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Medjugorje - imminent ruling of pope Francis?

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posted on Jul, 31 2014 @ 03:42 AM

Medjugorje is likely only a short time away from receiving Pope Francis’ ruling, the conclusion of more than four years of work by a Vatican commission of experts. Generally, the verdict will uphold status quo with no final pronouncement on the authenticity of the apparitions, the Spanish priest Fr. Juan Garcia Inza from Murcia writes on his blog, citing “well-informed sources”.

The only major change forecast by Fr. Juan Garcia Inza would affect Medjugorje’s status within the Church: Like others before him, the Spanish priest says Medjugorje will be granted shrine status.

posted on Jul, 31 2014 @ 03:45 AM
a reply to: 2012newstart

The Vatican has bigger things to worry about than the status of apparitions.

If they don't sort out the recent priest scandals they are in danger of losing credibility with their faithful.

posted on Jul, 31 2014 @ 04:38 AM
a reply to: HiAliens

Waw! I didn't think of that everytime I type the word Vatican on ATS! Sure they do, I agree with you.
Meanwhile, the millions hardline faithful care what happens with Medjugorje, the biggest ongoing alleged apparition of Virgin Mary.

posted on Jul, 31 2014 @ 04:47 AM
a reply to: 2012newstart

Why do people need an outside authority to tell them what's real?

We have internal discernment, BS detectors.

Handing that natural human skill to an outside source is asking for trouble.

posted on Jul, 31 2014 @ 05:38 AM
a reply to: HiAliens
I can't answer all of those deep moral questions, and their links to apparitions, without writing volumes of paper (and nobody pays me for that, too). You are OK with your own discernment of spirituality and that is great for you. You don't care of Medjugorje and probably of apparitions. Good luck in your spiritual journey!

Medjugorje is well known phenomenon to believers and those who are well informed of the Catholic church even if they do not believe that. John Paul II called it continuation of Fatima.
As I say that, could it be also continuation of Garabandal and the expected Miracles there to occur during Medjugorje Great Sign? Just saying.

posted on Jul, 31 2014 @ 06:01 AM

one good vid of Medjugorje Sun miracle.
Is there a solar explosion or a "lesser" nuclear explosion within the Medjugorje predicted coming events, known as the "10 secrets"? Nobody knows for sure except the 6 seers, who allegedly didn't tell the secrets to anybody, not even to the popes (whom they met with). That is a difference from Fatima and other apparitions where the secrets are told to bishops and popes.
But everybody is given reason to think about, looking at the sun's pulsations and knowing prophetic texts from other apparitions.

posted on Jul, 31 2014 @ 06:20 AM
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

The Vatican can not 'approve' an ongoing apparition. This apparition is still 'ongoing'.

It can only say one of these three things about an ongoing apparition -

- Condemned due to demonic/negative influences

- Dismissed due to it not being of supernatural origin.

- No finding at this time. Further investigation needed.

I'm guessing that if the Vatican says anything at all it'll be the third one - that there is no finding at this time.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

posted on Jul, 31 2014 @ 06:53 AM
a reply to: FlyersFan

As far as I know, Medjugorje is moved out of the regular rules concerning apparitions. Thus, the views of the local bishop and bishops' conference who were overall negative, were sidelined and the case was moved up. But Not in the CDF (formerly card. Ratzinger's task to control apparitions) but into a special commission created for Medjugorje alone. This is a precedent by itself. As far as I read in this and other articles, now it seems the pope himself will take the duty to make a ruling (still pending). Of course the pope is above the commissions set by him or his predecessors. I can only hope pope Francis will do the work unfinished by his predecessors (due to circumstances of any kind). And not only for Medjugorje but also for a number of other apparitions, including Fatima's unreleased part.

P.S. the informed people know well it was exactly cardinal Ratzinger (later pope Benedict) who "saved" Medjugorje out of the negative ruling of local bishops, by taking the case into CDF. Followed disintegration of Former Yugoslavia and then bishops' conference of Yugoslavia, into new countries and new bishops' conferences. The Cardinal of Sarajevo (capital of Bosnia and Herzegovina the country where Medjugorje is located now) said Medjugorje was beyond his competences and handed the case to the Vatican. Then the special commission was created. Perhaps the pope will base his decision on the findings of that commission.

Everything is possible to come as a ruling, including what is said in the article: keeping the status quo of undecided apparition and upgrading Medjugorje status as a catholic shrine for pilgrimage. In this way, all devote people to Medjugorje will continue to be devote to Medjugorje without breaking any rule, and all other Catholics who disapprove it will be able to continue disapproving it, without disagreement with the Church. A wise decision isn't it?

Still I hope for what I said before, namely a bold action of what is still unknown, in Fatima, Medjugorje, elsewhere. The world has the right to know, moreover the world needs to know. Not secrets untold, but secrets that had to be made public in 1960 according to words of the blessed Virgin Mary! The clock is ticking and we are not the ones who can correct that clock.
edit on 31-7-2014 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 31 2014 @ 07:31 AM
IThe previous media story saying practically the same, was denied by one of the local priests involved. It is a pity when people reject their words and views out of human concerns that should not play a role in a world case like that. Now the new article from another priest in another country proves the same story. As reported, "from informed sources". I bet the pope himself gave the green light for those posts in the media, because how otherwise someone would know what the pope intends to do? Let those priests and bishops be no bigger Catholics than the pope himself. It is disappointing especially for all those millions of simple people who poured prayers and efforts for years. As if they are the wrong and deluded sheeple because of honoring the Blessed Mother. If those on top were already right. Life proves otherwise, bishops erred, cardinals, popes too. It is an error not to announce to the world a text in approved and venerated apparition (Fatima) when that text was required to be announced by 1960. Only God and the Blessed Mother know what was spared in the last days of the Cold War, or is it spared or just delayed. Let not repeat the errors twice. Actually many times.

If the ruling of Medjugorje is what is said in the article, I bet many catholics who do not follow apparitions will stand up crying: Medjugorje is not supernatural! Because of differences in formulations allowing later interpretation. The ruling as suggested in the article is rather positive and affirms the veneration of Virgin Mary in Medjugorje, although not final ruling on the apparitions, secrets and messages.
edit on 31-7-2014 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 31 2014 @ 10:15 AM
a reply to: 2012newstart

I have never seen that before and have no doubt it was genuine.

Of course there was another solar miracle related to our lady at Fatima seen by thousand's.

posted on Jul, 31 2014 @ 10:41 AM
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

originally posted by: 2012newstart
Medjugorje is moved out of the regular rules concerning apparitions.

Rome took away the local bishops rights to make a ruling. There were too many political intrigues and infighting between the orders in the area. So Rome had the right to take over the ruling process.

Everything is possible to come as a ruling,

No apparition is ever to be 'approved' while it is ongoing. But it can be condemned or declared not supernatural. It can also be stated that the church has no ruling at this time. But never 'approved' before it's ended.

Additional reading for those interested -
Catholic News - Vatical Publishing Rules For Verifying Marian Apparitions.
Vatican Curia - Norms Regarding the Manner of Proceeding in the Discernment of Presumed Apparitions or Revelations
Catholic Register Reports Medjugorje Today Has Retracted Their Story About a Decision
From EWTN - The Catechism on Apparitions and a Good Discussion

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

edit on 7/31/2014 by FlyersFan because: fixed link

posted on Jul, 31 2014 @ 01:22 PM
a reply to: FlyersFan

May be you are more educated than me in Church canon laws.

Still, there are several exceptions:

Akita was approved and sister Agnes is still alive (perhaps with further visions that are not known to public).

Maria Esperanza's apparitions of Virgin Mary were approved, and Maria E. had a long life after that filled with supernatural encounters and mystical experience. Currently, she is on the track of beatification.

Fatima itself was approved while Lucia was alive and had new visions. Are they to be separated from the main Fatima visions (ended Oct 13, 1917) and thus to be discussed whether they themselves are approved or not? Demand to consecration of Russia is among them, as well as the First Saturdays. Furthermore, Francesco and Jacinta had their own experience however short, after the final apparition and miracle in Fatima. Jacinta reported the secrets of heaven and earth, that are barely known to public, thru Mother Godinho. A text written down in 1920 days before Jacinta to pass away. Why aren't we told of all that, and should an approved apparition seek additional approval of every single apparition of Our Lady after the date of approval? Isn't it too bureaucratic for Heavenly matter? Is this what the Heaven wants the bishops to do instead of relaying the Heaven's words WITHOUT CHANGES, as the doubts rise for many ongoing messages to be actually exchanged with milder wording?

Do we repeat therefore Fatima case over and over again? Our Lady warned in apparition in Hungary about unfulfilled Saturdays requirement in Fatima. What will be the warning of those latest unfulfilled requests made today that we don't even know of them if they were potentially changed. How could it be a requirement of Russia so solemn and taking decades to fulfill by several popes, to be sidelined in Medjugorje by the wording, not Russia but you must convert (early Ivan's interview, who speaks also of nuclear bombs). Is Russia converted or not? And what Our Lady told about it more specifically? Why should OL be willing to talk in Fatima and to want the secret to be released in 1960, and not willing to talk in Medjugorje in 1981 and on? Is it in the secrets? Mirjana refused to say whether the Great Warning is in the secrets or not.

Vatican and pope know all of that and more. They have the unique capability to combine apparitions over centuries, both known and unknown to public. What is the next they will offer to the suffering humanity as an exit way?

edit on 31-7-2014 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 31 2014 @ 02:07 PM
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

a reply to: 2012newstart

Fatima, Akita and Marie Esperanza.

The visionaries don't have to be dead to get approval of the apparition. That's not what I mean by 'the apparitions have to end'. The apparitions (Mary) in Fatima, Akita and Betania declared the public messages to be finished and the church approved the apparitions to that end point. All the supernatural things that happened with the visionaries privately after that were not considered public apparitions and those come under a different investigation - when their 'cause' is sent to Rome for Beatification.

In the case of Medjugorje, the public messages have not ceased so they church can not approve the apparitions. The best it can do is say 'no decision yet'. When the public messages cease, then the church can approve Medjugorje. Any private/personal supernatural events for the children (now grown) that come after the 'end' of the public messages, would then be investigated by the church if (when) their 'cause' for beatification goes to Rome.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

posted on Aug, 4 2015 @ 02:12 AM
Surprisingly for my previous positions on Medjugorje, that I never said to be 100% certain, now I find more and more very skilfully hidden satanic traces into the messages of Mirjana.

In her latest message allegedly received from someone pretending Virgin Mary, on Aug 2, 2015 she reports:

Do not waste time deliberating too much; you will distance yourselves from the truth. With a simple heart accept His word and live it. If you live His word, you will pray. If you live His word, you will love with a merciful love; you will love each other. The more that you will love, the farther away you will be from death. For those who will live the word of my Son and who will love, death will be life.

On first reading, it is just OK, speaking of God's love, life after death...However, where is the rescue way of a world that most probably goes into Akita-predicted fire from heaven? Is the death the only rescue way left by the alleged Virgin? If so, we already know that!

We know every human person must go thru the veil of death to reach the afterlife. We have that as Christian teaching for 2000 years, we have that as Bible texts for another 2000 years. All religions have it one way or another. We don't need that to be repeated over and over again by some higher than 3D personage that pretends Virgin Mary. Why the need to repeat it now, without whispering a word of a rescue, at least of some of the people?

On the background of increasing evidence of life on other planets beyond Earth, one cannot help but wonder, why God should want to destroy mankind on this planet? Why not to give a second chance at least for a few of us (not necessarily myself) to continue humankind on another planet, if this planet is doomed to event equal to a second Flood? Why should God and his representatives on Earth keep the knowledge of other worlds secret for so long? Why shouldn't the Virgin in so many apparitions speak of that possibility too?

May be exactly because many of the believers would like to choose that other option, instead to die en masse, and thus putting an end to earth's civilization and to earth's religion as well?

Is this the master plan of Satan? He doesn't need Christian religion on other planets. He wants everyone believer to die here. Therefore, talk as much as possible of love, prayer, God, and connect it to sacrifice, to culminate in the final sacrifice of all who buy it who will prefer not to save physically themselves and their children, in order to save their souls for so distorted image of heaven. Perhaps they will stand on a cloud when the earth's civilization burns out, along with every trace of Christianity on it. Thanks, but no thanks.

Such kind of spiritual reasoning should be given by pope and inquisitor when banning false apparition, satanic induced, or malevolent ET. Not reasoning of power and desire to command every step of everyone. What else is missing than the electronic devices that will track those steps?

posted on Aug, 4 2015 @ 02:34 AM
I don't say and don't want to be interpreted to say, that any of the 6 Medjugorje visionaries believes to translate messages of Satan. They believe it is the Virgin. Well it could be any higherD personage from any star system, not necessarily a choice between satan and the virgin.

The problem for messages that run 30+ years, apparitions on daily basis and messages on monthly, the problem is they do not give any rescue way out. What is persistingly introduced ESPECIALLY in Mirjana's last years of messages, is the notion the death is the only thing before us as perspective. Of course they speak of death in the Lord, of love, of life after, etc.

But that comes in contrast with Fatima message that intends to bring peace HERE IN THIS LIFE along with conversion of sinners, of nations. Perhaps John Paul 2 was mistaken to say Medjugorje is continuation of Fatima, while witholding Fatima message itself. Perhaps he and the rest just didn't want us know the real conditions Heaven has set for the arrival of era of peace, so the faithful can sacrifice themselves at the cross (in the vision of Lucia) instead to find the way to the era of peace ON THIS LIFE. Not necessarily on this planet though.

Perhaps one viable option is to transfer the life on another planet. Although that is not mandatory for now. We still don't know how the battle for planet earth will evolve. With all weapons piling up, including robotic drones killers. That changes the picture drastically, because those drones (the latest - Russian tank drone) could operate in postnuclear battlefields. In other words, they make the nuclear war winnable.

Should we let the earth to the strongest (as Alexander the great said) and be pacified with the thought that most of us who wouldn't participate in anyway would actually bear that cross, by dying instantaneously, or worse: by genetically modified bodies from radiation that will spread to generations after us? We are not told the truth, not even 0.1% of it. We need the full spectrum of possibilities and the right to choose between. Not one way ticket to heaven, that we will have it anyway at the natural end of our life in body. That is not a perspective for a civilization, humanity and religion that seek the Will of God for continuation of what Jesus Christ established on Earth. Or perhaps we are no more sure even of that? Where did Jesus ever say that humanity most of it must die first, and the Church must die first, before it resurrects? Never. Instead, He said, pray to escape all those things and to stand before the Son of Man.

So much of theology. Let we now learn the truth how many planets around us are populated and have breathing conditions so we can choose the proper transportation before the no return point on earth is reached. Perhaps it is delayed only because that transfer haven't been done yet. Don't call it a rapture, it is not.

posted on Aug, 4 2015 @ 03:09 AM
Furthermore, insisting upon Fatima's Lucia vision of the cross mountain mass murder as the only alternative, while witholding other key elements of Fatima how to get to the era of peace, is in essence satanic approach too.

Whether it is a real vision of Lucia as part of the grand picture, or whether it is fabricated by Vatican offices as substitute, we don't know. The pope and his aides should be fast to get out of the predestination of evil prophets that lead the people into the predicted doom. Rather of those who let the people OUT of the doom. We don't have more time of yet another pontificate wasted. Even if it is not the last one in history.

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