To The Catholics of ATS

a reply to: JokerThe1st

So far some very nice answers and interesting points of view, please everyone don't let this turn into arguments. We are here to understand each other, Just let it go and move on.

originally posted by: JokerThe1st
i want to make clear non-Catholics are more than welcome to ask questions and comment. But yes generally i would like the Catholics to do the answering.

Sure, they can answer. But it doesn't answer your question. It would be good if they said 'I am not Catholic and I hate the Catholic church but here is my response even though it doesn't answer what you are looking for'. Otherwise, it'll just confuse you, the OP, and you'll think that it's a Catholic response when it isn't.

a reply to: JokerThe1st

They are very emotionally compassionate, so that overrides beliefs, like a Mormom saying that 'he is right, and you are wrong.' A Catholic doesn't contend, but it content. They are open to ideas, and do not have that stubborn point of view that they are right about every word of the bible and others are wrong.

Which in fact the truth is that people out there are wrong. That are looking to separate soul from body.

a reply to: DarknStormy

You failed to post the rest of the story ...
From your source

But bible academic Professor James Crossley, from the University of Sheffield, compared Mr Atwill's theory to a Dan Brown fiction book.

He told Mail Online: 'These types of theories are very common outside the academic world and are usually reserved for sensationalist literature.

'They are virtually non-existent in the academic world.' e also suggested the theories are not taken seriously by experts.

Perhaps it would be better for you to start your own thread on the subject. Then your story can be verified/debunked without derailing the OPS thread about asking Catholics what their church teaches and what they believe.

originally posted by: FlyersFan
a reply to: DarknStormy
Again ... you are welcome to believe that, but that's NOT what the OP was asking. He wanted to know what the Catholic perspective was. So once again, you have proven my point that your answers are NOT what the Catholic church believes.

You don't know what the Catholic Church believes.. I don't know what the Catholic Church believes, Either of us saying we do is stupid and we would be lying to ourselves... For all we know they control the world, established the Freemasons and are getting ready to invade Macedonia on the way to Fiji. I gave an opinion, it doesn't mean I'm right or wrong, I'm not trying to prove my point to anyone. It seems as though your mission is to prove your right all the time though.

Your favourite word WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG @ anyone who disagrees with you or doesn't meet your religious requirements and standards. Well I think your wrong believing a fairytale and then trying to justify that fairytale with fairytale nonsense from a fairytale book. It doesn't matter to me whether I prove your point or not because regardless of the facts that are provided about the Bible, you will still believe that lie and it's you that is Wrong when it comes down to it.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Sure, they can answer. But it doesn't answer your question. It would be good if they said 'I am not Catholic and I hate the Catholic church but here is my response even though it doesn't answer what you are looking for'. Otherwise, it'll just confuse you, the OP, and you'll think that it's a Catholic response when it isn't.

I agree it make's things difficult, I will ask everyone who want's to comment to please declare if you are Catholic or not at the start of your initial comments, just so there is no confusion.
I ask this in good faith and hope you can all oblige thank you

a reply to: DarknStormy

OK something similar happened in my other thread, this is not about who is right wrong or indifferent it is about Catholicism and was directed at the very people who make up that religion. why? because having an outside opinion is all very well but sometimes it is better to hear it from the horses mouth, you learn things whether or not you agree with them is beside the point. It is about gaining a perspective.

Please be respectful of there opinions on there own religion and faith.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Seriously, that article isn't as far fetched as Jesus being the creator of the Universe.... I'd actually believe that article before Jesus being God.

a reply to: Klassified

5. Christ's message was repent, or suffer the consequences. All that stuff about forgiveness and love is for after you get saved.

That is fundamental Christianity. Whereas Catholicism is more metaphoric, and if you read their theological library, alot of the chapters of the bible are admittedly stories, and alot of older books are newer than later books, and they tell you, its the theme to pay attention and have basic credo's we're to believe. Though NOT is often a good idea, because its deeper thinking and more mystical than fundamentalism but still not gnostic enough.

The basic message of Christ was, Love your neighbor as yourself, and who is your neighbor, those in need. The Catholic Church really emphasizes: doing good, works not just faith. The directives of James.

The most important aspect of Christ's message is to go seek, the Kingdom of Heaven is within, and to help others, Love.

Helping, Healing, Caring, Sharing, Walking in others footsteps. And teaching others to be kind. That is the gospels.

originally posted by: DarknStormy
You don't know what the Catholic Church believes.. I don't know what the Catholic Church believes, Either of us saying we do is stupid and we would be lying to ourselves...

Catechism of the Catholic church
Everything the Catholic church teaches and believes is available for anyone who wishes to read it. There are individuals within the church who have their own agendas and beliefs, but those are not the official Catholic church nor are they the church teachings.

The rest of your post was just off topic personal insult blah blah and I won't respond to it.

a reply to: JokerThe1st
It would be good to invite Adjensen to join the discussion. He/she is well versed in authentic Catholic doctrine. Maybe Adjensen will see this thread and hop on.

originally posted by: FlyersFan
i want to make clear non-Catholics are more than welcome to ask questions and comment. But yes generally i would like the Catholics to do the answering.

Sure, they can answer. But it doesn't answer your question. It would be good if they said 'I am not Catholic and I hate the Catholic church but here is my response even though it doesn't answer what you are looking for'. Otherwise, it'll just confuse you, the OP, and you'll think that it's a Catholic response when it isn't.

Yeah your right, I'm out.. I don't know why I waste my time with this.... Getting suckered into the fairytale business.

a reply to: Unity_99
Hi Unity,

Admittedly, I was having a little fun with the OP.

a reply to: FlyersFan

It would be good to invite Adjensen to join the discussion. He/she is well versed in authentic Catholic doctrine. Maybe Adjensen will see this thread and hop on.

Just ran across it, but I think that you answered his questions spot on!

OP, asking a non-Catholic about Catholic doctrine is a bit like asking a Tea Partier about President Obama's virtues, lol. Case in point -- old DnS doesn't even know that a Catholic who joins the Freemasons is automatically excommunicated, making the claim that the Freemasons are a Vatican organization laughable.

To give you some food for thought, let me tell you about my Catholic morning, and how it differed from a typical Protestant morning (I was a Methodist until 2012.)

After waking, getting ready and taking Oscar the dog for a walk, I sat down in my sitting room and read my morning Methodist devotional (old habit die hard, lol,) followed by a personal prayer. After that, I read my Catholic devotional and then did the Morning Prayer from the Liturgy of the Hours, something all "professional" Catholics, from the Pope on down, are required to pray every day, and laity, such as myself are encouraged to, as well. Nothing like that in the Methodist church, but it ensures that someone in the Catholic church is praying, 24/7.

Then I went to daily Mass at the local church -- how many Protestant churches offer services every day of the year? I went today, because the Mass intention (the person whom the Mass honors and is intended for) was for my wife, who passed away in 2010. During Mass, I experienced the miracle of Consecration and received the real body and blood of Christ, something no Protestant, apart from Lutherans and some High Anglicans, can receive, even though Christ himself taught that you needed his real body and blood for salvation and the real presence in the Eucharist has been taught since the time of the Apostles.

After that, I drove to a nearby town to lay flowers on my wife's grave. While there, I prayed for her, and I asked her to pray for me, because as a Catholic, I don't believe in "soul sleep" -- the dearly departed are aware of Earthly things, and continue to care for and about us. Then I drove back to the church and spent an hour in Eucharistic Adoration, an hour with Jesus in his church. As always, I spent the first 1/2 hour reading the Bible (working my way through the Old Testament, front to back, I just started Joshua today,) lit a candle and said another prayer for my wife, and the second 1/2 hour, I read a book on Our Lady of Guadalupe, a subject that I've been studying for months -- I'm personally convinced that it is a true miracle and apparition of Mary, something a Protestant will never understand, even though the appearance was responsible for ending human sacrifice in Central America and led to the voluntary conversion of 9-10 million Aztecs to Catholicism over the span of just ten years.

Anyhoo, that's not a typical morning, though a fair bit of it is. When I was a Methodist, I'd read the devotional, say the personal prayer and that was it. But things like praying the Liturgy of the Hours, going to Adoration and learning of things like Our Lady of Guadalupe have really enriched my spiritual life… I'd never go back.

A 'Saint' is someone who is in Heaven. Miracles that are obtained through the intercession of a saint is considered proof that the person is in heaven. The person on earth asks the person in heaven to ask God for a miracle. If the person wasn't in heaven, then they couldn't ask God for the miracle. Therefore, that's considered proof.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Who is to say they were miracles? If my memory serves me right, John Paul is being considered for saint hood. I don't recall any "miracles" he was directly involved in.

Wrong. Do you ask others to pray to God for you? It's the same thing. Catholics ask the saints to pray to God for them. No different.

Pray directly to God not going through another person. That's totally different. Now God has "sales people." If he can create the universe and everything in it, he doesn't need other people to help him. lol

The Catholic church has no 'who's who in Hell' list.

They certainly believe in purgatory.

originally posted by: WeRpeons
Who is to say they were miracles?

The Vaticans investigative process determines if it's a miracle or not. It's exceptionally difficult to have a cure declared a miracle. Intensive record keeping and doctors statements etc etc are investigated. Almost all claims of miracles are dismissed. It's only the cures that can't be explained away by modern science/medicine that are declared miracles.

Pray directly to God not going through another person.

Sure. But we are also all told to pray for each other. And Jesus prayed for others as well. Do you ask others to pray for you? Do you pray for others in Church? Same thing, except that when Catholics ask the saints to pray to God for them, the Saints are in Heaven and their prayers to God aren't bogged down with human baggage.

They certainly believe in purgatory.

Purgatory and Hell are two different things.
And they don't declare who is there either.

As for Pope John Paul II ... there are indeed two validated miracles attributed to his intercession before God in Heaven. ABC News . One miracle was a woman cured of Parkinsons and the second miracle was a cure of an incurable brain aneurysm.

One miracle and the church declares the person 'blessed'.
Two miracles and the church declares the person 'saint'.
And the miracles must happen after the persons death to be part of the process.

a reply to: WeRpeons

Who is to say they were miracles?

The church has an investigatory arm that looks at supposed miracles and declares them valid or invalid. They usually err on the side of caution and declare most things that get reported as being unsubstantiated.

John Paul is being considered for saint hood. I don't recall any "miracles" he was directly involved in.

He was canonized earlier this year. Here's a miracle that is attributed to his intercession: The miracle that earned John Paul II his sainthood

Pray directly to God not going through another person.

We do pray directly to God -- as I noted in my "Catholic morning" routine, I pray directly to God a half dozen times a day. But I also do a couple of "Hail Mary"s and ask my wife to pray for me, just as I asked her to when she was still alive, and what's the harm in either one of those?

They certainly believe in purgatory.

What does that have to do with anything?

Purgatory isn't hell, and it's not even a Christian-begun tradition -- Jews in the time of Christ believed in purgatory, and that tradition carried forward into the Christian church. Jesus never taught against it, Paul taught in favour of it, so it seems like the idea has some validity.

This is what the Roman Catholic Church is preaching to their followers.

Some “think they can have a personal, direct, immediate relationship with Jesus Christ outside of the communion and the mediation of the Church. Such temptations are dangerous and harmful. They are, in the words of the great Pope Paul VI, absurd dichotomies.”- Pope Francis.

So without the Heresy, you should not have a relationship with Jesus.

In comments likely to enhance his progressive reputation, Pope Francis has written a long, open letter to the founder of La Repubblica newspaper, Eugenio Scalfari, stating that non-believers would be forgiven by God if they followed their consciences.

Atheists are going to be forgiven by God? Something they don't believe Exists? Isn't denying God the greatest of all the Sins?

Any of the above in your Catholic values???

As for the Freemason thing

No surprise either, as both the Scottish Rite Supreme Council 33° of the Gran Loggia d’Italia (GLDI, founded in 1910 after a schism with the Grande Oriente d’Italia) & the Church of the Gesù – the mother church of the Jesuits – are located in Piazza del Gesù! In fact the GLDI is known as the Piazza del Gesù obedience. This body is recognised by the Scottish Rite’s US Southern Jurisdiction (“Mother of the World”) Supreme Council 33° in Washington, DC. The Jesuits control both the Roman Catholic Church & many elements within high-level Freemasonry on both sides of the Atlantic.

The Grande Oriente Italiano obedience (founded 1975, not to be confused with the Grande Oriente d’Italia) is also to be found at Piazza del Gesù, as is the Scottish Rite Supreme Council 33° of the Gran Loggia Nazionale Italiana (founded 1979).

Just research the history of the Jesuits and their operations.... This is the head of your beloved Religion regardless of your values and expectations at the lower tiers. I'm glad I don't know anything about Catholicism like you people do, I don't want to be associated with it.

originally posted by: DarknStormy
I don't know why I waste my time with this.... Getting suckered into the fairytale business.

And yet you believe the fiction of Islam. Go figure.

This is what the Roman Catholic Church is preaching to their followers. ... you should not have a relationship with Jesus.

Wrong. That's incomplete and taken out of context. Here is the rest of what he said during that statement.

Catholic Register - Pope Says Church is a Family That Welcomes and Teaches Us

Observing how our relationship with God “is personal but not private,” he stated that our journey of faith “is born of and enriched by the communion of the Church.”

“Whoever says they believe in God but not in the Church, has a direct relation with Christ outside of her, falls into an absurd dichotomy,” he noted, stating that “God has confided his saving message to human persons, to witnesses, and it is known to us through our brothers and sisters.”

However, to walk our path in the Church is not always easy, because “at times we encounter human weakness, limitations and even scandal in the life of the Church,” the Holy Father said.

But even so, “God has called us to know him and to love him precisely by loving our brothers and sisters, by persevering in the fellowship of the Church and by seeking in all things to grow in faith and holiness as members of the one body of Christ.”
Concluding his address, Pope Francis encouraged those present to keep in mind that, “as Christians, we cannot disregard the other, the Church; we cannot save ourselves on our own.”

He said that a personal relationship with Christ comes through the Church. That if you have a personal relationship with Christ, it's because it was brought to you by the Church. That the Church takes care of that relationship and helps it grow. He was stating that, without the church, it can wither away.

As for the Freemason thing ...

Automatic excommunication for being a Freemason. If individuals are sneaking around being Freemasons, that's on them. The Church itself declares automatic excommunication. That's the law on the books.

originally posted by: DarknStormy
I'm glad I don't know anything about Catholicism like you people do, I don't want to be associated with it.

... and yet here you are, a muslim leaning anti-Catholic on a thread that is asking Catholics questions about the Catholic faith. At least you just admitted that you don't know anything about Catholicism. That's the first accurate thing you've said on this thread.