Oh... Finally NY Times Discovers Neo-Nazis In Ukraine

originally posted by: Bassago
a reply to: Fylgje

These are the people attacking pro-Russian eastern Ukrainians.

It was the dam Russians who started this fight and have been lying out their backsides from day one. See it for yourself by going to Vice News on Youtube.

www.youtube.com...

Watch all these Vice News Dispatch videos till about the 11th one or more if you like. You will quickly learn Russia has been outright lying from day one.

a reply to: Patriotsrevenge

It was the dam Russians who started this fight and have been lying out their backsides from day one.

That is a completely different issue. Are you saying it's OK for the US and EU to support the Nazis in the Kiev government and their militias? That the west's battles against the Nazi regime during WWII doesn't really matter in our allying with them in today's wars because it suits our purposes?

a reply to: Bassago

That is a completely different issue. Are you saying it's OK for the US and EU to support the Nazis in the Kiev government and their militias?

It is just as okay as the Russians backing neo nazi's and putting them in charge of the separatists.

That the west's battles against the Nazi regime during WWII doesn't really matter in our allying with them in today's wars because it suits our purposes?

First there is no evidence the whole of Ukraine government are neo nazis so why is it you keep referring to them in that way?

Now if you want to discuss the separatists leaders being a self proclaimed member of the RNU from Russia which btw are neo nazi's then that is a little bit closer to the truth than saying all Ukraine gov't are neo nazi's...and yet let's not forget Russia backed Hitler in the war and helped the Nazi's but it seems to be overlooked by pro Russian backers.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

First there is no evidence the whole of Ukraine government are neo nazis so why is it you keep referring to them in that way?

I have never said the "whole of Ukraine government" are Neo-Nazis.

It is just as okay as the Russians backing neo nazi's and putting them in charge of the separatists.

As I've told you several times this thread is not about Russia and what they are or aren't doing. For this topic I don't care. This is about Kiev's use of Nazi militias and the US and EU supporting them.

We shouldn't be supporting Nazis. Period.

a reply to: Bassago

No. as I told you earlier, let's talk about the treads actual topic as opposed to what you (continuously) want to derail it with.This isn't about Russia or Putin. This is about:

Your thread is a lie because the NY Times article only says this about anything Nazi related.

which took over the village of Marinka, flies a neo-Nazi symbol resembling a Swastika as its flag.

Nowhere does it say they discovered neo nazi's, so that alone shows your imbellishing the truth.

In fact the real title should be this...

Ukraine Strategy Bets on Restraint by Russia

The true headline of the article, so how about you quit trying to spread propaganda that's not true?

Kiev using Neo-Nazis, specifically the Azov Battalion, in east Ukraine, killing people around Donetsk.

So you have proof the Azov Battalion is in fact a bunch of neo nazi's, or are you embellishing like you did with the title of this thread?

Stay on the TOPIC please and quit trying to derail.

Is this not a thread about neo nazi's in Ukraine, because that seems to be the premise.

And I see you don't like being shown that in fact the Pro Russian you and some other members are backing are in fact neo nazi's that have their ties to the RNU neo nazi group from Russia.

So if you want to show evidence that the Azov Battalion are in fact neo nazi's then that's fine, but don't expect me to not counter your assertions with truth.

a reply to: Bassago

This is about Kiev's use of Nazi militias and the US and EU supporting them.

I see you only want people who see things the same way as you, and are afraid of actually debating the fact that Russia is using neo nazi's for this conflict, because that shows you only want biased posts...Well then to quote the Rolling Stones

You Can't Always Get What You Want...Sorry.

And If I am derailing your thread the mods will let us know.

a reply to: Patriotsrevenge

So I see you have a baseless Thread here.

Nope this thread is quite accurate. Here's another source if you don't like the last one.

Ukrai ne crisis: the neo-Nazi brigade fighting pro-Russian separatists

And here's a quick quote from the article by one of the members of the Azov Battalion.

“Personally, I’m a Nazi,” said “Phantom”, a 23-year-old former lawyer at the ceremony wearing camouflage and holding a Kalashnikov.

a reply to: Bassago

We shouldn't be supporting Nazis. Period.

The first thing would be to prove that they are neo nazi's, and just because their flag looks similar to a swaztika it doesn't prove they are neo nazi's.

So you can show proof they are neo nazi's, because you seem to be sure of yourself yet haven't produced evidence to back it up?

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

So you can show proof they are neo nazi's, because you seem to be sure of yourself yet haven't produced evidence to back it up?

See my previous post...

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Just because they have Nazi symbols on their flag, along with various public statements and acts from their leaders and group..............that alone is enough proof in their Nazi panties. No need to waste time and efforts in splitting hairs here.

Grow up and focus on more macro issues!!

a reply to: Bassago

Nope this thread is quite accurate. Here's another source if you don't like the last one.

No it isn't because it says in the title that the NY Times has discovered neo nazi's in Ukraine when in fact the article never said that, but hey it's your thread and you can embellish if you want to.

Ukrai ne crisis: the neo-Nazi brigade fighting pro-Russian separatists

One man with an SS on his neck, or even three people are not proof that Ukraine is using whole battalions of racist skin headed Nazi's now does it.

Why is it you are afraid to see someone post a counter to your assertions?

Does the truth bother you, because I can embellish if that is more your style?

One man's ideology does not mean they all follow that ideology.

a reply to: victor7

Just because they have Nazi symbols on their flag, along with various public statements and acts from their leaders and group..............that alone is enough proof in their Nazi panties. No need to waste time and efforts in splitting hairs here.

You have a few make statements and that is proof they are all nazi's. And here is the funny thing the separatists are being run by a true and proclaimed neo nazi, but i see the pro Russian crowd don't like to hear about that...why?

Grow up and focus on more macro issues!!

This coming from someone flopping around more than a fish out of water. Do you still want to see more military action or are you changing your tune again?

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

The thread title does not link to the NYT it was an article by Arabworld360 and it referenced the Times article. Which I also linked and according to the T&C's referenced it's correct title as well. You grasping now, did you even read the OP and links provided? From your posts it looks like you didn't.

Now I've posted from the Telegraph article also acknowledging Neo-Nazi fighters in east Ukraine. You should try broadening your acceptance of information.

There are Neo-Nazis fighting in Ukraine, Kiev supports them and the US and EU are also supporting them. But hey deny it all you want, I get it.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

I am not flopping. Recommendations for peace have already been given long time ago. Rebels have also come up with cease fire proposals. Kiev Terrorist Junta has rejected them merely because they are gaining some ground. Shame !!

Porky Poro had said he will not use artillery and rockets on Donetsk, what happened dude? Ran out of ideas ??

Utter shame !! that civilians are being bombarded just because Porky wants to have a victory parade on Aug 24th independence day. He should be tried for war crimes alone on this Operational Target based on some date of public function. Evil Idiot !!!

It will not happen Evil Idiot, Donetsk "will not" fall that easy.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Two words: Justify Russia.
I have noticed there has been a lot of that.

a reply to: Bassago

Well if you did a little research you would know the symbol the Nazis used was a symbol for the 2nd ss panzer division and is not a nazi symbol. It be like me saying a patch for the 82nd airborne is a symbol for america its not. Nazis didnt use this it was worn by the 2nd panzer division there were alot of other unit patches as well. Do you want to knw why Ukraine used it? Simple the 2nd Panzer fought the Russians and they gained support in Ukraine mainly because how the Russians treated the Ukrainians sadly Nazis were alot nicer to them than Stalin. See many in the right dont like Russia very much they see it as an occupation and well they were right.

Now there are Nazis in the far right after all they are severely nationalistic as well as im sure some racists as well But that doesnt mean they all are so your generalizing. But lets say they all are just for kicks even in the last election they got less than one percent of the vote. Meaning you would have problems trying to find more than a couple of thousand. For example right sector claims to have 600 members. To say they control Ukraine just shows a severe lack of understanding.

a reply to: dragonridr

To say they control Ukraine just shows a severe lack of understanding.

Where did I ever say that Neo-Nazis controlled Ukraine?

Well if you did a little research you would know the symbol the Nazis used was a symbol for the 2nd ss panzer division and is not a nazi symbol.

Uh huh, right.... not a Nazi symbol. Got it.

Wolfsangel
Post-WWII use

After World War II, the symbol was used by some Neo-Nazi organizations, but public exhibition of the symbol is illegal in Germany if a connection with one of these groups is apparent
Wiki..

Whoops, guess it is considered a Neo-Nazi symbol. It was also associated with the SS during WWII.

Edit - You know what I don't get is why some folks are so intent on denying Neo-Nazi activity in Ukraine. Almost seems to me that if it's denied enough the issue will go away.

You know there are Neo-Nazis all over the place but most governments don't use them as militia fighters and shock troops. You would think people would reject this very concept. Go figure.

a reply to: Bassago

Even your own link is telling you it wasnt used by Nazis as a symbol but than you want to say Neo nazis used it. But wait you yourself said they arent Neo Nazis since Neo Nazis dont have to have the same ideology as Nazis .Neo Nazis are mostly far right in a country. So i guess they become Neo Nazis when it suits you nice. But the way do a little research as to which neo nazis used it there were two neither group is still around the biggest was right after world war 2 there were saboteurs in Germany that used this symbol mostly because many of them served in the 2 nd panzer division. Again do your homework.

At least now you admit the Nazis dont control Ukraine though so we made progress none the less. Obviously fringe groups exist in any country just like im sure their are members of the KKK in the US army but that doesnt mean they are all racist this is where you have the biggest logic fail. But you see it alot from people twisted logic. Like someone will say aliens built the pyramids. and it goes like this well they couldnt possibly have moved those heavy blocks. Therefore something other than humans had to. And if thats the case must be aliens never mind the fact that humans have moved huge stones since the dawn of man.
Here ill make this easy for you there indeed is Nazis in Ukraine along with the rest of Europe as well nothing new. The only question we need to know is are they in charge no they are not. Now the separatists thats different but its not even their fault Nazis will thrive anywhere they can create nationalism and have some one else to blame for troubles.

So you can generalize and try to make this out to be a war against Nazis fine but it wont take long since theirs only a couple of thousand and their views are a very small minority.

a reply to: dragonridr

At least now you admit the Nazis dont control Ukraine though so we made progress none the less.

Please some posters, yourself included have charged me with the statement about Nazis (neo or otherwise) controlling Ukraine. I'll ask you again (as I've asked others) to point out where I EVER said such a thing. Even once will do but I'm thinking strawman.

Obviously you deny the Neo-Nazi militia fighters so what else can I say. I gave you both the NY Times and more recently the Telegraph article showing their activity in east Ukraine but you choose to ignore it. Fine by me.

Carry on.

a reply to: Bassago

I think you readily conceded they are not in charge ok fine. As i said there are Nazis everywhere if they dont control everything than well it doesnt matter in the least. But in the separatist movement they are in charge making that a little scarry but we truly dont know how much control they have their since i think there is alot of infighting going on so its all just speculation.As far as the Azov Battalion that was the police under the former president who formed an elite battalion after the revolution i think they are scary. No doubt about it are they Nazis most probably not but thats not what makes them scary. What makes them scary is how little control Kiev has over them for right now the interests are the same but even in the latest dispatch they had a fight with maiden security many former members themselves so trying to judge where their loyalty lies if iffy at best.

This means there is a very good likely hood that eventually they will disagree with Kiev probably after the separatists are gone. This will leave a power vacuum i think they hope to fill in Eastern ukraine i only hope im wrong.