Iran Playing "Hide and Seek" with its Nuke Program

Originally posted by Sep

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
The EU has got Iran to put cameras in its Uranium enrichment facilities. Now they have all the security of a 7-11

This was tried in N Korea with the cameras and it worked real good.

They should not be allowed to do this but if Iran is happy then ok.

Iran allowed the EU to do this during negotiations they were not forced in any way that I can tell. This seems to be act of good faith on part of Iran towrds the EU.

I cant say how effective it will be but its a step in the right direction

Originally posted by Chakotay
Many Iranians pray for peace. This is what happens to them in Iran. Reagan and Gorbachev made peace by meeting together without deception or obfuscation and with a sincere mutual desire to avoid war. If Iran wants war, deception and obfuscation are sure means to get one. The way to peace is clear: collective security and renunciation of WMD. Gorbachev called it 'Glasnost'. Butchery of infidels is not a confidence builder.

It may seem hypocritical that the members of the Security Council have WMD, then go after those trying to acquire WMD. Unless you think like cops clearing a hostile room: anyone with a gun goes down. That's just the way it is.

Let's hope everyone starts talking before its too late.

First: The Bahai's are for the future. They are too nice to everyone. I wanted to become a Bahai once. Their religion will prevail in 50-100 years and it is fairly predictable from the clergy to not want a new religion in their country because they will lose power. All the best to the Bahais.

Second: Iran has not called for the killing of all Americans to my knowledge. But many many people have called for the butchering of the people in the Middle East and have done so in Iraq. Iran has not "butchered" any Americans. The two countries will becom friends within 10 or so years. They would have been friends by now if it wasnt for the axis of evil speach.

Third: abouy the cops statement, America should learn that they are not the cop of the world. They have done everything that the criminals would have done so I would not make them cops. They have used chemical weapons, nuclear weapons and have sponser terrorism more than any known country. They have supported dictators overthrown demoracy and have invade other countries without being provoked. I am not sure that they should keep their nuclear weapons, being the cop of the world is ou of the question.

Lets be logical here...

Iran has a government that is not on the friendliest terms with America but that in itself means nothing. Their government is relatively stable and understands the consequences of an unprovoked nuclear strike on their part. They may be a theocracy but they are not the wild eyed bunch most mullahs are made out to be. They are mostly concerned with maintaining their own power and not starting some religious holywar despite all their rhetoric to the contrary. A large deal of power is held by the religious arm but there are secular aspects to their nation which form a counterbalance. Any attempts at martyrdom on a genocidal scale would be met with revolution and civil war. Such results are anathema to any groups intent on maintaining control.

"If a day comes when the world of Islam is duly equipped with the arms Israel has in possession the strategy of colonialism would face a stalemate because application of an atomic bomb would not leave any thing in Israel but the same thing would just produce damages in the Muslim world", Ayatollah Ali Akbar Hashemi-Rafsanjani told the crowd at the traditional Friday prayers in Tehran.

The impression I get from this statement is that the ayatollah is refering to the fact that Israel is such a tiny country. So tiny that only a few nukes would be neccessary to literally wipe it off the face of the earth while the Muslim world on the other hand is so much larger and while devastated would not be annihilated like Israel. So while MAD is maintained for both sides one sides destruction will be that much greater then the others. This statement should not be taken as sign that Iran is planning on wiping Israel off the map with nukes preemptively despite what some of you may believe quite the contrary in fact. Its just Irans way of issuing a warning to Israel and is just more rhetoric form a nation thats full of it.

Originally posted by Sep

Originally posted by American Mad Man
Did you miss that hostage crises in 1980? Have you not noticed that they support terrorism?

To answere your question, what gives us the right to impose our will on them is that they are a THREAT TO US. If they were some benevelent nation we wouldn't be talking about this, would we? If they didn't support Islamic extremists we wouldn't be talking about this, would we?

The hostage crisis was provoked by the US. They allowed the Shah in their country an when asked to return him to the country for judgment the US didnt. How would you feel if Iran treated BinLadin for cancer?

You just don't get it do you? You don't go taking innocent hostages! I don't expect you to understand this. You support Iran, one of the most hideously evil regimes in the world. BTW - on the subject of OBL - Iran already supports terrorism. I rest my case, as you have proven it for me.

As for the they are a threat to us. I believe some one said they can not keep a military assult out of their country. If they cannot even defend their own boarders what threat are they to others?

You don't need a strong military to give a few terrorists nukes, now do you. So why you and your pathetic kind keep saying "ohhh, they are so harmless" or "the US has them, why can't they" Iran makes them and gives them to some terrorist who goes and nukes MY country, with MY relatives in the top 3 targets (NYC, DC, LA).

To put it bluntly, NO ISLAMIC THEOCRACY IN THE MIDDLE EAST IS RESPONSABLE ENOUGH TO BE TRUSTED WITH SUCH A WEAPON.

If they attempt to aquire one, I will support any and all action taken against them including nuclear first strike.

As for them being a terror nation they started their support for Hezbollah at the same year as the US gave aid to BinLandin and I honestly cannot see the diffrence between Hezbollah and the Mujahedin

Did we give OBL nukes? NO! Did we even entertain the thought? NO! Would Iran? OF COURSE THEY WOULD!

You don't get it - their government supports the KILLING OF ME!

I TAKE THAT PERSONALLY! I am not muslim, therefor I am an infedel, and thus, I must be killed. Sorry, Iran needs to be taken care of, and quickly. I hope they just let us inspect their stuff and cooperate - that way they can keep their country and there will be no problems. Otherwise, the US will send a clear message - and it will be in actions not words.

>>You just don't get it do you? You don't go taking innocent hostages! I don't expect you to understand this. You support Iran, one of the most hideously evil regimes in the world

Originally posted by American Mad Man
You just don't get it do you? You don't go taking innocent hostages! I don't expect you to understand this. You support Iran, one of the most hideously evil regimes in the world. BTW - on the subject of OBL - Iran already supports terrorism. I rest my case, as you have proven it for me.

I dont support the Iranian regime. But I do like them more than the US puppet who killed around 100000 civilians. He killed 15000 in one day called black friday.

And on the supporting terrorism. If you would agree that the Mujahedin the US supported were terrorists then I would agree Iran supports terrorists.

You don't need a strong military to give a few terrorists nukes, now do you. So why you and your pathetic kind keep saying "ohhh, they are so harmless" or "the US has them, why can't they" Iran makes them and gives them to some terrorist who goes and nukes MY country, with MY relatives in the top 3 targets (NYC, DC, LA).

Iran has never given dictators, terrorist or any one evil WMDs. It has never used WMD (according to UN and all the official records). The fact that the west gave Saddam WMDs and gave them the green light to use it tells me that the west and America do not exactly care for my country and they would use WMDs to destroy it. Therefore the country need a form of retaliation. And they are getting it.


And please stop saying they will provide terrorists with WMDs. Even the Americans on the forum have agreed that they will not.

To put it bluntly, NO ISLAMIC THEOCRACY IN THE MIDDLE EAST IS RESPONSABLE ENOUGH TO BE TRUSTED WITH SUCH A WEAPON.

If they attempt to aquire one, I will support any and all action taken against them including nuclear first strike.

Your government doesnt agree with you. They are providing Pakistan with aid even though they are living under a dictatorship, are unstable and are muslim (the religion you dont trust)

Did we give OBL nukes? NO! Did we even entertain the thought? NO! Would Iran? OF COURSE THEY WOULD!

You didnt and neither has Iran even though it could. It like saying 100 years from now America might give weapons to terrorists therefore we should take them out. What you are saying is simply basless.

You don't get it - their government supports the KILLING OF ME!

Unless you are an Israeli soldier in the occupied terrotery in the middle east that is not true.

I TAKE THAT PERSONALLY! I am not muslim, therefor I am an infedel, and thus, I must be killed.

Sorry if you feel that way. What you say is against many parts of the Islamic Republics constitution. Article 14:

"In accordance with the sacred verse; ("God does not forbid you to deal kindly and justly with those who have not fought against you because of your religion and who have not expelled you from your homes" [60:8]), the government of the Islamic Republic of Iran and all Mu slims are duty-bound to treat non-Muslims in conformity with ethical norms and the principles of Islamic justice and equity, and to respect their human rights. This principle applies to all who refrain from engaging in conspiracy or activity against Islam and the Islamic Republic of Iran. "

Again sorry if you have that impression

Sorry, Iran needs to be taken care of, and quickly. I hope they just let us inspect their stuff and cooperate - that way they can keep their country and there will be no problems. Otherwise, the US will send a clear message - and it will be in actions not words.

I believe Iran has already allowed the inspection of every nuclear reactor. The IAEA is simply not allowed to visit military bases. The is simple double standards. No matter how much the West hates Iran we still are a part of the law and are no exception. They are not allowed to visit bases in Australia, America, England, France, Canada or any "free world" country for that matter. Iran is no diffrent and should draw the line now before its too late.



[edit on 4-12-2004 by Sep]

[edit on 4-12-2004 by Sep]

[edit on 4-12-2004 by Sep]

Originally posted by American Mad Man


As for them being a terror nation they started their support for Hezbollah at the same year as the US gave aid to BinLandin and I honestly cannot see the diffrence between Hezbollah and the Mujahedin

the mujahddin fought soviet ocupation
like hezbollah are fighting Israeli occupation

Originally posted by American Mad Man


You don't get it - their government supports the KILLING OF ME!

which goverment wouldnt

Originally posted by American Mad Man


Sorry, Iran needs to be taken care of, and quickly. I

why say sorry ?
its not you that will be deciding what the country does
go to war and so on

Originally posted by American Mad Man
Did we give OBL nukes? NO! Did we even entertain the thought? NO! Would Iran? OF COURSE THEY WOULD!

and have they armed habuleh or any other terrorist with chemical weapons? ( since you lot think they will arm them with nukes all the sudden )



[edit on 4-12-2004 by bodrul]

Originally posted by American Mad Man
You just don't get it do you? You don't go taking innocent hostages! I don't expect you to understand this. You support Iran, one of the most hideously evil regimes in the world. BTW - on the subject of OBL - Iran already supports terrorism. I rest my case, as you have proven it for me.

You support the US, one of the most hideously evil regimes in the world.
Look at how many leaders the US has removed from power and how many dictators the US has supported.
mirrors.korpios.org...

You are in no position to talk about Iran being evil.

You can take a look at your military interventions while you're at it.
www.wordiq.com...
You can't seem to go even 10 years without a war or a CIA backed operation in another country.

Originally posted by bodrul

Originally posted by American Mad Man


As for them being a terror nation they started their support for Hezbollah at the same year as the US gave aid to BinLandin and I honestly cannot see the diffrence between Hezbollah and the Mujahedin

the mujahddin fought soviet ocupation
like hezbollah are fighting Israeli occupation


That was me not American Mad Man

Originally posted by SepTherefore the country need a form of retaliation. And they are getting it.


And please stop saying they will provide terrorists with WMDs. Even the Americans on the forum have agreed that they will not.

If you'd like to see your country attacked, thats a good thing to support. The US - and the west in general (IE Europe) will not allow this to happen. Niether will a little guy in your back yard named Isreal.

As far as the Americans agreeing with you, there are more Americans - and people in this world - that disagree with them. So it makes no difference to me.

Your government doesnt agree with you. They are providing Pakistan with aid even though they are living under a dictatorship, are unstable and are muslim (the religion you dont trust)

Yes - we provide them with aid. NOT NUCLEAR WEAPONS OR MILITARY AID. And believe me, my government agrees with me when I say Iran can not be trusted with nuclear weapons.

As for the Muslim religion, your right - I don't trust it. In fact, I don't trust ANY religion running a country, but ESPECIALLY Islam. Maybe you missed the thousands of people chanting "DEATH TO AMERICA! DEATH TO AMERICA!" but I didn't.

Here - from every muslims favorite news site:

Finance Minister Shawkat Aziz said on Tuesday under the agreement Pakistan would repay $200 million to the US, which would save it about $400 million-$500 million in interest payments over the period of the loan.

The rest of the money would mainly be used to improve health and education in Pakistan, he told a news conference.

Aljazeera

Did we give OBL nukes? NO! Did we even entertain the thought? NO! Would Iran? OF COURSE THEY WOULD!

You didnt and neither has Iran even though it could. It like saying 100 years from now America might give weapons to terrorists therefore we should take them out. What you are saying is simply basless.

It is nothing like looking 100 years down the road. Iran has ties with terrorists, and is controlled by a government that supports the same hardline Islamic fundamentalist thought. What I am saying is based concretetly on fact.

You don't get it - their government supports the KILLING OF ME!

Unless you are an Israeli soldier in the occupied terrotery in the middle east that is not true.

Why - because they don't outright say it? Give me a break - if they could kill a million Americans and get away with it they would in a heartbeat.

I TAKE THAT PERSONALLY! I am not muslim, therefor I am an infedel, and thus, I must be killed.

Sorry if you feel that way. What you say is against many parts of the Islamic Republics constitution. Article 14:

"In accordance with the sacred verse; ("God does not forbid you to deal kindly and justly with those who have not fought against you because of your religion and who have not expelled you from your homes" [60:8]), the government of the Islamic Republic of Iran and all Mu slims are duty-bound to treat non-Muslims in conformity with ethical norms and the principles of Islamic justice and equity, and to respect their human rights. This principle applies to all who refrain from engaging in conspiracy or activity against Islam and the Islamic Republic of Iran. "

Again sorry if you have that impression


Notice this little part of your quote :

This principle applies to all who refrain from engaging in conspiracy or activity against Islam and the Islamic Republic of Iran. "

I fall under the "activity against Islam" just for being American. We are the great devil - along with the Jews - in Islams holy war. And make no mistake - it IS war. It was declared long before America was even a country too.

Sorry, Iran needs to be taken care of, and quickly. I hope they just let us inspect their stuff and cooperate - that way they can keep their country and there will be no problems. Otherwise, the US will send a clear message - and it will be in actions not words.

I believe Iran has already allowed the inspection of every nuclear reactor. The IAEA is simply not allowed to visit military bases. The is simple double standards. No matter how much the West hates Iran we still are a part of the law and are no exception. They are not allowed to visit bases in Australia, America, England, France, Canada or any "free world" country for that matter. Iran is no diffrent and should draw the line now before its too late.

And it is in military bases where Iran will hide such things if we are not allowed to inspect their. And if they do that, then the US will take you guys out.

BTW - whenever there is a nuclear treaty, the nations involved ALWAYS get to inspect what the agreement was over. Like I said, the US and Russia allowed each other into their most secret nuclear facillities - and they were much more strained then Iran and the US are. Plus, these nations were on equal footing. I hate to break it to you, but Iran doesn't have anything to bargain with.

The moment they "draw the line" is the moment that the US, NATO, and/or Isreal attacks, and to be quite frank, there is nothing Iran can do to stop it. Against US technology, they are helpless.

Originally posted by AceOfBase

Originally posted by American Mad Man
You just don't get it do you? You don't go taking innocent hostages! I don't expect you to understand this. You support Iran, one of the most hideously evil regimes in the world. BTW - on the subject of OBL - Iran already supports terrorism. I rest my case, as you have proven it for me.

You support the US, one of the most hideously evil regimes in the world.
Look at how many leaders the US has removed from power and how many dictators the US has supported.
mirrors.korpios.org...

You are in no position to talk about Iran being evil.

You can take a look at your military interventions while you're at it.
www.wordiq.com...
You can't seem to go even 10 years without a war or a CIA backed operation in another country.

The USA evil

Give me a break.

Listen, you can love to hate the US all you want - call us evil - whatever. The fact is that for the last hundred years we have been the force that OPPOSED evil. Have we made mistakes? SURE. Were there tough decisions during the cold war? SURE. Were we TRYING to do the right thing in almost every case? YES!

BTW, I hope you like being under the banner of such an EVIL nation as the US. I mean, we are so EVIL we kept you from being run over by the USSR for 50 years.

Then again I'm sure you'd LOVE to live under comunist Russia rule. It would suit you and Canada just fine with you're extreme left thinking.

EDIT: looking at your avatar says it all. You Hate ol' Oli North soooo much don't you? You hate the fact he wouldn't let his men get hung out to dry like the liberal savior Kennedy did in the Bay of Pigs. Absolutly amazing. You would be lucky to be 100th the human that man is!

[edit on 4-12-2004 by American Mad Man]

All this discussion of past events of good and evil US vs Iran vs Iraq means nothing at this moment in time. What does matter it that Iran is a sponsor of TERROR. A hardcore Islamic throwback regime is trying to get Nukes and Missiles to KILL Jews and Americans. The evidence is overwhelming on this fact. To stop a global nuclear winter stop the MADNESS now. If someone could snap their fingers and render all NUKE inert, then go for it, otherwise we mere mortals must go to WAR to stop a bigger WAR.

Maybe you missed the thousands of people chanting "DEATH TO AMERICA! DEATH TO AMERICA!" but I didn't

Have you not ever wondered why they are chanting this? have you ever asked what it is that has been done to make people despise the US so much? Probably not.......

It would suit you and Canada just fine with you're extreme left thinking.

And I find it ironic that you distrust and call for the destruction of Iran so much because of their views, but then seem puzzled/angered when you get the same reaction back and people express their own opinions. Is it not ok for everyone to have their own beliefs/opinions?

Or is it just the beliefs/opinions of right-wing, bible hugging America that we are allowed to have?

In short, why are you preaching to the rest of us about how evil and oppressive Iran is, when going by what you have written above, you harbour just as prejediced and blinkered views as any man, and insult or deride those who's views difer from your own?

Maybe this is why the EU is getting more co-operation out of Iran than the US is, even with your "technology", and all-powerful (if woefully under trained and triggerhappy) military.

The EU has taken a much more progressive and co-operative approach to Iran than the US, and tangible benefits are a real possibility, rather than the US view of "Those darn A-rabs don got them some nooks.... we is gonna blow you up if you dont gone get rid of them"

Originally posted by DrHoracid
All this discussion of past events of good and evil US vs Iran vs Iraq means nothing at this moment in time. What does matter it that Iran is a sponsor of TERROR. A hardcore Islamic throwback regime is trying to get Nukes and Missiles to KILL Jews and Americans. The evidence is overwhelming on this fact. To stop a global nuclear winter stop the MADNESS now. If someone could snap their fingers and render all NUKE inert, then go for it, otherwise we mere mortals must go to WAR to stop a bigger WAR.

There is no proof of your ridiculous Bush-believing allegations. Hizbollah is not a terrorist organization, but a democratically elected political party in Lebanon. And Iran's official policy towards the israel problem is a one state solution encompassing all jews and palestinians, as well as those who have been driven from their homeland during the Naqba. A democratic all-encompassing solution.

Originally posted by stumason

Maybe you missed the thousands of people chanting "DEATH TO AMERICA! DEATH TO AMERICA!" but I didn't

Have you not ever wondered why they are chanting this? have you ever asked what it is that has been done to make people despise the US so much? Probably not.......

Typical. You try to justify that? are you kidding me? I don't chant "DEATH TO ISLAM!" because a bunch of Islamic wackjobs attacked me. All I want to do is prevent a nation that sponsers those nut jobs from getting nukes to use against me.

It would suit you and Canada just fine with you're extreme left thinking.

And I find it ironic that you distrust and call for the destruction of Iran so much because of their views,

Now when did I ever say that? You are putting words in my mouth and inferring things that I did not say. What I said was that an ISLAMIC THEOCRACY THAT SUPPORTS TERRORISM cannot be allowed to gain nuclear weapons. I don't give a crap what they do, so long as it isn't going to threaten myself or my country. Unfortunatly, the extreme version of Islam which is practiced by and has a strangle hold over their government wants my destruction. Case closed. Take 'em out if need be.

but then seem puzzled/angered when you get the same reaction back and people express their own opinions. Is it not ok for everyone to have their own beliefs/opinions?

No - it's not. It's NOT "OK" to believe you should kill everyone that is not of the same religion as you. It is NOT "OK" for thousands of people to gather to chant "death to America" or any country for that matter. These aren't just opinions dude - WAKE UP - they are deadly intentions. There is a BIG difference.

Or is it just the beliefs/opinions of right-wing, bible hugging America that we are allowed to have?

Nope - all those beliefs which don't involve killing people based on their nationality or religion are fine by me.

In short, why are you preaching to the rest of us about how evil and oppressive Iran is, when going by what you have written above, you harbour just as prejediced and blinkered views as any man, and insult or deride those who's views difer from your own?

Prejudice? HAHAHA - you must be kidding. Again - you want to lump me into a nice little stereotype that suits your agenda. GET OVER IT. I have insulted no one here - not a damned person. I have said what I believe - that Iran obtaining nukes is not acceptable. End of story. The reason is the incarnation of the religion which dominates that country has proven to be an enemy of mine.

Maybe this is why the EU is getting more co-operation out of Iran than the US is, even with your "technology", and all-powerful (if woefully under trained and triggerhappy) military.

Or maybe they are just getting the run around like this thread says. And please, don't go giving me this crap about our boys being undertrained. They aren't.

The EU has taken a much more progressive and co-operative approach to Iran than the US, and tangible benefits are a real possibility, rather than the US view of "Those darn A-rabs don got them some nooks.... we is gonna blow you up if you dont gone get rid of them"

Wow - and I am the one with prejudice? Give me a freaking break. You have gotten NO LONG TERM RESULTS from the EU. ZERO. ZILCH. NILL. NADA. ZIP.

So why you Europeans keep doing your peace talks, just like when you all let Hitler ass rape you, the US will grab it's big stick, speak softly, and get the results needed one way or another.

Typical. You try to justify that? are you kidding me? I don't chant "DEATH TO ISLAM!" because a bunch of Islamic wackjobs attacked me. All I want to do is prevent a nation that sponsers those nut jobs from getting nukes to use against me.

Exactly, a bunch of Islamic wackjobs... Not the whole religion, or Nation. You are (and have voiced your opinions quite clearly) prejedice against the WHOLE of Islam, just because of one terrorist attack involving 19 (apparently, even though some are still alive...) hijackers.

Now when did I ever say that? You are putting words in my mouth and inferring things that I did not say. What I said was that an ISLAMIC THEOCRACY THAT SUPPORTS TERRORISM cannot be allowed to gain nuclear weapons. I don't give a crap what they do, so long as it isn't going to threaten myself or my country. Unfortunatly, the extreme version of Islam which is practiced by and has a strangle hold over their government wants my destruction. Case closed. Take 'em out if need be.

As has already been covered, this is a bad case of calling kettle black. I can provide you with a list of very bad people and groups that the US has supported in the murderous endeavours.

And what extreme version of Islam is this? Surely not the same version as OBL? OBL cares little for Iran, and vice versa, as one practices the extreme Wahabi sect, and the other is Shia, a much more moderate group of Muslims. Shia and Sunni Wahabis are as different as chalk and cheese...read up on it, might expand your mind beyond your little neo-con box.

No - it's not. It's NOT "OK" to believe you should kill everyone that is not of the same religion as you. It is NOT "OK" for thousands of people to gather to chant "death to America" or any country for that matter. These aren't just opinions dude - WAKE UP - they are deadly intentions. There is a BIG difference.

And where are you getting this info from? Islam prohibits murder in all its forms, and has only been corrupted by the likes of OBL (who, as stated above, is a Wahabiist) for political gain. No different from what some extreme christian white supremecist groups. but should you hold ALL white people to account because of a small minority? Hell no....

Prejudice? HAHAHA - you must be kidding. Again - you want to lump me into a nice little stereotype that suits your agenda. GET OVER IT. I have insulted no one here - not a damned person. I have said what I believe - that Iran obtaining nukes is not acceptable. End of story. The reason is the incarnation of the religion which dominates that country has proven to be an enemy of mine.

Really? So attacking people because their "left wing" or "liberal" (I hate labels) thought differ from you own, and spouting quite obvious and ill thought out proto-garbage isn't insulting? Anyone with half an ounce of grey matter and an interest in the truth would find this offensive!

And what version of Islam is it that has quite clearly "proven" to your enemy that dominates that country? Please enlighten me, as I am quite obviously missing something.

Or maybe they are just getting the run around like this thread says. And please, don't go giving me this crap about our boys being undertrained. They aren't.

Thats another thread.. but I can tell you that the phrase "All the gear,but no idea", very often quoted by guys in the British Army at least, didn't come from nowhere.

Wow - and I am the one with prejudice? Give me a freaking break. You have gotten NO LONG TERM RESULTS from the EU. ZERO. ZILCH. NILL. NADA. ZIP.

So why you Europeans keep doing your peace talks, just like when you all let Hitler rape you, the US will grab it's big stick, speak softly, and get the results needed one way or another.

Why is it that they are even willing to talk to us? Because they trust us! Everyone knows that the EU has a balanced and fair view when it comes to the Middle East, whilst the US is very biased in favour of a small group of Eastern European immigrants who wanted somewhere warm to live.

And would you stop bringing up WW2, its tired, old and a well used argument, which is based on half truths and lies. When exactly did anyone in Europe "let" Hitler "rape" us? I find this offensive to say the least!

Britain stood firm against the aggressor on its own for well over 18 months.

France's Army was either Annihalted fighting and protecting the Britsh at Dunkirk, or the lucky few managed to get out with them. They where eventually sold out by a small group of traitors who wanted power for themselves.

The Dutch and Belgians where taken by surprise, but fought like lions.

The reasons for the quick defeat is mainly due to the reliance on slow moving infantry, and the doctrine of Blitzkieg enabled the Germans to punch through at speed and attack the hinterland, surrounding the slower and less manevourable infantry. Plus also the clear technical advantage at the beggining of the war.

In any case, we didnt want another war, as we detest war, we have seen first hand over many centuries what it does and wanted it no longer.

But that is the end of my WW2 History lesson for today, feel free to challenge it, I am sure it would be worth a laugh.

Originally posted by American Mad Man
Did you miss that hostage crises in 1980?

No, and it was settled peacefully. It was also a move to get Carter out of office. Look up your history.

Have you not noticed that they support terrorism?

They support destroying what threatens them. So does the USA. Whats your point? By your logic, The United States are terrorist.

To answere your question, what gives us the right to impose our will on them is that they are a THREAT TO US.

Yeah, they are going to swim across the ocean on camels and wage war
Using your logic, they would be justified in doing so because we have weapons that can reach them from American soil.

If they were some benevelent nation we wouldn't be talking about this, would we? If they didn't support Islamic extremists we wouldn't be talking about this, would we?

No, we would force them to join a coilition or face sanctions.

By your logic, Germany never attacked the US, so we should have never have gotten involved their either.

You do realize that Germany is not the issue here. Besides, we didnt just go into Germany. We were asked for our help. I dont see a damn country asking us to help them invade Iran.

Or do you have a magic number of how many people need to be killed before we are justified in doing the right thing? Or is it only worth doing if those people are white?

Your statement here is very undignified, very typical of a nationalist. If you knew me, you would know that I dont want ANYBODY to die, NO MATTER WHAT THIER COLOR, SO TAKE YOUR DIRECTIVE INSULTS ELSEWHERE!

Make up your mind - if we were right in fighting Hitler, we were right in fighting Saddam, and if Iran does not comply, we would be right in fighting them as well.

Thier are lots of nations not complying with what we want, I guess we should go invade them too? India has nukes, lets bomb the hell out of them and make everything OK. Pakistan has nukes, lets bomb the hell out of them and make everything OK. Your Logic is as twisted as that psychotic President we have in office right now.

You should change your name to American Nationalist Madd Man.

Pakistan has nukes, lets bomb the hell out of them and make everything OK. Your Logic is as twisted as that psychotic President we have in office right now.

If I may just add to that statement:

Whilst it is unproven, and unfounded to make accusations against Iran for Nukes, or prolifferating them to terrorists, Pakistan Nuclear scientists have actively been selling Nuclear secrets to North Korea and Libya, yet they go unpunished by the US...... go figure!

The US has supported many more dictators and all around bad people, than it has 'taken them out' These double standards we live by, well, they are not a Liberal idea.

Originally posted by stumason
Exactly, a bunch of Islamic wackjobs... Not the whole religion, or Nation. You are (and have voiced your opinions quite clearly) prejedice against the WHOLE of Islam, just because of one terrorist attack involving 19 (apparently, even though some are still alive...) hijackers.

No - I am NOT prejedice against ALL of Islam - I DO however have a problem with the PART of Islam that wants to kill all those that don't practice Islam. Those are the same people in control of Iran. It's very simple.

And what extreme version of Islam is this? Surely not the same version as OBL?

This kind:

Men, women and children marched through Tehran shouting: "Our people are awake, and hate America", and other slogans against the US and Israel.

BBC

And where are you getting this info from? Islam prohibits murder in all its forms, and has only been corrupted by the likes of OBL (who, as stated above, is a Wahabiist) for political gain. No different from what some extreme christian white supremecist groups. but should you hold ALL white people to account because of a small minority? Hell no....

If extreme white supremecist Christian wackjobs were running that country I would have the exact same concern! Thats what you don't get. My problem is not what religion it is, but that they will use religion as a justification to attack. The fact is, there are no radical Christian controled countries trying to rid the world of infedels to their religion - only Islamic ones. Thats just a fact.

Really? So attacking people because their "left wing" or "liberal" (I hate labels) thought differ from you own, and spouting quite obvious and ill thought out proto-garbage isn't insulting? Anyone with half an ounce of grey matter and an interest in the truth would find this offensive!

No more insulting then you attacking me for mine and putting your own "ill thought out photo-garbage".

And what version of Islam is it that has quite clearly "proven" to your enemy that dominates that country? Please enlighten me, as I am quite obviously missing something.

See above pictures and quote.

Thats another thread.. but I can tell you that the phrase "All the gear,but no idea", very often quoted by guys in the British Army at least, didn't come from nowhere.

I'm not even going to go there - let's just say if some Brits could actually read a map, they'd still be alive today.

Why is it that they are even willing to talk to us? Because they trust us!

They will talk to you because they know they can keep talking untill they have built their bomb. They will give the runaround to you guys for as long as possable. They know that Europeans don't have the mindset to back up their words, and they know they can call your bluff.

Thats EXACTLY what I would do if I were them - talk and talk and talk - and talk some more. Hell, I'm sure they will talk as long as they possably can.

As for WWII, I am sorry if you found it offensive, and honestly I do apologise for my less then apropriate word choice. My point is, the SAME THING HAPPENED IN WWII. You guys TALKED to Hitler. He BLATENTLY broke Germanys peace treaty from WWI - and you talked. He took Poland in September of 1939, you declared war...and then it took 8 months for you guys to even confront him in any major way!

This is what the US has learned, and I don't believe Europe has. When dealing with a threat, swift decisive action is the key.