As an expat in Saudi, I can't help but notice these

a reply to: ketsuko

This is who is going to share in the kingdom of God:

Matthew 7:22,23 When the Judgment Day comes, many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord! In your name we spoke God's message, by your name we drove out many demons and performed many miracles!' Then I will say to them, 'I never knew you. Get away from me, you wicked people!'

John 1:12,13 Some, however, did receive him and believed in him; so he gave them the right to become God's children. They did not become God's children by natural means, that is, by being born as the children of a human father; God himself was their Father.

John 3:3 Jesus answered, "I am telling you the truth: no one can see the Kingdom of God without being born again."

Catholic, Protestant, Pentecostal, Orthodox, Coptic, Evangelical. These are all just labels, labels aren't going to save anyone, it is knowing Jesus and accepting that you need to be rid of your Adamic nature and accept Jesus' nature.

This is the core of Christianity, you don't have to believe it and many certainly have another point of view. In the interests of denying ignorance I brought it up, but this is the wrong thread to discuss it. I'm not trying to have the last word here, but I get tired of seeing the Christian doctrine misrepresented again and again so I brought it up in response to some of the posts here.

James 1:27
Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.

if masonry all those people think this whole "satan" (adversary, slanderer, whatever) thing is just a load of bunk they mass as well toss all their bibles out the nearest window..
..but they don't do that, do they?

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
This does not equate to a multi-millennium plot to take over the world manipulated by persons of power and influence strategically operating throughout the world.

I was replying to your disbelief that you think such "multi-millenium" plot is insane. You think such plot is ugly but not unless you believe in reincarnation or afterlife just like the beliefs of suicide bombers that's why they don't think twice blowing themselves up.

What do you suggest is a practical alternative?? Point all your guns to the enemy and demand them to hand over their government??

We know for a fact it doesn't work.... ...That's what Hitler did and he failed miserably despite fielding the most technologically advanced and most powerful army in the opening days of WW2.

You'll have to be a lot more cunning than Hitler, or Napoleon, or Genghis Khan, or Alexander the Great if you want to conquer the whole world take a hold of it for a very long time.

Conventional warfare won't work. More like employing psychological warfare, deceit, making your enemies fight each other, terrorism, manipulation of mass media, controlling resources/amassing wealth, deceit, deceit, and deceit.


BTW, have you ever read of this?

“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.”

by Sun Tzu in The Art of War



We also know for a fact it doesn't work in most cases because in most cases, it is being done **hastily**.

What else is left? Working out a long-term plan of slowly introducing lies into society. A lie that will make people believe on worthless things. Worthless things the elite will amass in huge amounts to control the world.

originally posted by: Cinrad
No, actually the question was "What do you believe in Satan", you then fixed your typo later, so, no it was not simple.

The typo was fixed a few minutes after I wrote it and I subsequently asked you then same question again. You have still not answered it, how rude.

You asked me to be specific as to what the freemasonry agenda was, so that is where it came up. What are you doing?
You are telling us it is nonsense, yet freemasonry shares the symbols of other lucifer worshiping groups.

What are 'Lucifer worshipping groups'? What re their symbols?

The OP said they were freemasonry symbols, you said they were not owned by freemasonry and shared by other groups...

Really? Show me where I said this.

And no, I dont want to discuss Lucifer in another thread, but you obviously do, I'm sure you can find someone to do it with.

As I suspected, ill prepared to discuss the topic of your Lucifer-belief. The irony of people like you putting your beliefs on others is supremely comical. Just because you believe in the fantasy Devil does not mean everyone else does. I reject your mythology.

originally posted by: UNIT76
if masonry all those people think this whole "satan" (adversary, slanderer, whatever) thing is just a load of bunk they mass as well toss all their bibles out the nearest window..
..but they don't do that, do they?

I did not use a King James Bible when I was obligated so I certainly put my money where my mouth is.

originally posted by: johndeere2020
I was replying to your disbelief that you think such "multi-millenium" plot is insane. You think such plot is ugly but not unless you believe in reincarnation or afterlife just like the beliefs of suicide bombers that's why they don't think twice blowing themselves up.

I did not say it was ugly, I said it was retarded. Reincarnation and belief in an afterlife would not drive a group to compose a multi-millennium plot to install a world government/religion spanning every region of the earth.

This is obvious by the fact that there is no cohesiveness in the earth's religions or governments.

What do you suggest is a practical alternative?? Point all your guns to the enemy and demand them to hand over their government??

There is no practical alternative for 'world domination', the proliferation of nuclear weapons makes overwhelming force a poor option.

“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.”
by Sun Tzu in The Art of War
We also know for a fact it doesn't work in most cases because in most cases, it is being done **hastily**.

Sun Tzu also did not believe is superstitious mumbo jumbo:

Prohibit the taking of omens, and do away with superstitious doubts. Then, until death itself comes, no calamity need be feared.

What else is left? Working out a long-term plan of slowly introducing lies into society. A lie that will make people believe on worthless things. Worthless things the elite will amass in huge amounts to control the world.

You plan's fatal flaw is that he rests on the absolute altruism of every person either previously, currently or who will be involved in the future. Maybe if it were robots running the show I would think it possible, human nature, once factored in, does not permit this scheme to function over a lengthy period.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Cinrad
No, actually the question was "What do you believe in Satan", you then fixed your typo later, so, no it was not simple.

The typo was fixed a few minutes after I wrote it and I subsequently asked you then same question again. You have still not answered it, how rude.

The point of my reply was that instead of admitting that there had been a typo you implied, by saying "The question was simple", that I am not able to comprehend a simple question, therefore casting doubt on my level of intelligence, which you do again 3 times in your "challenges" to me to discuss in what way your beliefs are luciferian. Just because I am unwilling to discuss the luciferian aspects of your belief system, does not mean that I am unable to. Again, what are you doing?

originally posted by: Cinrad
...which you do again 3 times in your "challenges" to me to discuss in what way your beliefs are luciferian.

I think you missed the point (again), I want to discuss why you believe in Lucifer. I do not, so discussing my take on Lucifer is quite simple, he is make believe.

a reply to: Cinrad

Do you believe Lucifer is a version of Satan?

Do you read AND COMPREHEND the Bible?

originally posted by: johndeere2020
Saudi's country code is 966 (666??)

- 966 isn't 666.
- 666 might not even be 666. Many scholars think it's 616.
- Many scholars think 666 referred to a living person during Johns time.
- Revelation may or may not mean anything at all. Was it prophecy or was it a political allegory or was it just hallucinations by a religious old fella living in stressful exile and not having proper nutrition or medical care? Answer - unknown.

Anyways, I'm not worried about Saudi Arabia being '666'.
I'm not seeing it. Sorry.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

I did not say it was ugly, I said it was retarded. Reincarnation and belief in an afterlife would not drive a group to compose a multi-millennium plot to install a world government/religion spanning every region of the earth.

Suicide bombing is also retarded and it's driven by a belief of a great reward in after life...

Religion can push people to do retarded stuff, not to mention, religious cults conducting mass suicides, their leaders declaring themselves god and and preying on their women and children members. Are you seriously unaware of these things??

A religion with a long term master plan for world domination is not far fetched. And it's not that hard to conquer the whole world if you let time be your biggest ally.

There is no practical alternative for 'world domination', the proliferation of nuclear weapons makes overwhelming force a poor option.

Conventional or nuclear warfare (brute force) won't work. It might work but you end up dominating a tiny population of mutants (from the nuclear radiation). Quite an unprofitable plan for global domination.

You plan's fatal flaw is that he rests on the absolute altruism of every person either previously, currently or who will be involved in the future. Maybe if it were robots running the show I would think it possible, human nature, once factored in, does not permit this scheme to function over a lengthy period.

This is where religion comes into play. A religion based on racial purity/superiority, greed (amassing of wealth), and exploitation of the "sub-human races" through deception.

Just look at the Chinese and Indians, even just by greed alone, they have managed to acquire significant control of our modern lives. Yes, the Chinese worship a god of greed and they literally worship money. Look how far it got them today.

I have lived in many countries and everywhere I went, there are Chinese, Jewish, and Indian businesses employing the locals. We have literally handed our a**** off to them.

The Chinese for example, they may not be at the top of their respective fields but through numbers, they have managed to get a significant chunk of the control of the world through money. Ironically, who gave them power is no one else but yourselves, you have bought in to the lies of the mass media that brainwashed everyone that you are only worth the money you spend.

Control doesn't just come with a gun pointed at your head. Often it comes with a smile - "will you buy my stuff?" (that you don't really need) may it be a gadget, a leisurely activity, a hobby, an idea, a belief system, a religion.

It isn't so hard to do and you will probably get rich and powerful yourself. It has so many perks that you don't need a robot to do it for you.



All you need to dominate the world in a thousand years is really just:

- Religion - to keep members loyal to the cause and to desensitize them from exploiting/deceiving "lesser races".

- Invent/create a need - such as money (money did not exist before), oil, gold, banks, security (such as National Security) fast food, weapons, working for someone else, entertainment, electricity, pharmaceutical industry, jewelry, electronics industry, etc, etc..

- Finally which is to **control** the need. And you'll have the world in a silver platter. You should have no problem controlling the need if you are the one who invented it or found it and one of the first to deliver the need (the pioneers)

- Also much work in between is through the spreading of lies, fabricated stories, religions, news, etc. Lies that will prove advantageous to the agenda.


You can actually be in control of the world "behind the lines" in much less time - only few centuries or less. But to truly come out blatantly without resistance and to "force" the world into submission will take a lot more time and extreme events initiated by the members themselves such as a world war or mass terrorism.


Those are some secrets I just gave away. You can actually use such tactic to make yourself rich and powerful within your lifetime if you put some effort into it... ...And if you are evil enough and think of other people as things that make money for you.


What else could we learn from these mental exercise?? That only a few gets to the top and the "early bird gets the worm". Our system that places great emphasis on material wealth is literally a pyramid. No matter how hard and cunning everyone tries to be, only few will get to the top. the pattern is a pyramid. And the irony is that a pyramid is printed in the US dollar.

a reply to: johndeere2020

All of this ignores that fact that your premise would require nearly unanimous altruism amongst the participants for thousands of years.

Human nature says this will and has not happened.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: johndeere2020

All of this ignores that fact that your premise would require nearly unanimous altruism amongst the participants for thousands of years.

Human nature says this will and has not happened.

Why do you keep ignoring the fact that religion can easily override human nature?

There are tons of real world examples for this.

You can't deny facts. Denial of facts is to welcome ignorance. That is the opposite of the motto of ATS!


I have already explained in my long reply above yours that religion is a key ingredient in establishing global dominion. Either you didn't read it or you don't believe it (despite what religion can do to people to do retarded stuff).

originally posted by: johndeere2020
Why do you keep ignoring the fact that religion can easily override human nature?

Show me where the world's religions are working in concert and have been for thousands of years.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
As I suspected, ill prepared to discuss the topic of your Lucifer-belief. The irony of people like you putting your beliefs on others is supremely comical. Just because you believe in the fantasy Devil does not mean everyone else does. I reject your mythology.

The existence of Lucifer is debatable, but I know for a fact that malevolent spirits do exist. I have experienced hauntings like those popularly documented ones (could not be explained by any physical phenomena) and even followed me on my overseas travels. The spirit that followed me made every house I lived in different countries haunted which also tormented the other people living in the house.

Of all the religious beliefs, there are hard evidences of the spiritual world with malevolent entities. They are capable of creating strife. I could sometimes hear/feel them before they control/influence another person to do an act that would upset another. Ignoring the person or not getting yourself bothered works because it's not the person who is control (would not do such thing if they are in control of themselves)

Most people don't experience such things because people are generally positive. But when there's too much fighting, too much bitter arguments and shouting, etc. they will eventually manifest. These things manifest on negative energy. Eventually, something unseen will be pulling your feet at night. Children are usually the first to suffer.

originally posted by: johndeere2020
The existence of Lucifer is debatable, but I know for a fact that malevolent spirits do exist.

They are both make believe.

a reply to: johndeere2020
Except Freemasonry's roots are Judeo-Christian since the legend of King Solomon's Temple is found both in Christian doctrine and Jewish doctrine.

I will reiterate what my companions have said, symbols are not exclusively owned by any one group, so they be used by various groups at different times or at the same time, with different intents and uses.

a reply to: Cinrad
Of course, we are.

a reply to: Cinrad
Nothing in Freemasonry has to do with the "prince of darkness, lucifer, satan, antichrist."

a reply to: johndeere2020
"Could have" doesn't cut when you are demonizing or damning someone.

Masonic origins of the USA? There were more non-Masons than Masons who worked to free the colonies from the British Crown. Plus, if it was the Masons that did this, do you find it wrong that the people were allowed to govern themselves?

...A good fruit cannot come from a bad tree.

Nor do you burn down an orchard because of a few bad apples.

Plus, you haven't shown that Freemasonry is a bad tree.

a reply to: johndeere2020
Well, Freemasonry cannot be held accountable for what the US government does. And yes, I do know we are a harmless group.

As someone who who researches numbers and statistics all day (mostly with application to International Security) and someone who understands basic logic, your arguments make me cringe.

If we do some roleplaying and I take the role of the deceiver, I would have done the same thing. Cover an evil deed in the name of by doing good deeds later on in the name of....

Except you need to establish what the fraternity did, as a fraternity, that can be considered an evil deed. This you have not done yet.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: johndeere2020
Why do you keep ignoring the fact that religion can easily override human nature?

Show me where the world's religions are working in concert and have been for thousands of years.

That is not the context of my reply.

It's very clear in my reply that you've quoted. I could give you an example of what you're asking, I just don't like the manner you asked it. I feel like you're trying to put words in my mouth.

a reply to: johndeere2020
Actually religious fundamentalism has little to do with suicide terrorism. Robert Pape, with his Chicago Project, has done extensive research on this subject and he finds that usually suicide terrorism follows nationalism. Suicide terrorism is often not a rogue agent, but is an actor a part of a campaign against a perceived foreign aggressor. Often times suicide terrorism will be employed against a democratic state with military forces in another country who are seen as exerting undo influence over the state and local governments. If anything, the data prior to the start of the Iraq and Afghanistan conflict, shows that Marxist groups are more likely to use suicide terrorism than other forms of terrorism. What is worse is that it works because it strikes fear into the hearts of the citizens, domestic and foreign. This is the reason we saw it used heavily in Iraq and in Afghanistan is because it works and the leaders of terrorist groups realize this. They just use religious mantra to recruit, but religious beliefs has little do with why suicide terrorism was used versus other forms.

a reply to: UNIT76
Every Mason has his own religious belief.

originally posted by: johndeere2020
It's very clear in my reply that you've quoted. I could give you an example of what you're asking, I just don't like the manner you asked it. I feel like you're trying to put words in my mouth.

Then your reply is pointless in regards religion being a motivating factor.

Do you see the world's religions driving towards the same goal? Take your suicide bombers for example, are they working with the other religions to further some multi-millennial agenda?

Where is the organizational cohesiveness? How do they align their goals to drive this plan you hypothesize?