Is the Vatican’s Response to Airstrikes Against Islamic State a Major Policy Reversal?

originally posted by: Not Authorized
a reply to: imod02

No room for propaganda? You still trust our media?

You have a good day, and live a long life

a reply to: Not Authorized

There are many Muslims condemning ISIS. Have been from the beginning.

Scholars and teachers

Manchester

Muslims on Social Media

Me. I wasn't going to protest or say much, because really... how does anything I say or do help. I watched them kill 1700 of my fellow shia in a mass execution... I have seen and heard so much that it makes my head spin. And me condemning it does nothing to help...

But, then I saw how many many Sunni is Mosul stood against ISIS, and gave their lives standing for the Christians there, when if they had turned their back and walked away they would have lived. And I thought, that is what it's about you know, standing up for what is right to the death if need be, because what is right is more important than even life.

So I changed my avatar to the mark that ISIS is giving Christians - just to stand with the dead, for what is right above all things.

Muslims are so sick over this.. so many emotions it makes my head just spin, and I can only pray for all of us now.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: SLAYER69

Will we see some sort of outright new Holy war?

I'd hope that in 2014 we would be beyond that...
But the heart wants what it wants...
Mindfully, it probably will lead to something of the sort...

With all that said something does need to be done...
What exactly is up to the strategists & tacticians of many Military's...
& I think it's time China or Russia put a foot down like the US is attempting to do!!!



Peace Slayer!!!

Some times I feel that everything changes and stays the same.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

I know. This is sad. So much unreasonable hate.

The Jesus in both of our religions... if he came back, would be so disappointed.

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: Not Authorized

There are many Muslims condemning ISIS. Have been from the beginning.

Scholars and teachers

Manchester

Muslims on Social Media

Me. I wasn't going to protest or say much, because really... how does anything I say or do help. I watched them kill 1700 of my fellow shia... I have seen and heard so much that it makes my head spin. And me condemning it does nothing to help...

But, then I saw how many many Sunni is Mosul stood against ISIS, and gave their lives standing for the Christians there, when if they had turned their back and walked away they would have lived. And I thought, that is what it's about you know, standing up for what is right to the death if need be, because what is right is more important than even life.

So I changed my avatar to the mark that ISIS is giving Christians - just to stand with the dead, for what is right above all things.

Muslims are so sick over this.. so many emotions it makes my head just spin, and I can only pray for all of us now.

It is the single voice of reason that is the most dangerous to evil, never forget that

originally posted by: Not Authorized
a reply to: OpinionatedB

I know. This is sad. So much unreasonable hate.

The Jesus in both of our religions... if he came back, would be so disappointed.

Really? Do you mean the Jesus that's going to come back with a rod of iron to break the nations? Or the one that's going to come back holding hands with Moham-mad?

a reply to: Logarock

God knows best.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: SLAYER69

The Catholic Church sanctioning attacks against Muslims? That has never happened before... oh, wait....

That is not what he said.

What ISIS is doing is an afront to what every muslim stands for.

the Pope's call for International Law to rule is living in LaLa Land...
the Jihadists recognize only Sharia Law... international law does not apply to Muslim fundamentalist-Jihadists

a very few of these dedicated murderers were ensconced at Gitmo but many have since been freed to go out and continue their international lawlessness.... answering only to the Imams & the Sharia Law of their political-militaristic-religious-ideology

there is no middle ground between Muslims & western Judeo-Christian civilization...
only in Turkey/Indonesia has there been a suspension of radical Islam for the most part

a reply to: Logarock

What do you think is going to happen? You tell me. I'm all ears.

Muslems are asking some hard questions of themselfs,
www.dailymail.co.uk... tion.html

I guess I don't see the connection between what the pope said and authorization of airstrikes. I think, per usual, Mr Beck may be stretching things to make a connection or make leading accusations.

a reply to: SLAYER69

Unusual?

In todays day and age I can see that. If we look at history though not so much. The Catholic church has roots based in the crusades and the inquisitions.

Is it against doctrine? Depends to be honest.
As an example people will invoke the 10 commandments, specifically thou shall not kill. The issue there is that phrasing is not correct. It actually is suppose to be thou shall not murder. There is a huge difference between kill and murder. There are sections in the Torah and the Bible that call for individuals being put to death for what we would consider insane if it occurred today.

Since ISIS is violating Islam I don't see this as a religion verse religion but more along the lines of one group killing individuals of religious groups and doing so under the guise of Islam, which is not entirely accurate. Secondly I don't think its accurate to associate ISIS as an Islamic state. In this area the Vatican's policy towards ISIS is the exact same as Syria, Iraq's and Irans.

The Catholic church's response, imo, seems to be in line with the current pope and his leadership. He seems more concerned with things that matter than polish and image of the church. I have made comments where I want the leaders who represent Islam to call these idiots out. My position on that would include leadership of other religions. If the Pope see's ISIS for what it is and not what ISIS claims, then I think its a good thing.

Its not only saying the Catholic religion does not condone the actions of ISIS in principle, but it also rejects ISIS trying to claim they are acting in the name of Islam. I think on its face it shows support for Christians and other minorities while under the kin its showing support for Islam in that ISIS does not speak for Islam nor represent it.

I think this is a subtle way for the Catholic church to support Islam without coming out and making that comment, which could lead to issues within Islam (religion to religion politics / sensibilities).

It reminds me of the story of the peace protestors and Iraq.
A guy goes to the protests to see what's going on. He listens to protest leaders telling the people to turn the other cheek. When the leader stops talking, the guy walks up to the leader and as hard as he can, punches him in the face. When the leader gets up the guy starts repeating what the protest leader was stating, about turn the other cheek. When the leader backs down, the guy punches him as hard as he can in the face again, sending him to the ground. The leader gets up and goes to respond, when the guy starts repeating what the protest leader was saying, turn the other cheek etc.

The point of the story is to demonstrate that there are times when turning the other cheek is not and cannot be a solution. It demonstrates that there will be situations which will require violence to end the problem.

I think the Pope has reached this conclusion. I think he realizes that some groups must be countered with force to secure the long term peace. I think he is demonstrating that eventually religion must give way to common sense.

Just my 2 cents.

originally posted by: daaskapital

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: SLAYER69

Nothing like a good ole crusade to get the ball rolling on world war 3 is there? I guess it wasn't happening fast enough for everyone's taste.

Because seriously, you turn this into an actual crusade... and you will have it. A very very messy world war 3 at that...

Nah, if all of The West went balls deep, Islamic State would be over and done with very quickly and replaced with local radicals who are content to stay in their own playground. A restructuring like the end of WWI would have them all confused for another century.

That is a very arrogant and narrow-minded position to take...

Of course, i would expect nothing less from you......

Things are never as simple as they may seem.

But it has historical precedent.
Sometime the simple is the best, KISS.
Pope seems to think so.

originally posted by: Not Authorized
a reply to: OpinionatedB

I know. This is sad. So much unreasonable hate.

The Jesus in both of our religions... if he came back, would be so disappointed.

More importantly, no one would have any idea in the WORLD who or what he was!!

Once one sees that ALL sides are condemned, and no side ever existed that was on the side of truth.........

Well, you can easily see how easy it is for the "controllers" to create every group, and power them to create these specific "plays" upon the earth.

NONE OF THE ABOVE, will pass muster, EVER.

" Will we see some sort of outright new Holy war? "

No. But we might see some sort of Unholy war.

originally posted by: Rosinitiate

How is it possible we can travel to outer space but can't solve such trivial problems here?

Because contrary to popular belief we are not all created the same or equal. Those that are following ISIS are mentally ill, mentally divergent from the rest of humanity or brainwashed from birth to think and believe in Evil. They believe in their core that death and killing is a blessing from Allah. They have twisted thoughts compared to normal humanity. They are not unlike Charles Manson.

You either destroy them or permanent imprison them. You cannot share a planet with divergent humans such as these.

For them there is no live and let live philosophy.

originally posted by: Xeven

originally posted by: Rosinitiate

How is it possible we can travel to outer space but can't solve such trivial problems here?

Because contrary to popular belief we are not all created the same or equal. Those that are following ISIS are mentally ill, mentally divergent from the rest of humanity or brainwashed from birth to think and believe in Evil. They believe in their core that death and killing is a blessing from Allah. They have twisted thoughts compared to normal humanity. They are not unlike Charles Manson.

You either destroy them or permanent imprison them. You cannot share a planet with divergent humans such as these.

For them there is no live and let live philosophy.

I applaud you,
that is a very good way to put it.

This got me thinking about something. Even if you are a pacifist, or there is some group of pacifists (and I think the modern church as an organization would likely fit in this role,) at what point does it become okay to use or advocate violence? I would imagine that the Catholic Church, who are supposed to be basing their ideas from the teachings of Jesus, should never condone violence on the grounds that Jesus didn't condone violence against other humans. So arguing from the belief system of the church I would think they would be wrong to condone airstrikes...even when ISIS is killing Christians in large numbers.

But what about a pacifist not bound by any religious beliefs? At what point would it be okay for them to condone violence? I suppose it just depends on the person. Personally I feel that something needs to be done to first stop the spread of ISIS, and then to eliminate the group altogether. IF there were truly a way to do so peacefully, then I would be behind that method 100%. But how can you argue faith or beliefs or right and wrong with a group who obviously has their mind made up, and who sees everyone who does not follow their belief system as being beneath them? Does anyone think we can fight ideology with ideology in this instance?

Then there is the problem of even putting oneself in a position to non-violently talk with such a group. It is not like you could walk up to them and say "hi, I want to talk." Especially if you are obviously a Westerner. They would probably kill you outright, or kidnap you. Other groups might have kidnapped you, but these guys probably wouldn't waste their time. They don't need the money from a ransom most likely. They appear to be doing rather well in the funding department.

There just comes a point when a group that is so obviously a detriment to humanity must be dealt with. They have gotten large enough and influential enough (through force) that something has to be done. I advocated pulling troops out of Iraq, but this is not something that can be ignored. Eventually, if ISIS is allowed to thrive unmolested, they WILL be a threat to the United States. But they likely will be a threat to allied countries much sooner, for geographical reasons. Again, this is if they are allowed to build their state. Their stated goals seemed ridiculous, but if they can gain control over Iraq and form some form of government, then they can start building themselves up even more. Then who is next? Syria? One cannot say that all the people in Syria or Iran or Saudi Arabia would be against ISIS. If they are Muslim then there is a chance they could join them. That is just a fact.

So the only solution seems to be to stop them before things really get out of hand. That is a bit callous seeing how many people have already died, but I am convinced this is just the beginning. IF we allow them to grow larger we will see far worse. That seems relatively obvious to me and probably most of you. The only other solution, for Americans, would be to adopt and maintain an isolationist strategy. Do not deal with ISIS until they are a direct threat to our borders. That time would come I do believe. But we would likely have to intervene at some point before that. I mean would we just allow them to take over Iraq and Syria, and then Iran? Would we risk letting nuclear weapons fall into their hands? My point is that it would be impossible to let them go until they reached our shores. We would be forced to take action before then.

And because of that, why not just take some form of action at present? It sure as heck would be a lot easier to act now than it would be to wait until they are even stronger and have better weaponry and more troops. That is my opinion anyway. I admit I could be wrong in my approach. We could say that the church is right or they are wrong in supporting action against ISIS, but they have to live in this world too. They know just as well as we do that ISIS would kill every church member if they are given the chance. So I just feel something should be done.

geeze, at the most there are only 40,000 of them, TOPS.

sampson slew 1000 philistines with the jawbone of an ass, in one day.

lol, trying to work obama in that.

what would it take to make these cockroaches run for the hills?
practically nothing, that's what.

oh yeah, obama should use the weapons his military has and stop flappin his jawbones.

at least they are trying to take the dam, like i said they should.

the pope is correct in calling for action from governments that can do something about isis.

things have to be really messed up for him to weigh in on the side of action.