.

originally posted by: jrod
Promoting the General Welfare of the people includes making sure the poor have enough food. Even the most moral man is about 5 meals away from being a savage criminal.

And yet again, another bastardized misconception of what that means within the Constitution.


And..........it isn't just "food" for the poor. It is cell phones, housing, foodstamps for items not related to essential survival because they must be allowed to "decompress" from life's hard times and every other handout imaginable.

a reply to: macman

Promoting the General Welfare is part of the US Constitution. Maybe you should take a look at it sometime.

It costs much less to take care of the needy in the US via food stamps than our bombing campaigns in the Middle East.

a reply to: macman

Try trying to find a job with an arrest record, a revoked Driver's license, and about a 5 years gap in employment and get back to me.

The handful of jobs available are minimum wage with no room for advancement.

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: macman

Promoting the General Welfare is part of the US Constitution. Maybe you should take a look at it sometime.

It costs much less to take care of the needy in the US via food stamps than our bombing campaigns in the Middle East.

Govt Welfare is not.

Just looked. Can't find it anywhere, stating that the Govt should provide stuff and money to people.

If you see this, please let me know as that statement probably grew legs and ran off my copy of the Constitution.

Oh...and the statement of bombing the ME??? Yeah, that falls on deaf ears as I have stated countless times we should not be fighting wars for others. The ME needs to be left to kill each other.
And the money that would be spent on that, needs to be returned to the rightful owner.....the tax payer.

a reply to: macman

Promoting the General Welfare, what the hell does that mean to you?

a reply to: jrod

Ahhhhh. So now we have added issues for employment. SO, you, or this person with the arrest record, made a bad choice and now are suffering the consequences of that choice.

That person shouldn't have made that choice. Not my problem nor my fault...or anyone else's.


I guess this person is WAY above flipping burgers, you know....after committing a crime.

a reply to: jrod

Please go and read what I have stated before.

a reply to: Aazadan

www.dice.com...


837 jobs, tech jobs in Columbus alone.

jobsearch.monster.com...

1000+ jobs.

a reply to: macman

I am one of the luckiest people in the world. So far that luck has not led me to wealth, perhaps in the future.

The United States has become a bit of a police state. It is extremely difficult for one to actually experience a little but of life and attempt to Secure the Blessings of Liberty without having a few brushes with the law. That is the reality of the my life.

My Driver's License was revoked because I refused to continue to pay far car insurance when my Driver's license was suspended. I can get it reinstated but will take about $1000. My personal problems are not relevant to this thread and really none of your business. But go ahead and try to make me look like a lesser person because of my flaws!

If was not able to collect Food Stamps I would be forced to find other ways to find food. One can not simply live off the land anymore, some can argue there is a great conspiracy to make living off the land and off the grid illegal.

a reply to: macman

FAIL!

Very few are eligible for the the vast majority( 90%+) of the job listed on that search.

It also should be noted that most of the good paying jobs are simply posted because by law the company has to offer positions up the public, the reality is most already have something in line and are simply going through the motions to meet the legal requirements.

originally posted by: jrod

I am one of the luckiest people in the world. So far that luck has not led me to wealth, perhaps in the future.

Okay then.

originally posted by: jrod
The United States has become a bit of a police state. It is extremely difficult for one to actually experience a little but of life and attempt to Secure the Blessings of Liberty without having a few brushes with the law. That is the reality of the my life.

Police state or not, there are millions of fellow citizens that don't have this problem.

originally posted by: jrod
My Driver's License was revoked because I refused to continue to pay far car insurance when my Driver's license was suspended. I can get it reinstated but will take about $1000. My personal problems are not relevant to this thread and really none of your business. But go ahead and try to make me look like a lesser person because of my flaws!

Hey, you brought it up. Not me. Don't cry when you use it as a basis for your point, only to have it turned on you.
You expect to get a high paying job, with a criminal record, where you willingly committed an act to bring this upon yourself.
All your problem. No one else's.

originally posted by: jrod
If was not able to collect Food Stamps I would be forced to find other ways to find food. One can not simply live off the land anymore, some can argue there is a great conspiracy to make living off the land and off the grid illegal.

Maybe the choice made, that got your DL suspended, should be your issue. Not looking to others to carry you financially since YOU made that choice.

a reply to: jrod

Ohh, so it is the fault of society, thus the responsibility of the tax payer to carry the person that does not meet the requirements for those jobs listed??

Yep, no narcissism there..at all.


And unless you have proof, of those jobs listed, just being listed due to laws....what you state is about as much BS as it gets.