Yeah - Capitalism

The reason why Capitalism will never fully work is very simple. It all comes down to human nature. No matter what, greed will always run through our veins. As long as we have a system that thrives on making more and more, the end result is inevitable. We will end up with greedy people at the top(like we have now) who's only goal is to maximize profitability. No matter what the costs are. Capitalism is a disease within itself. It promotes selfishness and greed. Both in which are extremely dangerous. Especially when you have unlimited power and resources.

The idea of capitalism is romantic and the successes of capitalism are wonderful stories to tell your grandchildren.
However, underneath those layer lies a very dangerous system.



a reply to: FyreByrd

a reply to: sheepslayer247

Right now we have a system that funnels money upward and those in the middle, lower class have to spend all of their resources on basic needs.

That's BULLSNIP.

The American republic has endured for well over two centuries, but over the past 50 years, the apparatus of American governance has undergone a radical transformation. In some basic respects—its scale, its preoccupations, even many of its purposes—the U.S. government today would be scarcely recognizable to Franklin D. Roosevelt, much less to Abraham Lincoln or Thomas Jefferson.

In 2010 alone, government at all levels oversaw a transfer of over $2.2 trillion in money,

online.wsj.com...

ALL social programs are the BIGGEST expenditure of tax revenue taken from the 'people' to pay for their materialistic WANTS.

Is what communism is all about.

AND

IT HAS NEVER BEEN the function of this government or any government to provide for the materialistic wants of the masses.

IE COMMUNISM.

That has MORE blood on it's hands than any other form in all of human history.

Communism Killed 94M in 20th Century, Feels Need to Kill Again

Basically the purveyors of communism think so little of their fellow man they would ever support such an asinine ideology.

It is called evolution.

ALL people have the ability, and capacity to adapt to the environment. Hell that is how we supposedly became top of the food chain as some people say.

originally posted by: redeyeblue
Capitalism is destined to fail and fail badly at some point, there are far more losers than winners in capitalism, so if your on the winning side you have all the material wealth to prolong the status quo.
A new system is needed to benefit ALL of humanity, including those third world countries we currently give aid to, a system that everyone can contribute to and get equal returns for their efforts.
The current system is so one sided it amazes me that revolutions are not common place, especially in educated countries in the west. If the people of the world knew nothing of capitalism, then were told of its consequences on todays society, and were given a vote as to the system they could choose, capitalism would not be seen as a good idea.
It is the people who benefit from capitalism who praise it, since they have all the platforms and positions of authority then the voice of capitalism is the only voice other than communism which is not a good alternative.

I am self employed and have a business on two continents, yet i say that the very system that I have benefited from is so unjust and unfair towards the vast majority of the worlds population.

But that doesn't make sense and it self contradictory. You have done well under the system and I don't believe that you are dishonest or exploitive or greedy.

a reply to: pluginkid

The reason why Capitalism will never fully work is very simple. It all comes down to human nature. No matter what, greed will always run through our veins.

It takes two to Tango as they say.

"Gullibility" plays a larger part yes ?

Is Gullibility as disease ?

Is Gullibility playing a part in the Socialist systems ?

a reply to: xuenchen

Is Gullibility playing a part in the Socialist systems ?

I would say yes.

Their ENTIRE ideology is centered over money, and things.

They are the very embodiment of what they decry.

originally posted by: monkeyluv

originally posted by: Semicollegiate

Growing markets are nice, but capitalism needs only voluntary exchange.

The manditory growth meme comes from inflationist Keynesianism.

Capitalism requires growth for very obvious reasons. That is, the capital put into businesses come from profits, returns on investment, or newly created credit which can only have value if more resources and energy are turned into goods and services.

The growth of wealth through out society is a consequence of capitalism. Like the Industrial Revolution. If resources ever did become direly scarce, capitalism would still be the best system, even if the economy wasn't growing.

The price system is a system of communication. The closer the economy is to a free market, the more accurately the price of thing represents the thing's abundance or extinction. The price system would give everyone ample warning of shortages and time to make adaptations. Especially with the world wide communication network.

Capitalism assigns the best amount of activity to all resources, which matters even more when the resources are diminishing.

originally posted by: pluginkid
The reason why Capitalism will never fully work is very simple. It all comes down to human nature. No matter what, greed will always run through our veins. As long as we have a system that thrives on making more and more, the end result is inevitable. We will end up with greedy people at the top(like we have now) who's only goal is to maximize profitability. No matter what the costs are. Capitalism is a disease within itself. It promotes selfishness and greed. Both in which are extremely dangerous. Especially when you have unlimited power and resources.

The idea of capitalism is romantic and the successes of capitalism are wonderful stories to tell your grandchildren.
However, underneath those layer lies a very dangerous system.



a reply to: FyreByrd

Greedy people will always end up at the top. That's why is there is a top. The top always includes coercion, which is anathema to a free market.

Free market capitalism needs no top, and actively discourages one, because local business, as a whole, can always provide more specific and diverse service.

All of the multi-national corporations derive their strength from national and international legality, that is, from a top. None of those legalities aid in the distribution of goods at the lowest price. All of those legalities discourage individual commercial action in some way.

A "free trade" agreement can run for thousands of pages. A real free trade agreement would have no paper at all.

Capitalism is not coercion.

Greed without coercion is only motivation.

Individuals act from motivation to achieve ends. The more freedom allowed, the more ends can be achieved.

Free market capitalism is the only system that fully accounts for natural human activity.

Look,I totally understand what you're saying and you're correct in what you're saying. The point I'm trying to make is if capitalism truly worked, it would be working. Greed always finds it's way to the top because money becomes the only thing that matters. Regardless of the consequences. Capitalists always attack and shout out "socialist" bla bla bla. I'm not a socialist either. I don't think we have truly found a system that works. There's flaws in all systems imo. Capitalism probably works the best. It's just the few rotten seeds that ruin it for everyone else


a reply to: Semicollegiate

originally posted by: Semicollegiate
The growth of wealth through out society is a consequence of capitalism. Like the Industrial Revolution. If resources ever did become direly scarce, capitalism would still be the best system, even if the economy wasn't growing.

The price system is a system of communication. The closer the economy is to a free market, the more accurately the price of thing represents the thing's abundance or extinction. The price system would give everyone ample warning of shortages and time to make adaptations. Especially with the world wide communication network.

Capitalism assigns the best amount of activity to all resources, which matters even more when the resources are diminishing.

Growth is a result of capitalism, but capitalism also requires growth in order to continue. That's because capital comes from profits, returns on investment, or loans or investments available due to the guarantee of a return or interest. There can be times when there is no growth, but the long-term trend has to show the opposite.

Growth can only be maintained if there are replacement goods or resources that are available in the short term and that offer the same or better benefits, such as high energy returns. That is not always the case, as seen in oil.

Given that, capitalism cannot be sustained given diminishing resources.

a reply to: monkeyluv

Then how does Socialism survive given diminishing resources ?



[ Gulp ]

a reply to: Semicollegiate

As someone rightly pointed out, capitalism requires continuos growth which is impossible. It feeds on itself with resources and money, then we have the continuos widening gap between the rich and poor to add to that mix.
Only fools and benefeciaries proclaim capitalism as mankinds only hope, this will continue until a catastrophic collapse, or a revolution started by the growing population who suffer under capitalism.

There are other options to capitalism that could benefit all of humanity, these will never come to the fore as power, control, greed and complacency amongst leaders prevent it. It is time though we started looking at and promoting various options so as to at least raise awareness, it is the younger generation that can facilitate change but only if they are educated on alternatives.

Personaly I like a resource based economy which has the potential to change the world for the better for everyone, there is a lot of fine tuning needed within this concept but a great start would be the venus project.

a reply to: NavyDoc
Yes it seems contradictory but we all need to survive and live, I just happen to be good at what I do within a system which we all have to work in. It does not mean I agree with the system even though I profit from it, I would gladly give up most of what I have if it would end poverty or hunger in the world, I know this would never happen though so I play the game like everyone else. The entire monetary system needs shredding and reinvented in my opinion before we can help EVERYONE on this planet.

a reply to: FyreByrd

The idea and nature of capitalism has fascinated me for a long time.

The Vedic commerce was free and very minimal taxes were levied on goods. The agricultural tax was max 1/6 of produce, and merchandise taxes were even lower. There was no income tax and no property tax.

Your system is a loot through constitutional means. You name it capitalism, whereas your system is simply legalized plundering. This is also a very strong reason that your system is unlikely to last long.

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
Anyone that says that motivation is all that is needed to succeed has not thought about it.

Ah, I've thought it and experienced it so your assertion does not appear to be correct for every human being.

Buddy Ill never say this again but I pulled in over 150k last year. Because I am good? No. because I am smart? no. It was because I knew the right people and I was at the rigjt place at the right time. The world is a little bigger than what YOU experienced.

well put...but the majority of people in your income bracket think that they were smarter, and harder working. and the degree of smugness and righteous indignation toward poor people, rises with ever increasing personal wealth, no matter how they got it.

originally posted by: GargIndia
a reply to: FyreByrd

The idea and nature of capitalism has fascinated me for a long time.

The Vedic commerce was free and very minimal taxes were levied on goods. The agricultural tax was max 1/6 of produce, and merchandise taxes were even lower. There was no income tax and no property tax.

Your system is a loot through constitutional means. You name it capitalism, whereas your system is simply legalized plundering. This is also a very strong reason that your system is unlikely to last long.

I didn't know there was a Vedic system. I'd like to learn more. Thank you.

originally posted by: redeyeblue
a reply to: NavyDoc
Yes it seems contradictory but we all need to survive and live, I just happen to be good at what I do within a system which we all have to work in. It does not mean I agree with the system even though I profit from it, I would gladly give up most of what I have if it would end poverty or hunger in the world, I know this would never happen though so I play the game like everyone else. The entire monetary system needs shredding and reinvented in my opinion before we can help EVERYONE on this planet.

I feel the same way, I like sharing my 'stuff' in fact and it's one of the basic ways of developing community - sharing, helping and caring.

I too do okay, not great as this last crash took me way down, but I have valueable skills, so can bootstrap myself. But those skills I learned from other people, from public schools and my own work. As an eariler poster that does okay said, it's largly a matter of luck with some persistance thrown it. The biggest factor - the circumstances of your birth.

I'd gladly contribute much higher taxes to ensure everyone a basic living. It's a public safety issue as desperate people do desperate things to survive.

originally posted by: pluginkid
Look,I totally understand what you're saying and you're correct in what you're saying. The point I'm trying to make is if capitalism truly worked, it would be working. Greed always finds it's way to the top because money becomes the only thing that matters. Regardless of the consequences. Capitalists always attack and shout out "socialist" bla bla bla. I'm not a socialist either. I don't think we have truly found a system that works. There's flaws in all systems imo. Capitalism probably works the best. It's just the few rotten seeds that ruin it for everyone else


a reply to: Semicollegiate

In a truly capitalist system there would be no top. There would be no reason for it. The government produces nothing.
The consumer decides who gets the business, buy purchasing, and therefore has control over the system. Consumerism is the most democratic way.

The top will always be controlled by plutocrats. The average person can not stay near the top, by definition of the top.

originally posted by: monkeyluv

originally posted by: Semicollegiate
The growth of wealth through out society is a consequence of capitalism. Like the Industrial Revolution. If resources ever did become direly scarce, capitalism would still be the best system, even if the economy wasn't growing.

The price system is a system of communication. The closer the economy is to a free market, the more accurately the price of thing represents the thing's abundance or extinction. The price system would give everyone ample warning of shortages and time to make adaptations. Especially with the world wide communication network.

Capitalism assigns the best amount of activity to all resources, which matters even more when the resources are diminishing.

Growth is a result of capitalism, but capitalism also requires growth in order to continue. That's because capital comes from profits, returns on investment, or loans or investments available due to the guarantee of a return or interest. There can be times when there is no growth, but the long-term trend has to show the opposite.

Growth can only be maintained if there are replacement goods or resources that are available in the short term and that offer the same or better benefits, such as high energy returns. That is not always the case, as seen in oil.

Given that, capitalism cannot be sustained given diminishing resources.

Growth is not a requirement of capitalism. Replacement of capital goods is a cost of long term operation.

Capitalism means that all action is voluntary, because each individual owns, and therefore controls, his/her body and property.

The price system is the only way to determine, equally across all of society, what is scarce and what is abundant. Each individual can make appropriate decisions for his/her self based on that information.

Diminishing resources become motivation to seek alternatives, and the warning comes sooner through the price system.

originally posted by: redeyeblue
a reply to: Semicollegiate

As someone rightly pointed out, capitalism requires continuos growth which is impossible.

Capitalism is voluntary activity. It needs no more natural resources than any other system does.

It feeds on itself with resources and money,

... and provides more using those resources and money than any other ism.

then we have the continuos widening gap between the rich and poor to add to that mix.
Only fools and benefeciaries proclaim capitalism as mankinds only hope, this will continue until a catastrophic collapse, or a revolution started by the growing population who suffer under capitalism.

Fools and beneficiaries think that taking is the same as making.

There are other options to Capitalism that could benefit all of humanity, these will never come to the fore as power, control, greed and complacency amongst leaders prevent it.

Actually the leaders constantly act to prevent Capitalism by restricting freedom of action and taxing real production. In the 1920's, the standard of living would have increased evenly through out society because of deflation. However, the FED kept prices high through inflation, in the name of price stabilization, and ultimately caused the Great Depression.

The Great Depression is blamed on Capitalism. That lie is typical and necessary in the anti-Capitalistic ideology or "religion".

Deflation is not bad in itself. It means that the price of everything is decreasing. Most, if not all, of the 1800s and the Industrial Revolution in America happened in deflation.

It is time though we started looking at and promoting various options so as to at least raise awareness, it is the younger generation that can facilitate change but only if they are educated on alternatives.

Yes, the younger generation has been propagandized into our proto-socialistic mush minded outlook for at least 100 years.

That is how you did it.

Eventually the truth becomes known and then Capitalism will be the only way of economics.

Personaly I like a resource based economy which has the potential to change the world for the better for everyone, there is a lot of fine tuning needed within this concept but a great start would be the venus project.

If wishes were horses, dreamers would ride like kings.

originally posted by: redeyeblue
a reply to: NavyDoc
Yes it seems contradictory but we all need to survive and live, I just happen to be good at what I do within a system which we all have to work in. It does not mean I agree with the system even though I profit from it, I would gladly give up most of what I have if it would end poverty or hunger in the world, I know this would never happen though so I play the game like everyone else. The entire monetary system needs shredding and reinvented in my opinion before we can help EVERYONE on this planet.

You can give everything you have beyond what you need to survive right now. Isn't saying "I'm waiting until everyone gets covered all at once" a bit of a copout?