Richard Dawkins under fire for comments about rape

a reply to: uncommitted

Emotional appeal huh? I was just trying to get a baseline of what your opinion on the matter is. Apparently it looks like you cannot discuss this subject without letting your emotions get in the way. Such a shame.

For instance I never said one or the other wasn't a sickening crime. I just asked which one you thought was worse. Yet you jump right to emotional appeal.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Some people, as soon as they hear or read the word rape, all reason leaves their head.

That is because rape defies all reason. It is completely unjustifiable. Always. Regardless of circumstance.

originally posted by: new_here
That is because rape defies all reason. It is completely unjustifiable. Always. Regardless of circumstance.

And no one is arguing with that.

I cannot believe that, as a rape victim, I can discuss this more rationally than most...

a reply to: uncommitted
I'm curious, do you think my examples as a male being forced to have sex with women through fear of threat of violence/loss of job/control/dominance/power are as equally valid? The rarity value of female-on-male is irelevant to the person experiencing the crime of being threatened to perform sexual acts.
I did as I was told through fear, but I did not want to do it, and shut my eyes into an imagined place of #ing with someone else to make it happen as the women making real threats wanted it to happen, but not because I wanted to, because I was being blackmailed. Do we require reversed genders to describe that as rape?

Or do forced sexual acts not count if the person of dominance is the one receiving penetration?
...I think we all know the answer to that question.

originally posted by: new_here
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Some people, as soon as they hear or read the word rape, all reason leaves their head.

That is because rape defies all reason. It is completely unjustifiable. Always. Regardless of circumstance.

So that means we have to abandon all rational thought when talk about it and just start yelling at each other, letting our emotions make our decisions for us? Because that usually results in bad decisions being made. Just because the action is reprehensible and unjustifiable doesn't mean we can't discuss the topic like rational adults.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: new_here
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Some people, as soon as they hear or read the word rape, all reason leaves their head.

That is because rape defies all reason. It is completely unjustifiable. Always. Regardless of circumstance.

So that means we have to abandon all rational thought when talk about it and just start yelling at each other, letting our emotions make our decisions for us? Because that usually results in bad decisions being made. Just because the action is reprehensible and unjustifiable doesn't mean we can't discuss the topic like rational adults.

Not at all what I said. It just sounded like you did not understand why it was such a loaded topic. I feel it's quite rational to say rape is wrong, always wrong, and no one can decide what is more emotionally damaging to another human. One date rape incident to a teenager may destroy their trust in relationships for life, while another may work through it. I just think (my opinion) the blanket statement he made is ignorant of that fact. I hope that comes off sounding rational, because it seems so to me.

a reply to: new_here

Psychological damage can stay with someone for a lifetime for something as simple as a robbery or assault. We still have different levels of severity for each of those crimes though.

I gotta ask, to all the people who dislike him...what interviews are you watching because i have watched dozens of debates and one on one interviews with Richard Dawkins on Youtube and have found him to be incredibly polite, professional and respectful to who he was talking to (even in the face of utter stupidity like Wendy Wright the creationist).

I would suggest that you guys don't actually know much about him or seen or red anything of his and are just expressing a knee jerk reaction to the guys name.

Actually take an hour to listen to him speak and you will soon change your mind. Of course, if you have video links where you think hes being a "dick" or a "twat" or whatever else you guys call him, please share.

Rape had it's purpose pertaining to our early evolution, it's no longer needed to say the least. I can assure you, Dawkins is not condoning rape.

He's right, but that usually does not matter.

originally posted by: new_here
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Some people, as soon as they hear or read the word rape, all reason leaves their head.

That is because rape defies all reason. It is completely unjustifiable. Always. Regardless of circumstance.

Which has nothing to do with what he said.

Twitter and social media has come to represent a consolidation of conformity where thought crimes are now not only feasible but increasingly getting recognition, cause after all, who is going to step up to the plate and defend the seemingly atrocious in the face of such violent and emotional vehemence?

These people will swarm around these types of topics and shout down any resistance, in consequence it is similar to the proposed chilling effect of the NSA revelations of Snowden.

Essentially this is nothing but a modern vicarious form of bullying and these people have stepped up and taken it to another level. Paradoxically enough this trend can also be seen in an inverted fashion, just take the small town that had a whole movement based around protecting a 19 year old boy accused of pedophilia for example.
I don't know if this invalidates the whole idea but one explanation could be that these radicals seize upon isolated and niche subjects peculiar to their interests, so you'll have us ATS nutters off somewhere defending alternative media subjects.

Maybe it will all balance out in time, I certainly hope people get familiar with the idea of sock puppets and paid shills cause this is the actual reality we live in now.

Well if one were going to be raped, would they rather be "just" raped or raped AND be beaten within an inch of their life? It seems to me that some types of rape are worse than others. Seems like common sense really. And although it shouldn't have to even be said, this does not endorse or condone rape in any form. For someone to take a comment like this and turn it into something completely different is ridiculous.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

Dawkins wasn't correct from the get go! He's not only an
atheist. He's also a public figure which should mean trained
public speaker. But this amatuer stuff right here. Rape in any
form is one of the most brutal acts known to humans. It's equal
to murder as I understand it. And if a child is raped, it's my opinion
that is defintely murder. Because it kills the person the child would have been
without being raped. I think he was drunk.

originally posted by: uncommittedthe majority of which I note have a male figure as an avatar which kind of assumes they are male and do not have the first idea what they are talking about.

Yes, of course, men never get raped, do they?

Does anyone else think that a lot of the people who hate Richard Dawkins, simply because they are theists, some of whom have never read any of his work, are now jumping on this bandwagon?

Also a lot of people are ignoring the posts from women (who have admitted to being raped) who say Dawkins is right, why?

a reply to: djz3ro

Does anyone else think that a lot of the people who hate Richard Dawkins, simply because they are theists, some of whom have never read any of his work, are now jumping on this bandwagon?

Nope, can't even see the bandwagon for all the atheists having panic attacks.

originally posted by: randyvs
Nope, can't even see the bandwagon for all the atheists having panic attacks.

Why would this cause panic attacks among Atheists?

a reply to: djz3ro

Why would this cause panic attacks among Atheists?

I guess because they don't like bandwagons?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: grainofsand

Well that's what I'm trying to get at. I said on the page 2 that there are different types of murder or assault with different levels of severity. That doesn't mean that those crimes are reprehensible no matter the severity, just that some types of them are worse than others. Why should rape be any different?

yes, according to civil laws and country.

ask what's his name, hiding out in an embassy in london.

isn't he wanted in his home country for sex crimes?

berlusconi, polanski and the poor kid with a girlfriend a months younger than the consensual age.

statutory rape. wonder how he feels about that?

I dont particularly like him but hes somewhat right. I think the bigger issue is him being a jerk about how he said it so harshly. There are different kinds of rape and different kinds of rapists psychilogy behind their mindsets and reasoning. Acting like all rape is equally bad is psychologically damaging to those victims of forms of rape that normally would not effect them as much because they get put in victim mentality or on the other end of things it makes those with more violent rape be undermined. For example statutory rape where both parties are fully concenting in situations no one is taking advantage there is no reason to compair this to rape like its name suggests. Being taken advantage of mentally or physically can happen to someone of any age by someone of any age so pushing age steriotypes causes issues. As for stuff involving a victim being drunk or high that gets complicated because you have to factor in if the other person knew or not and if the other person was also influenced. So yes not all rape is the same and Dawkins is an insensitive jerk.