Cataclysm and The Taurid Threat

The Running of the Bull

I just finished reading Hancock's " The Mystery of Mars " and am starting this thread to discuss his main point that in the Taurid debris field, there exsists cometary and asteroidal debris left as remnants of a huge , ancient cometary fragmentation that poses a most distressing potential for catacylsmic impact on our Earth.

The theory is as such:

LINK TO CLUBE AND NAPIERS WORK:

adsbit.harvard.edu...

Millenia ago a giant comet entered our solar system, over thousands, or millions of years its orbit drew it ever so nearer the sun untill at one point its Roche limit was reached and it fragmented into millions of smaller, yet equally alarming pieces of debris. Comet Encke is but one discovered, of an untold and undoubtedly numerous undiscovered, Earth crossing and potentially planet killing comets within the Taurid stream.

The original giant comet was in a large elliptical orbit around he sun and as it fragmented ( not unlike SL9 ) its orbit distributed the debris around the sun in a tholus. We Earthlings find ourselves crossing this stream every June and November as our orbit interesects this debris field twice, each revolution around SOl that we make.



It is generally accepted throughout the astronomical community that although great strides have been made in identifying potentially Earth crossing asteroids and comets, it is true that for every 1 object identified there are likely at least 2 that go unknown. There is no doubt that that there are impactors that can, and have indeed hit the Earth from this debris field. The Tunguska event was a Taurid stream impactor. The moon was blasted at the turn of the last millenia, again by debris from the Taurid stream.


LINK T OASHER, D.J.; CLUBE, S.V.M.; STEEL, D.I. work:

adsabs.harvard.edu...

The Taurid stream is an elliptical tholus with denser debris towards it center, and gradually more dispersed as one views it outwards from there. There is a dark dust field within the center which in fact masks almost all light from escaping , and thus prevents our optical telescopes from piecring its most menacing ( potentially ) veil. There is speculated to be within this dust cloud many unknown objects. The most significant being a comet with a mass as large as Encke, or perhaps greater.

Link to general info regarding Taurid stream:

www.morien-institute.org...

MORE SOON

I should have added to my initial post, that as always all input and discussion from any and all here at ATS is more than welcome.

I am particularly interested in correlatting the Taurid stream with potential impacts on Mars, and the moon. I also would like to discuss the possibility of Mars' moon Phobos as being a captured fragnment from the Taurid stream.

I am also very interested in putting forth a theory on ancient maegaliths as terrestial indices of ancient knowledge of the Taurid threat. I will include my theories in coming posts

Best Regards

Alias Jones

Originally posted by Alias Jones
I also would like to discuss the possibility of Mars' moon Phobos as being a captured fragnment from the Taurid stream.

Phobos and Deimos are asteroid like objects, not comet like.


There's one BIG error in that site: meteors don't survive to surface, they burn completely in atmosphere.
And only bigger impacts rise enough dust to upper atmosphere causing "nuclear winter".
If there would have been enough small meteoroids to form dust cloud over the atmosphere meteor storm itself would have made sky look like it would be completely on fire.
And there would be definitely considerable amount of marks from that in ice cores from Greenland and Antarctis. Also people would have surely left some kind of markings about that.

Just as notice. Earth's mass increases considerable amount in every day even in normally... I think estimated mass of dust and meteoroids entering atmosphere daily is around hunred(s) tons

[edit on 3-12-2004 by E_T]

THere is no difference between asteroid like and comet like. Inert comets are indeed visible as asteroids untill the inner gasses are heated by the sun to the point where they escape exhibiting the telltale comet tail. It is indeed true that Phobos and Deimos appear as asteroids now, however ther is no conclusive proof, nor for that matter any reasonable evidence that they have always been so.

In fact there are several possibilities of comets " appearing " as astroids. THe first being that they are too far away from the sun to exhibit outgassing. Another is that some comets exude a tarlike substance which cools and hardens rendering the outgassing inpossible untill the inner pressure builds up .

So as you are so quick to say that Phobos and Deimos are more asteroidal than cometart ythat may indeed appear to be true at the present time. However as stated ther is no proof that they ar not innert comets trapped in the pull of Mars' gravity. At leas not to my knowledge.

Also it is not necessarily true that only massive impacts can cause the " nuclear winter " on Erth. In fact it is more than likely that rather than one massive impact , several large impactors, the fragments of one larger body it would be safe to assume, hit Earth as multiple blow. NOt nly do I find this more likely, it also helps to explain why the traces are so difficult for us to find. For as the multiple impacts of say 3 100 meter asteroids would due more damage to the Earth than one single 300 meter bolide. The ever changing surface of the Earth would easily conceal the traces of such a multiple impact.


You say markings would be considerable, and not meaning to degrade your valued input, but I respectfully must disagree. In fact there would liklely be very little in the way of conclusive proof due to the constant evolution of or beloved planets surface. There is no doubt that debris from the TAurus stream has impacted Earth, and as such we are not excluded from the certainty that we will be hit again

Yes there is. A comet is smaller and an asteroid is less round and big like potato shaped. A comet is also more round.

Originally posted by Alias Jones
THere is no difference between asteroid like and comet like. Inert comets are indeed visible as asteroids untill the inner gasses are heated by the sun to the point where they escape exhibiting the telltale comet tail. It is indeed true that Phobos and Deimos appear as asteroids now, however ther is no conclusive proof, nor for that matter any reasonable evidence that they have always been so.

In fact there are several possibilities of comets " appearing " as astroids. THe first being that they are too far away from the sun to exhibit outgassing.

First thing is they aren't too far from sun, they are well within zone where comets emit dust and gas tails.
Hale-Bob was detected with considerable tail when it was near Saturn's orbit.

Deimos [DEE-mos] (panic) is a moon of Mars and was named after an attendant of the Roman war god Mars. Deimos is a dark body that appears to be composed of C-type surface materials. It is similar to the C-type (blackish carbonaceous chondrite) asteroids that exist in the outer asteroid belt...
Both Deimos and Phobos are saturated with craters. Deimos has a smoother appearance caused by partial filling of some of its craters.

Phobos [FOH-bohs] (fear) is a moon of Mars and was named after an attendant of the Roman war god Mars. Phobos is a dark body that appears to be composed of C-type surface materials. It is similar to the C-type (blackish carbonaceous chondrite) asteroids that exist in the outer asteroid belt.

www.solarviews.com...


Here's high-res image:
www.esa.int...

Here's also asteroid Gaspra.

photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov...
As you can see there's not much sharp details/surface formations and there's dust everywhere.


For comparison here's Wild 2 photos taken by Stardust:

photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov...
Surface is very rough (with lot of sharp edges) and eroded because of gas eruptions which also blow away dust from surface.

For old nucleus of comets you have to to look toward those asteroids which have very elliptical orbit. (which generally cross earth's orbit)

Originally posted by Alias JonesI just finished reading Hancock's " The Mystery of Mars " and am starting this thread to discuss his main point that in the Taurid debris field, there exsists cometary and asteroidal debris left as remnants of a huge , ancient cometary fragmentation that poses a most distressing potential for catacylsmic impact on our Earth.

Given that we intersect the field twice a year and that we've mapped out most of the large recurring objects, I believe we have the largest items in the field already mapped out.

Comet Encke is but one discovered, of an untold and undoubtedly numerous undiscovered, Earth crossing and potentially planet killing comets within the Taurid stream.

Comets aren't considered much of a hazard. Besides, you can see them coming from a very long way away.

The Tunguska event was a Taurid stream impactor. The moon was blasted at the turn of the last millenia, again by debris from the Taurid stream.

Not proven. Suggested, but not proven.

In response to your "boiling away" item, I should point out that any "covering" would have been boiled away long ago and that the "covering" doesn't re-form. So after one trip around the sun, you'd see it as a regular comet thereafter.

Originally posted by Byrd

Originally posted by Alias Jones
The Tunguska event was a Taurid stream impactor. The moon was blasted at the turn of the last millenia, again by debris from the Taurid stream.

Not proven. Suggested, but not proven.

Actually expeditions made in 1990s found small particles of rocks embedded in survived old trees and composition of those particles is same as in common stone meteorites/asteroids.

Some answers from Tunguska mute witnesses

Tunguska home page - University of Bologna:
www-th.bo.infn.it...

www.psi.edu...