Inmate's execution takes nearly TWO HOURS!

a reply to: NavyDoc

I knew the Neuropharmacology course I did would come in more use than the 30 credits needed to finish my degree

To be fair pharmacology is a fascinating subject and tempted to one day go back and expand on it further, though only routes now is a 2 year pharmacy degree conversion course or 3 years at med school.

While I respect the medically educated opinions, unless you've had large doses of dilaudid yourselves it's not possible to speak for the person in question.

Having been given large doses intravenously and orally, in a hospital setting and at home (prescribed), it's not the same story..

It feels a lot like an immediate onset of the flu.. (best way I can think to describe it). It is however very effective at stopping heavy pain.

He would not have suffered.

It only appeared he suffered.

If it walks like a duck...

I've always been 100% aware of my surroundings and what was happening to me.. There is no "bliss". Just wanting to add the perspective of someone who's walked miles in those shoes.

I understand and respect your opinions, and understand you disagree with mine (so no need for any "back and forth").

originally posted by: Pearj
While I respect the medically educated opinions, unless you've had large doses of dilaudid yourselves it's not possible to speak for the person in question.

Having been given large doses intravenously and orally, in a hospital setting and at home (prescribed), it's not the same story..

It feels a lot like an immediate onset of the flu.. (best way I can think to describe it). It is however very effective at stopping heavy pain.

He would not have suffered.

It only appeared he suffered.

If it walks like a duck...

I've always been 100% aware of my surroundings and what was happening to me.. There is no "bliss". Just wanting to add the perspective of someone who's walked miles in those shoes.

I understand and respect your opinions, and understand you disagree with mine (so no need for any "back and forth").

Well, sure that is your experience, but you are not talking about mega-doses in your case either. As someone who ahs seen thousands of sedated and anesthetized people in and out of surgery, they snorting and snoring and gasping have nothing to do with cognitive awareness. It may look upsetting to the layman, but it is not an indication of suffering or even awareness.

personally I think it's by design, this new 'cocktail' may be meant to be a deterrent for those lacking a conscience...

ofcourse those who lack any conscience won't be deterred by this...

a reply to: Pearj

Navydoc already pointed out.

But opiates tend to have a large Therapeutic index normally around 70:1 which is why they are so useful. It means there's a big gap between the start of the minimum dose needed to give beneficial affects and the dose at its toxic level, which means you can adjust the affects to what you need, be it just pain relief or pain relief and sedative effects If you have been on it regularly your tolerance will go up too so you can take more.

What you were on was likely enough to take the pain away but not put you in a drug induced high/sedative state. Likely if your dose had been raised it would have.

When I was put on Morphine the doctors needed pain relief and for me to stop squirming about while they did scans so I was put on a higher dose of opiates relevant to what was needed for me, IE pain relief and sedation .

As such personal medical experiences will differ drastically. Keep in mind Alcohol therapeutic index is 10:1

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: Pearj

Navydoc already pointed out.

But opiates tend to have a large Therapeutic index normally around 70:1 which is why they are so useful. It means there's a big gap between the start of the minimum dose needed to give beneficial affects and the dose at its toxic level, which means you can adjust the affects to what you need, be it just pain relief or pain relief and sedative effects If you have been on it regularly your tolerance will go up too so you can take more.

What you were on was likely enough to take the pain away but not put you in a drug induced high/sedative state. Likely if your dose had been raised it would have.

When I was put on Morphine the doctors needed pain relief and for me to stop squirming about while they did scans so I was put on a higher dose of opiates relevant to what was needed for me, IE pain relief and sedation .

As such personal medical experiences will differ drastically. Keep in mind Alcohol therapeutic index is 10:1

True, true. As one prof of mine said concerning opiates, "titrate to apnea and then back off a little."

a reply to: loveguy
If you think the death penalty is a deterent..you would be just wrong.
To all you wanting to go back to the Roman Colosseum..I wish you could go back in time so you all could properly enjoy your executions.

a reply to: NavyDoc

I swear we had this discussion on another execution thread. I suggested a OD or Morphine and you said "all though painless people will moan at the chocking and vomiting" or something on those lines.

Guess you were right

originally posted by: NavyDoc
Well, sure that is your experience, but you are not talking about mega-doses in your case either. As someone who ahs seen thousands of sedated and anesthetized people in and out of surgery, they snorting and snoring and gasping have nothing to do with cognitive awareness. It may look upsetting to the layman, but it is not an indication of suffering or even awareness.

I am not talking about awareness during general anesthesia. So far as I'm aware, the prisoner was not put under with actual general anethesia prior to the lethal dose of dilaudid.

Without getting into the issues I faced, I am talking about awareness during mega-doses of diluadid.

10mg in a quick drip (constant / repeated), and 8mg oral (both in a hospital setting, not at the same time), 8mg oral at home. The typical prescribed dose is .5 to 1mg (6 to 8 hours apart).

To show I'm reading this post while taking the pics..


Closer in case of nay-sayers...






I think it's against federal law to put more than 10mg (liquid) in a bag. You can put more if it's the powder variety (250 I think) but it can't equate to more than 10mg liquid.

I can easily drive myself to the hospital on 8, sign myself in, etc.. In fact, that would be the only way I could get myself to the ER. Obviously aware. No I don't have a tolerance, I won't take it unless it's absolutely called for (years apart).

It makes you sick feeling (hard to explain), but takes away very bad pain. You aren't in "bliss" or "fairly land". The issue *shouldn't* return now, it's most likely fixed.

So yeah - drip or oral... We're talking about the same thing - awareness with "mega-high" doses of diluadid. Just stating awareness and clear thinking is there, and the prisoner most likely suffered (imo).

a reply to: Pearj

I think everyone has a different experience with pain meds.
I was on daluadid drip for a little over three months and I can tell you that I was tripping my ass off in the hospital. I've seen everything from laughing gnomes running around to doctors faces melting off.


How quick will someone die if they were injected with nothing but air?

Egads Ewok / Navydoc - I was still responding from the previous page, and just read your new replies. Looks like you folks *might not* accept a difference of opinion from someone who's been there - so I'll have to back out.

At any rate, thanks for your service Navydoc, I served too (AF).

Thank you for your input, have a good one guys.

--

Meant to add:

Maybe it's best to say the prisoner may or may not of suffered, or may or may not of been aware.

My point is that it's not worth the risk in the case of lethal injection - there are better, cheaper solutions that are more absolute in their effect and outcome.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow
a reply to: Kryties

Eh.. not being able to breath knocks the bliss out of any high.

He wouldn't even know.

You don't know that. Ever seen someone on heroin and benzos? They alternate between moments of unconscious high and snapback to lucidity. The dosage used on the prisoner THE FIRST TIME they did a painkiller/benzo botched execution was way too low to ensure death with a certainty. They executed a man with a dosage i've seen used for recreation.

a reply to: Pearj


Pain killers are putting a lot of unfortunate, but good people in prison, and now pain killers are taking a lot of very unfortunate bad people out of prison.

Isn't it crazy the epidemic caused by those things. What you take as medicine i friends (They are hooked, but they've been friends for 15 years, so.. you know) out on the street paying 20 bucks for one of those.

It's terrible prisons are using pain killers for executions in my opinion.

a reply to: GogoVicMorrow

I agree; and it's the basis of my point - pain killers are not reliable, efficient, cost effective nor predictable resolution for execution.

Star for you sir.. (how do you folks get so many stars.. lol)

I have a feeling the reason it was tried has to do with money... scratching the backs of those who can scratch back..

originally posted by: 3u40r15m
a reply to: MrWendal

That's true but if it's 100% they murdered innocent people they deserve the a horrible death. Just like child rapist. Why lock them up? Make them suffer!

But that's the problem.... it's not 100%.

I am in agreement with you, if it is 100% that a person committed murder or raped a child I think they should be put to death- but our system is not 100% and the more we are finding out the worse we are finding out it actually is. That is why I would not be so quick to say 'he should have suffered, he should have choked blah blah blah" just because the man was convicted.