Satanists Demand Religious Exemption From Abortion Restrictions, Cite Hobby Lobby Ruling

a reply to: OccamsRazor04
I was using medical treatment as an indirect referal to an abortion when using the analogy.

People forget things or get in situations of failure. Birth control and condoms can fail sometimes although rare but there is no reason. I dont think someone should be allowed to get endless abortions is what I meant. People do not treat or view abortion the same way as birth control pills or condoms is what I mean by it not being first. Yes it is first but not resort wise. Its a last resort not first. They can not time travel and change the past.

Wow i spelled it out for you every single analogy on what it meant and you still miss it. I have to do it again:
Crossing street = sex = the action
Hit by car = get pregnant = the unintended outcome

You make it sound like you care more about punishing woman for having sex and becoming pregnant than you care about any baby. Thats what the impression you give off. They did not decide to become pregnant so you shouldnt get to decide what they do with their body against their will. Not saying you do not care about lives of feotuses you want to become babies but punishment is the stronger motivation it may seem.

Im just gonna leave it at that so this thread doesnt have to derail more.

a reply to: Aural

It happens, just very rarely, and I do not see anyone arguing abortion should only be for those who are using BC that fails, so red herring.

People are allowed to get endless abortions. I disagree with it as well.

I know what you were trying to do with your analogy, look back, I explained why it doesn't work.

Who is punishing anyone? Go ask 100 mothers if having their child is punishment. Then go ask 100 women who had an abortion if they were traumatized by it. I personally know 13 women who had abortions, 12 of them were traumatized by it, several were misled into thinking it was no big deal only to realize what they did later, and one tried to kill herself after. This is in Massachusetts, almost all of their friends were very supportive (for those who told their friends).

Only one said it was not a negative experience.

So please show me where I am out to punish anyone. It's nice you finally get around to talking about what abortion SHOULD be focused on, but what the pro-choice crowd leaves as the pink elephant in the room, the baby.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Uh no I was not making a red herring I was making a statement of mutiple situations and you chose to ignore that and act as it is a fallacy.

I also explained why the analogy does work. You seemed to make the wrong connections. No analogy is perfect if it was it wouldnt be an analogy it would be the original subject. Youre just being nit picky.

You ask me to ask 200 women for you? No do it yourself.


You like to point out what you think are fallacies then play your own anecdote and an appeal to emotion. If they went into it thinking its nothing thats on the doctors methods of informing them on things and it is on themselves to make thought out judgments of actions they can take. Also you did not seem to mention what term these people you know were in when they got an abortion which effects a persons psychological effects. Also how long they thought of things would have an effect.


So what youre saying is you dont think woman are capable enough to judge for themselves on what to do thus they should be legally bound and forced to carry full term?

Actually pro-life ignores the baby more than pro choice. It for many is just focusing on forcing someone to pop out a baby but once its born the outcomes of such situations are often ignored. Ignoring overpopulation, ignoring financial needs to raise a child, ignoring how many children up for adoption do not get adopted, ignoring how unwanted children may be abused or neglected, ignoring how adopted children may be abused, ignoring what someone born into that situation would feel, ignoring full grown babies being thrown in dumpsters or drowned in bath tubs you see in the news, ignoring the ability of someone to raise a baby..... Sure things work out for some but you cant ignore the heavy down sides.

a reply to: Aural

Not saying its not legit just that it is a bit tricky how classification works. On non legal standards it does fit crieteria as a religion. What or who is scotus?

Satanism has been officially recognized by the US government as a religion and also the US military has Satanic Chaplains!

SCOTUS is an abbreviation for Supreme Court of the United States.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

What they are claiming their belief is simply is not against what they claim to have an issue with.

I could say the same about Hobby Lobby owners and their blatant hypocrisy, not to mention, in this rare instance, both the Bible and science are at odds with their beliefs.

What do you think it IS that they have an issue with?

On top of that, again I ask, what service are they being forced to PROVIDE. Because that is what the ruling is about, PROVIDING, not USING, a service. [/quotes]

No it isn't. It's about having the right to have a "Sincerely held belief" as a for profit corporation. However, in this case women are being forced to provide their person, money, their time and their mind.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
So yes, your comprehension does need work. Exactly what I said happened ... happened. She brought up malice, I responded. You said my argument was it's murder because of malice and forethought.

You responded that "abortion is malice", right down to mentioning

Or are they going with the intent to do it? malice (ˈmælɪs) — n 1. the desire to do harm or mischief

I already defined malice. I proved there is intent.

She said abortion is not murder with things like malice and so on, you responded that it is - hence your reply. How is that bad reading comprehension?

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
Is the ultrasound not scientific?

Nice strawman. The question is not "is an ultrasound scientific".

The question is "why are mandatory ultrasounds for no medical reason scientific."

You know what a strawman is?
www.nizkor.org...

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
If you believe education provided is inaccurate would the best option be to ensure the education is accurate rather than end the education?

“informed consent” laws that rely on misleading information about abortion risks is not only innaccurate it's unecessary in the first place.

Lets not pretend that it's pro-lifers wanting to change womens minds, using tactics like this since they can't outright ban abortion.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
What they are claiming their belief is simply is not against what they claim to have an issue with.

“informed consent” laws that rely on misleading information about abortion risks is the issue they are against.

You claim it's all 100% scientific and facts. It's not.

Using strawmen like "but Ultrasounds are scientific!", just shows willfull ignorance.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
The rest of your post relies on an erroneous analogy that is simply not analogous. The person having sex is trying to have sex, the person getting hit by the car is trying not to get hit.

The person having sex is not trying to get pregnant.

Especially if they use contraception which clearly indicates pregnancy avoidance counter-measures and they are well within their rights to take other measures if that contraception fails.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
People are allowed to get endless abortions.

For free? Doubt that.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Actually I would go with precedence and popularity of practice on what is considered to be alive. How many years old are you? The entire of the world uses the moment of birth format, unless you have some evidence to the contrary.

a reply to: windword

I was not aware its officially recognised but which form? LaVeyan/Atheistic? Spiritual/Theistic? Luciferianism?

originally posted by: Aural

You know nothing about Satanism except what you saw in some B movie

So very true. Same with Wicca, Luciferians, Atheists, etc.

For that matter, I don't think many Christians really know about their own belief -- besides "in name only".

This decision was so wrong.

The snowballing is just starting.

a reply to: igor_ats

I find it interesting they thought I was a girl (you seemed to follow along). Im a guy. I am not sure if they think defending girls is something only a girl would do or if it was just my purple letters and my avatar with a girl. Just mistaking gender in a subject like this makes me question motives.

originally posted by: sheepslayer247
a reply to: grey580

I don't think some folks understand what satire is.

Of course they don't. Satire is comedy for intelligent people. If you want to quickly point out the unintelligent in a group of people, make some satire either targeting their cause or even assisting their cause and pick out the ones who are immediately angered by it. Personally, I view the whole atheistic satanism thing as one big satirical joke against Christianity (I've actually considered writing a thread about it). I'm sure the actual satanists take it seriously, but come on, most of the religion appears to be tailored STRICTLY to piss off Christians. Their actions seem to correspond with this reasoning too. I personally have no problem with it since I feel a good way to show the silliness of certain positions is to take it to absurd lengths, but still I call em like I see em.

Yes LaVeyan Satanism is satirical. Their rituals mirror some Christian ones to poke fun at them. I find it odd people even within the religion sometimes take it more seriously than they need to. It has some nice points on things but I find it a bit immature in some of its philosophy. Only thing I am confused about is if the mention of magic in the Satanic Bible is meant to be taken literally or satirically.

originally posted by: Aural
a reply to: windword

I was not aware its officially recognized but which form? LaVeyan/Atheistic? Spiritual/Theistic? Luciferianism?

I really don't know much about Satanism, but here ya go:

Church Of Satanism Extracted from: DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY PAMPHLET NO. 165-13

U.S. Army Chaplains Handbook - Temple of Set

“OTHER” GROUPS
Baha’i Faith
Church of Satan
Church of Scientology
Church Universal and Triumphant
Gardnerian Wicca
“I AM” Religious Activity
Native American Church
Rastafarians
Temple of Set
United Church of Religious Science
Universal Church of the Master
Universal Life Church
Vajradhatu
Wicca

Hmmmm. I notice that the "Pastafarians" aren't listed!? LOL

I initially thought the Satanism bit was a jab at likening satanists with pro-choicers. You know the b-movie type thing.

originally posted by: Aural
a reply to: igor_ats

I find it interesting they thought I was a girl (you seemed to follow along). Im a guy. I am not sure if they think defending girls is something only a girl would do or if it was just my purple letters and my avatar with a girl. Just mistaking gender in a subject like this makes me question motives.

I was just going along with the poster, sorry I don't wanna come across as a white knight or anything lol. I always post in abortion topics if they spring up.

a reply to: igor_ats

Its okay, as I said I knew you were going with their lead thinking they knew. What I was saying is if they were so easily able to think i was female without seeing me around here long when most people presume someone to be male online although there are other ways to mistake me the chance it happened in this thread makes me question motives as being about controlling women and assuming they're incompetent.

originally posted by: Aural
Yes LaVeyan Satanism is satirical. Their rituals mirror some Christian ones to poke fun at them. I find it odd people even within the religion sometimes take it more seriously than they need to. It has some nice points on things but I find it a bit immature in some of its philosophy. Only thing I am confused about is if the mention of magic in the Satanic Bible is meant to be taken literally or satirically.

LaVey was an opportunist who wanted an excuse to justify sex orgies and sexual fantasies.

He was an extremist with a personal agenda, like Westboro is to Christians.

I doubt any true Satanist would consider him legit.