Has opinion shifted against Israel?

Has isreal finally lost majority opinion support? Now I know you have the right-wing hacks screaming Israel's sacred and our bestes friend, but it seems to me you now really do have just as many against Israel's actions as for.


When all this started it was pretty much 90% for Israel. Now, I'm seeing more and more forums with the majority of the posts no longer defending or unable to defend there actions.


Also, I don't see many people defending hamAs. I think it's Israel's tactics that are drawing the worlds attention. It's always a bad idea to use military action for a non enemy nation terrorist attack. If there's not a military to fight you don't invade.

You assassinate the bad guys. Surgical strike. If you lose troops so be it. )There in the military to fight and maybe die. They signed up.)

IMHO civilian casualties create enemies. I'm not saying there arnt situations that are worth taking civilian lives. I'm saying you make sure it's worth it. If you can kill 300 enemies but will kill 5 innocents. That's fine. Assuming you make 4 enemies per innocent that's a net gain of 280. However Israel is killing more civilians then enemy combatants. Creating more enemies then they are killing.

a reply to: ArtemisE

Has isreal finally lost majority opinion support?

They never had a majority, it is just their huge propaganda arm that made folks believe so.
What has happened is someone let the cat out of the bag and those that were afraid to be labeled before realize who is the real bad guys.
The only friend the terrorist regime has left is the US, and opinions are a swingin!

a reply to: ArtemisE

The first question you should ask is who is Israel? Israel is not a person, but a nation. All nations are corrupt.

Hamas has a large propaganda machine too.

The Israelis are the only chance for those living in Gaza to live in peace. Islamic extremists are forcing them to stay there while hiding behind them and taking shots at Israel, knowing full well Israel will retaliate and knowing that a lot of the leadership in Israel doesn't care about innocents dying. No one will defend Israel for killing civilians except Israeli extremists, but Hamas - and more specifically those funding Hamas (I am still waiting to figure out if people are actually aware of who that is) - is the biggest problem.

No .. these threads are just getting bored !

originally posted by: ArtemisE
You assassinate the bad guys. Surgical strike.

Yeah see this is one of the things that gets me... As far as I understand, Israel has an excellent intelligence agency... At the very least, they apparently know enough to know exactly where all these rocket sites and terrorists are hiding. Someone shoots a rocket? Arrest them. Kill them. Whatever. But instead of actually sending in troops to arrest the people shooting rockets, or confiscate the materials, they simply bomb everything and kill everyone.
Let me put it this way; I live in the United States. Let's say a guy robs a bank and the police show up, so he escapes and leads them on a chase. As a last-ditch effort, the guy runs into a school and takes the school hostage, where he demands $50,000 and a helicopter. Now what do you think law enforcement is going to do? Maybe they'll give him the money and a rigged helicopter to coax him out of the building; maybe they'll send in a SWAT team to take control of the situation... But they sure as hell won't say "Screw it, let's just bomb the school. It's HIS fault all those kids are going to die."
What Israel is doing is not self-defense, it's terrorism and war crimes.

Bombing and killing children by the hundreds is indefensible, there's no way around that, you can't argue with that, whether it's Israel doing it or any other country, or Tom&Jerry, it's the bottom line.

Here in the Uk I see a massive swing against Israel in the mainstream media. Before it was always the leading line " Hamas firing rockets". Now its the murder of Palestinian civilians and quoting other statesmen and celebrities worldwide who are condemning Israel that we are viewing on the main news channels. Without a doubt, the media are deliberately pushing and public opinion is changing.

Israel wins all the time at war.
They just won again by walking in and destroying all of Hamas' billion dollar world sympathy funded attack tunnels.
Winners are more popular than losers, historical fact.

originally posted by: TinfoilTP
Israel wins all the time at war.
They just won again by walking in and destroying all of Hamas' billion dollar world sympathy funded attack tunnels.
Winners are more popular than losers, historical fact.

So the Seahawks are more popular then the Denver broncos huh? Nope.

originally posted by: trollz

originally posted by: ArtemisE
You assassinate the bad guys. Surgical strike.

Yeah see this is one of the things that gets me... As far as I understand, Israel has an excellent intelligence agency... At the very least, they apparently know enough to know exactly where all these rocket sites and terrorists are hiding. Someone shoots a rocket? Arrest them. Kill them. Whatever. But instead of actually sending in troops to arrest the people shooting rockets, or confiscate the materials, they simply bomb everything and kill everyone.
Let me put it this way; I live in the United States. Let's say a guy robs a bank and the police show up, so he escapes and leads them on a chase. As a last-ditch effort, the guy runs into a school and takes the school hostage, where he demands $50,000 and a helicopter. Now what do you think law enforcement is going to do? Maybe they'll give him the money and a rigged helicopter to coax him out of the building; maybe they'll send in a SWAT team to take control of the situation... But they sure as hell won't say "Screw it, let's just bomb the school. It's HIS fault all those kids are going to die."
What Israel is doing is not self-defense, it's terrorism and war crimes.

What a beautiful point. Well done.

The simple answer to your question OP is that opinion has shifted against Israel in many countries.

However, I don't believe Israel could have possibly made it out of this conflict without losing support, because Hamas orchestrated it that way.

The world condemns Hamas as a terrorist organization. The world condemns Hamas for firing missiles at Israeli civilians. The world condemns Hamas for using human shields, exploiting UN facilities, hospitals, schools, and mosques to further their agenda. The world reassures Israel that it has the right to defend itself.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't...

originally posted by: TinfoilTP
Israel wins all the time at war.
They just won again by walking in and destroying all of Hamas' billion dollar world sympathy funded attack tunnels.
Winners are more popular than losers, historical fact.

This was no war, it was a massacre. IDF and the Israeli terrorists are too coward for a real war, all the IDF cowards are good at is targeting women and children. Cowards.

Hamas, Hamas, Hamas, idiot parroting with no intelligence. Zionism was the problem way before Hamas, decades before. Always finding a new pretext and the masses buy your $hit. Rockets, Hamas, just lies, none stop.

And yes, people are waking up all around the world about Israel's terrorists atrocities.

originally posted by: ArtemisE


Has isreal finally lost majority opinion support? Now I know you have the right-wing hacks screaming Israel's sacred and our bestes friend, but it seems to me you now really do have just as many against Israel's actions as for.


When all this started it was pretty much 90% for Israel. Now, I'm seeing more and more forums with the majority of the posts no longer defending or unable to defend there actions.


Also, I don't see many people defending hamAs. I think it's Israel's tactics that are drawing the worlds attention. It's always a bad idea to use military action for a non enemy nation terrorist attack. If there's not a military to fight you don't invade.

You assassinate the bad guys. Surgical strike. If you lose troops so be it. )There in the military to fight and maybe die. They signed up.)

IMHO civilian casualties create enemies. I'm not saying there arnt situations that are worth taking civilian lives. I'm saying you make sure it's worth it. If you can kill 300 enemies but will kill 5 innocents. That's fine. Assuming you make 4 enemies per innocent that's a net gain of 280. However Israel is killing more civilians then enemy combatants. Creating more enemies then they are killing.

In your example there is absolutely no connection between the robber and the students. Were any civilians killed in the bombing of Dresden, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya? If yes, why? How about any civilian deaths in Bosnia which the world cried out for help for?

It's a calculated risk. Yet another land grab is apparently worth the PR hit to Israel's credibility and world esteem.

originally posted by: hoth12

originally posted by: ArtemisE


Has isreal finally lost majority opinion support? Now I know you have the right-wing hacks screaming Israel's sacred and our bestes friend, but it seems to me you now really do have just as many against Israel's actions as for.


When all this started it was pretty much 90% for Israel. Now, I'm seeing more and more forums with the majority of the posts no longer defending or unable to defend there actions.


Also, I don't see many people defending hamAs. I think it's Israel's tactics that are drawing the worlds attention. It's always a bad idea to use military action for a non enemy nation terrorist attack. If there's not a military to fight you don't invade.

You assassinate the bad guys. Surgical strike. If you lose troops so be it. )There in the military to fight and maybe die. They signed up.)

IMHO civilian casualties create enemies. I'm not saying there arnt situations that are worth taking civilian lives. I'm saying you make sure it's worth it. If you can kill 300 enemies but will kill 5 innocents. That's fine. Assuming you make 4 enemies per innocent that's a net gain of 280. However Israel is killing more civilians then enemy combatants. Creating more enemies then they are killing.

In your example there is absolutely no connection between the robber and the students. Were any civilians killed in the bombing of Dresden, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya? If yes, why? How about any civilian deaths in Bosnia which the world cried out for help for?

There's not necessarily a connection between palistinian children and Hamas either. No 4 year old voted for Hamas and I'm sure some parents didn't vote or voted for the other guy.


The Whole "they voted for Hamas" garbage is just unintelligent. Politicians lie constantly. When you vote for some one your not responsible for all there actions.

originally posted by: TinfoilTP
Israel wins all the time at war.
They just won again by walking in and destroying all of Hamas' billion dollar world sympathy funded attack tunnels.
Winners are more popular than losers, historical fact.

And the winners REwrite the history to suit the agenda.
I'm not waltzing into anything that smells like "public
opinion" shifting, the people that own the media own
Israel's government-- and a large majority of ours in the US
as well. Common knowledge.
If there's any world sympathy funding anything right now,
it's the exposure of Hamas as another Mossad crafted
boogeyman... and the media can smell the hounds coming.
The war Israel's losing right now is the Kool-Aid lacing contest.

a reply to: ArtemisE

True enough. And I appreciate the "unintelligent" comment. In thread after thread in ATS we are told Hamas is not a terrorist group but the lawfully elected government of the people. Fine. If Hamas is the government of the people then Hamas' military is the military of the people. Can't have it both ways right? When someone else's military incessantly fires rockets across your borders, sends suicide bombers at your people, consistently calls for your destruction, actually constructs tunnels into your land to kill you while you sleep and you have credible intelligence that a massive attack using those tunnels is about to happen, and then funds the kidnap and killing of three of your students.

I don't agree with everything the US president does and even less our military, yet I am held responsible in the middle east for their actions am I not? how many times have we heard that 9/11 was a justified reaction to what America's army is doing in the middle east. Well darn it, I sure as heck can tell you that I voted against just about every megalomaniacal war in the middle east yet I had two buildings nearly toppled on my head. No one asked me who I had voted for. And what about the afghani civilians that did not vote for the Taliban?

Well now we go tit for tat right back to 1948 and say that had the Israeli's not stolen the Palestinian's land nine if this would have happened. That's the adolescent line I see you spouting. Why do I call it adolescent? Not because I am degrading you as you tried to degrade me, but rather because it is how an adolescent comes up with an explanation of how the world works, i.e., I think I know everything and therefore I can enter an internet forum and accuse people of doing anything I want. Forgive me if that was harsh but it was less intended for you and more intended for the many hatemongers on this forum, not the few who criticize Israel rightly and honestly for its various transgressions.

Back to 1948. The reason why the Brits gave the land to Israel? You don't have to resort to the tin foil hat conspiracies that are constantly being thrown around ATS that dirty moo money Britain this and dirty joo media that and dirty joo run the world. Nope. It was a lot simpler than that. The Arabs were heavy supporters of the Nazis and the Mufti Jerusalem was all to happy to join in the fun. And you know what, their allies lost a long bloody war. Had their allies won, we would all be singing Deutschland Ubber Alleys and there likely would not be a Christian or Jew in the middle east right now. But they didn't win, and Britain decided to give Israel its land for various reasons. And a people that had no right of return anymore to their birthplaces, who were dogged across the world for millenia, who the world turned its back on for years as they were systematically exterminated, who was given the land of those who had just assisted the exterminators and who continued the calls for their extermination, well they jumped at the chance to have finally have a land of their own.
en.wikipedia.org...


And they built up that land to greatness. After war after war was brought their doorstep. They pleaded for peace over and over while the wars and the hatred multiplied. They gave back a lot of the land. And they even tried getting out of still more of it. But the calls for destruction came steadily and, more importantly, the killing of their women and children continued unabated.

No government is always right. No people are always right. However, unless we UNDERSTAND both sides of the conflict we can never have peace. I implore BOTH sides to speak and love each other. My two best friends (one is my ex-girlfriend who I love dearly) are Muslims. Each people has so much to learn from and to share with the other. Before we call for any more blood let us try every other possible solution.