Ukraine Refugees Hit by Rockets, Ukraine Blames Rebels

a reply to: earthling42

Back in March 'russia today' reported about how Russia was the only country able to transform Amerika into a pile of ash.
Why would this be?

Why would it not be...or is it okay that only America gets to earn that accolade?

On russian forums i read about how he despises the west, wants the EU to break up, Amerika and Obama are made fun of, and while that is ok, we sometimes make fun of russia, it is clear that Russia is going down the path of war.

It doesn't matter what you read on forums...and anyway I'm not Russian and I want the EU to break up...it is a monster. So Obama and America are being made fun of. What planet are you living on...have you seen the rhetoric coming from the UK and USA towards Putin...I think I would have had a lot more to say were I he...but I am not so astute. It is clear that the dogs of war that are the USA and the UK have been on the path of war for quite some time. That is what they do.

Saying one thing but doing the opposite like we have seen in the last few days.
I find it very disturbing to see that so many westerners are so full of hate towards their own country and government, but it is also understandable, our politicians have created this sick environment themselves.

Saying one thing and doing the opposite is the west's modus operandi and you are correct our politicians have created this sick environment. Since the dawn of internet our politicians are becoming more and more exposed and being seen for what they are.

a reply to: demus

however, despite all odds, they're still fighting.

But for how much longer will they be fighting, as time is not on their side?

originally posted by: demus
a reply to: MrSpad

you are talking like the rebels have been defeated...

however, despite all odds, they're still fighting.

They do not have a choice they are trapped at this point. And they are doing more drinking, stealing and making life hell for the locals than fighting. And trying to sneak out like 4 rebels dressed as Orthodox priests. Since it seems most of the rebels are not from Ukraine they can not just blend in with the locals and hide.

On the plus side however it would seem this will not go on much longer. Most of the rebels leadership were Russian who went to voluteer they have almost all been replaced recently by Ukrainians, who are were promoted out of nowhere and have no idea what they are doing. Also all the commanders that were involved in the shoot down of the Malaysian airliner have all been replaced. A new death penalty has also been put in place for rebels who commit crimes against the locals since its has gotten so out of hand. All these are seen as moves by Putin to make the rebels less offensive so he can go begin talks.

The people in Ukraine have released the separatists are not there friends are using them as shields and worse he conflict isnt about the people anymore.

Oh and here is are Russian fake journalist Graham Phillips after slovyansk was freed from separatists. He decides to do an interview on the street for RT didnt work out like he planned ive included translation below



Graham Phillips: Hi, how are you? How is your mood today?

Man: Better than ever.

Graham Phillips: So, what do you think, so the Ukrainian flag is here now?

Woman: The Ukrainian flag is best of all.

Graham Phillips: You didn't support the referendum?

Woman: No, of course not. I'm only for Ukraine.

Graham Phillips: Well, where are you? Because to be honest, I was here in Slavyansk during the referendum and it seemed that every person was supporting it.

Woman: That's not true.

Graham Phillips: What, every person is rejecting that now?

Woman: It's not true. It's not true.

Man: I can confirm what she's saying. It's a total lie. What do you mean, "every person"?

Woman: It's not true. Well, first, what kind of referendum was it, anyway? In your country, is a referendum just a xerox copy, a xeroxed leaflet? That's a referendum? I answered you. And who counted the votes? Who monitored it? Who counted, who counted what was written there?

Graham Phillips: And you didn't support the militia?

Woman: No I didn't support them.

Graham Philips: How do you see the actions of the Ukrainian troops? Didn't they shell the town?

Woman: I fully...No, they didn't shell the town. If those monsters hadn't been here -- I can't call these "militia" otherwise -- They aren't militia. Everything would have been..

Man: Everything would be in one piece otherwise.

Woman: Why is all the rest of Ukraine...90% of Ukraine is living without war...The majority of Donetsk Region lives without war. So who is to blame?

Graham Phillips: But the Ukrainian Army shot civilians.

Woman: [Laughts] What, the terrorists didn't shoot civilians?

Graham Phillips: They killed children! The Ukrainian Army...

Woman: [Laughs] No. The Ukrainian Army was doing everything right. It's defending its territory. It's defending its country, its borders, its people.

Graham Phillips: But they killed children...a child...Civilians.

Woman: What, the terrorists didn't kill children? They didn't kill them, or what?

Man: There is no war without people killed. If someone accidentally hit something, can't get by without that...but if this hadn't happened, they'd be terrorizing us still, those "militia".

Woman: No, only the Ukrainian Army, and only Glory to Ukraine!

Graham Phillips: Alright

Woman: A failed interview, yes?

Graham Phillips: Good-bye.

Woman: I told the guy it was a failed interview.


See when people with guns run around of course they get support until they leave that is.

originally posted by: MrSpad

originally posted by: demus
a reply to: MrSpad

you are talking like the rebels have been defeated...

however, despite all odds, they're still fighting.

They do not have a choice they are trapped at this point. And they are doing more drinking, stealing and making life hell for the locals than fighting. And trying to sneak out like 4 rebels dressed as Orthodox priests. Since it seems most of the rebels are not from Ukraine they can not just blend in with the locals and hide.

On the plus side however it would seem this will not go on much longer. Most of the rebels leadership were Russian who went to voluteer they have almost all been replaced recently by Ukrainians, who are were promoted out of nowhere and have no idea what they are doing. Also all the commanders that were involved in the shoot down of the Malaysian airliner have all been replaced. A new death penalty has also been put in place for rebels who commit crimes against the locals since its has gotten so out of hand. All these are seen as moves by Putin to make the rebels less offensive so he can go begin talks.

you describe it like you were there and seen things with your own eyes, so colorful; poetic almost...

you say they have nowhere to go but you say most of them are not from Ukraine; so if they wanted to cross into Russia, who would stop them?

you're talking about crimes, but have you ever been in the army or army base or go out with a soldiers; what do the folks from cities that have army bases say? that lack of organization that you're talking about is biggest argument against Russian involvement in East Ukraine.

and you think rebels are losing, fair but I cannot shake of a feeling...

you know, Russians, retreating first...

a reply to: dragonridr

If that interview is real

it is clear the people think he is Kiev reporter and speak like that out of fear.

If place I lived suddenly came under control of bunch of trigger happy folks, and reporter asks me about flag

I'd be all yyeeeeee good job.

originally posted by: FootBig
a reply to: dragonridr

If that interview is real

it is clear the people think he is Kiev reporter and speak like that out of fear.

If place I lived suddenly came under control of bunch of trigger happy folks, and reporter asks me about flag

I'd be all yyeeeeee good job.

No everyone knows who he is he became quite famous hanging out with the separatists thats why she has the animosity for him in the interview. Russians are not popular in slovyansk right now. Notice the end when shes leaving she basically states i told you he wouldnt like this. And even if she didnt its obvious he tried to lead her into saying Kiev forces were killing people but she wasnt going to she supports what they did to free slovyansk. Also notice she said the rebels were not supported! See you put a gun in someones face of course they support you until you turn your back.

a reply to: demus

If I could have MrSpad and few like him on ignore so I don't see his posts,

I would.

is there such a function on ATS

originally posted by: dragonridr
No everyone knows who he is he became quite famous hanging out with the separatists thats why she has the animosity for him in the interview. Russians are not popular in slovyansk right now. Notice the end when shes leaving she basically states i told you he wouldnt like this. And even if she didnt its obvious he tried to lead her into saying Kiev forces were killing people but she wasnt going to she supports what they did to free slovyansk. Also notice she said the rebels were not supported! See you put a gun in someones face of course they support you until you turn your back.

Yeah people without electricity and running water living in basements would keep up on reporters, who is who

Heck maybe they even read ATS

originally posted by: FootBig
a reply to: demus

If I could have MrSpad and few like him on ignore so I don't see his posts,

I would.

is there such a function on ATS

No, unfortunately you have to be confronted by the truth. The motto here is "Deny Ignorance." If you want your beliefs confirmed, there are countless forums sponsored by the Russian government for propaganda purposes.

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: FootBig
a reply to: demus

If I could have MrSpad and few like him on ignore so I don't see his posts,

I would.

is there such a function on ATS

No, unfortunately you have to be confronted by the truth. The motto here is "Deny Ignorance." If you want your beliefs confirmed, there are countless forums sponsored by the Russian government for propaganda purposes.

I was thinking black-white thinking, US good-THEM bad is not "deny ignorance"?

is that "deny ignorance"?

you guys are going up and down in your theories and "facts"; the guy claims rebels are mostly not Ukrainians but they have nowhere to go so they have to fight to death...

if that was the case they could "desert" to Russia; if soldiers of Ukrainian army can...

local population doesn't support rebels but they are leaving their destroyed homes escaping from Ukrainian army to Russia?

why the people of East Ukraine don't escape to Ukraine?

Russia’s United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees has confirmed Federal Migration Service (FMS) data indicating that around half a million Ukrainian citizens have fled from the conflict in the Donetsk and Lugansk regions of eastern Ukraine to Russia. Source: Russia Beyond the Headlines - rbth.com...)

a reply to: demus

why the people of East Ukraine don't escape to Ukraine?

Because Ukraine is coming to them. The ones fleeing East consider themselves Russian, not Ukrainian.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: demus

why the people of East Ukraine don't escape to Ukraine?

Because Ukraine is coming to them. The ones fleeing East consider themselves Russian, not Ukrainian.

they consider themselves Russian and escape to Russia but give no support for pro - Russian rebels?

originally posted by: demus

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: demus

why the people of East Ukraine don't escape to Ukraine?

Because Ukraine is coming to them. The ones fleeing East consider themselves Russian, not Ukrainian.

they consider themselves Russian and escape to Russia but give no support for pro - Russian rebels?

Because they know the fight is over. Better exile in Russia than rebuild a Ukraine they despise.

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: demus

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: demus

why the people of East Ukraine don't escape to Ukraine?

Because Ukraine is coming to them. The ones fleeing East consider themselves Russian, not Ukrainian.

they consider themselves Russian and escape to Russia but give no support for pro - Russian rebels?

Because they know the fight is over. Better exile in Russia than rebuild a Ukraine they despise.

but according to you and few other anti-Russia guys rebels never had support from the people, now you say they despise Ukraine and better escape to Russia?

does it mean that all of the people supported and still support rebels in East Ukraine?

originally posted by: demus

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: demus

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: demus

why the people of East Ukraine don't escape to Ukraine?

Because Ukraine is coming to them. The ones fleeing East consider themselves Russian, not Ukrainian.

they consider themselves Russian and escape to Russia but give no support for pro - Russian rebels?

Because they know the fight is over. Better exile in Russia than rebuild a Ukraine they despise.

but according to you and few other anti-Russia guys rebels never had support from the people, now you say they despise Ukraine and better escape to Russia?

The few who did support the rebels are fleeing like rats.

does it mean that all of the people supported and still support rebels in East Ukraine?

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: demus

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: demus

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: demus

why the people of East Ukraine don't escape to Ukraine?

Because Ukraine is coming to them. The ones fleeing East consider themselves Russian, not Ukrainian.

they consider themselves Russian and escape to Russia but give no support for pro - Russian rebels?

Because they know the fight is over. Better exile in Russia than rebuild a Ukraine they despise.

but according to you and few other anti-Russia guys rebels never had support from the people, now you say they despise Ukraine and better escape to Russia?

The few who did support the rebels are fleeing like rats.

does it mean that all of the people supported and still support rebels in East Ukraine?

hundreds of thousands are "few" for you?

"fleeing like rats"???

that is very low of you, I hope you never have to leave your home "fleeing like rat".

that is #ing disgusting thing to say!

Ukraine rebel movement faces uncertain future

DONETSK Ukraine (Reuters) - The resignations were abrupt and unexpected, two quick-fire blows to a separatist movement already suffering reversals on the battle field of eastern Ukraine.

Alexander Borodai, the premier of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic, and Igor Strelkov, his military commander, had together formed the rebels' leadership against Ukrainian troops since armed men first seized state buildings across eastern Ukraine in April.

Friends from Moscow and comrades in arms, they were viewed by the separatists and by Kiev as Russia’s men. Their successive departures in the past two weeks may mark a turning point in a conflict which has dragged ties between Russia and the West to their lowest since the Cold War.

Among separatist ranks, the news has fueled fears that other Russian fighters may abandon the insurgency.

Interviews with rebel fighters and recorded conversations of rebel leaders provided by Ukrainian security services reveal a separatist movement struggling for survival against larger and better-equipped Ukrainian forces.

Some rebels, speaking on condition of anonymity, see the command changes as an attempt by Moscow to distance itself from the conflict. The United States and European Union have accused Russia of training and arming the separatists and imposed economic sanctions on Moscow.

Click link to read article about the rats leaving the sinking pro Russian rebellion.

Ukraine says battles rage in heart of rebel-held Lugansk

originally posted by: demus

originally posted by: MrSpad

originally posted by: demus
a reply to: MrSpad

you are talking like the rebels have been defeated...

however, despite all odds, they're still fighting.

They do not have a choice they are trapped at this point. And they are doing more drinking, stealing and making life hell for the locals than fighting. And trying to sneak out like 4 rebels dressed as Orthodox priests. Since it seems most of the rebels are not from Ukraine they can not just blend in with the locals and hide.

On the plus side however it would seem this will not go on much longer. Most of the rebels leadership were Russian who went to voluteer they have almost all been replaced recently by Ukrainians, who are were promoted out of nowhere and have no idea what they are doing. Also all the commanders that were involved in the shoot down of the Malaysian airliner have all been replaced. A new death penalty has also been put in place for rebels who commit crimes against the locals since its has gotten so out of hand. All these are seen as moves by Putin to make the rebels less offensive so he can go begin talks.

you describe it like you were there and seen things with your own eyes, so colorful; poetic almost...

you say they have nowhere to go but you say most of them are not from Ukraine; so if they wanted to cross into Russia, who would stop them?

you're talking about crimes, but have you ever been in the army or army base or go out with a soldiers; what do the folks from cities that have army bases say? that lack of organization that you're talking about is biggest argument against Russian involvement in East Ukraine.

and you think rebels are losing, fair but I cannot shake of a feeling...

you know, Russians, retreating first...

The city is now surrouned they can not get out of it much less Ukraine. You can find an account of an Armenian volunteer who was recruited by Russia to go fight. It is an interesting read.

And yes I retired from the Army but, I do not recall ever getting drunk and shooting up the town on a nightly basis or robbing the locals or having a death penalty put out for any crime against the locals because things have gotten so bad.

And yes is Russia is retreating as I said most of the rebels leadership from the start were Russian volunteers. They have almost all stepped down. The Russians are going to distance themselves as far as they can from the rebels at this point.

And if you think lack of organization is some how a sign the Russians are not involved you should read about the Russians in the last Georgian conflct. The were the very definition of disorganized. They canned a bunch of officers after and tried reforms but, the corruption remained so bad that nothing got done other than making certain officers rich.

And if this is not symbolic of how side ways things have gone for Russia in Ukraine I do not know what is. Russian climbers place Ukraine flag on Moscow building