"Can God create a rock..."

Wow, I bet you never heard this one before, right? Of course you have: “If God is omnipotent, then can he create a rock that is so heavy that he can't lift it?” Now I am not seeking answers to this conundrum; I simply want to talk about the question itself. This classical paradox is a great example of the formidable shortcomings of human analytical thought. This stumbling block reveals our still primative nature. I fancy that many advanced Alien cultures would be amused by our naivete.
A simple, clear fact, is that we are still stumbling in the dark. Our hubris has advanced as far as our intellect has over the ages, and we seem to think that we are just outside the gates of omniscience. But let me tell you: We are still firmly planted in the realm of the
primal, savage, “lesser” animals from wence we came.
This leads me back to the dilemma of the heavy rock. In the context of the spiritual vs. the secular world, we would be wise to acknowledge that ignorance is simply a blank slate. The truth that awaits us is far, far greater than the truth that we now perceive.

what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object?

originally posted by: TzarChasm
what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object?

They become static stars

a reply to: Diderot

“If God is omnipotent, then can he create a rock that is so heavy that he can't lift it?”

" 'god' does not simply walk into mordor."

What happens when you put a mind capable of reasoning inside a brain that already has a mind that doesn't,

TA Daaaaaaa, you get human conflict and the belief and worship of sky fairies and unknowable gods that give pain to woman during childbirth for daring to question and have knowledge.....

The rock of reason has become a pain in their omnipotent gods boot. Limp much?

Man can create a rock that he cannot lift, god is not needed for that. Now this fits into all parts of the OP if you look deep enough into it.

a reply to: Diderot

Ok...lets play. If God can make it SO heavy He/She/They/It/Them cant LIFT the rock? Then He could blow, wave, shove or "blink" it away.

originally posted by: Diderot
Wow, I bet you never heard this one before, right? Of course you have: “If God is omnipotent, then can he create a rock that is so heavy that he can't lift it?” Now I am not seeking answers to this conundrum; I simply want to talk about the question itself. This classical paradox is a great example of the formidable shortcomings of human analytical thought. This stumbling block reveals our still primative nature. I fancy that many advanced Alien cultures would be amused by our naivete.
A simple, clear fact, is that we are still stumbling in the dark. Our hubris has advanced as far as our intellect has over the ages, and we seem to think that we are just outside the gates of omniscience. But let me tell you: We are still firmly planted in the realm of the
primal, savage, “lesser” animals from wence we came.
This leads me back to the dilemma of the heavy rock. In the context of the spiritual vs. the secular world, we would be wise to acknowledge that ignorance is simply a blank slate. The truth that awaits us is far, far greater than the truth that we now perceive.

The only limitations God has are those which he himself decrees. well that's close to the truth as is humanly possible.
in addition to omnipotence god has other qualities. He is absolute Good, absolute perfection and absolute Justice. this leads to a "problem" for God and for us.

God created us with free will which means we are not perfect. we are not absolutely good. he created us in this fashion because he needed us to have free will in order to be able to truly love him as he desired. of course he knew this would lead to trouble. he could have made us incapable of making unacceptable decisions. but chose not to because it would render true love and conscious obedience impossible.

so how does God solve this paradox? He sets up a legally binding covenant which protects us from his wrath. He gave us the commandments and the rest of the Torah (the letter of which is lethal to all of us because we cannot obey it perfectly.)but this sets up rules by which God agrees to spare us for our sins through a system of sacrifice in which blood is shed for the remissions of sins. also a sacrifice has to be without blemish to be permanently effective. the law gets more intricate: if someone is killed for a sin they did not commit someone else cannot be killed for that sin.

this set of rules is legally binding on God; not just men. God limits himself by choice.

so along comes this guy; Jeshua (who is Emmanuel, which means God with us.) he gets framed for capital offenses and slain. only he is without blemish as he fulfilled the law perfectly. The old Covenant is fulfilled so now God can (must) compel himself to suffer our imperfection if he is perfect Justice and perfect truth so forth and so on.

in brief... God can elect to place limitations on himself when it suits Him. but for something trivial like the rock thing (which he most probably wouldn't lower himself to do) if he chose to he could most likely abrogate the restriction at will.

One could argue that his absolute traits and properties are a limitation. he had to go to a lot of bother to have children that were trouble and still not feel compelled to squish them when they are so imperfect and disobedient. OTOH it ultimately did not limit him. it just caused Him to create and implement a solution that satisfied his own standards of justice. and no this conundrum did not catch him unawares. he knew the issues when he did it and already had a plan to solve it before the ink on the blueprints for the universe was even dry.

a reply to: Diderot

It is a nonsensical question, something like "If God can do anything, can he make a square circle?"

Though this guy thinks that he has an answer:

So, can God make a rock so heavy even he can't lift it?

Yes. And he did. For three days only. And then he drop kicked it out of the mouth of the tomb. (Source)

a reply to: stormbringer1701
Dear Bringer of the Storm, Your post is quite illuminating, but I can't quite grasp the essence. That is probably my fault. We are different creatures who see reality through a different lens. The key is that we see that we are two sides to the same coin.

a reply to: adjensen
Dear adjensen, My main point was not to focus of the question itself. This tends to reveal a fundamental ignorance of human thought in 2014. Now I don't mean to imply that you, adjensen, are less wiser than myself, but you and I are both
primitive in our wisdom. Let's both acknowledge our ignorance, and embrace the wisdom that is ours to conquer. We have come so far, but we have so much more to achieve.

a reply to: mysterioustranger
Dear stranger of unfathomable mystery, My question is more perplexing than your answer. Is homo sapiens sapiens, in 2014, wise enough to call himself "King of the Beasts"? I submit that we really are not much farther advanced than the typical tribe of Bonobo monkeys. The point is that we are still primitive, feral beasts. This is not a point of pessimism; it's just that we have so much farther to evolve/advance.

a reply to: Diderot

Sorry. I saw this:

I simply want to talk about the question itself.

in your OP and figured that you wanted to talk about the question itself. Which, as I said, is an irrational one -- anyone who thinks that it "proves" something about anything has a shallow grasp of theology (not saying that you do, of course.)

a reply to: taoistguy
Dear Lao Tse,

" 'god' does not simply walk into mordor."

If you perhaps say that God does not walk, then I agree.

Mordor, however, does not escape the reach of God.

Perhaps we should consult J.R.R. Tolkien!

a reply to: ColeYounger
Dear Cole Junior, I don't exactly see you point. Perhaps it's the issue about the windmill in you beard.
Who in their right mind cannot clearly see that there is a windmill in you beard?

a reply to: Spacespider

"what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object?"

Maybe we can call that a singularity. Or not.

a reply to: Diderot

Oh, I agree the issue is intriguing. Im guessing in essence, the answer would be YES. I think God COULD make a rock so heavy He could not lift it if he so ordered. Since, He would be the creator, and the creator has the leeway to create as He wishes...then Im sure He could do at least 3 minimum things in the process...At least. I think for the most part...some posters would agree with me here.

1. Create the Rock
2. Making it so heavy for himself, he intentionally makes it so he is UNABLE to lift it...or move it for that matter...because as God He created it that way for himself.
And 3rd...CHANGE that... whenever desired to... into becoming effortless to lift, blow away, fly through the air...or melt for that matter.

So...in a hypothetical nutshell...I'd bet on God being able to create, utilize, move and destroy said object on the singular premise that...He/She/They/Them/It.... IS God.

Thanks for playing....MS

a reply to: mysterioustranger
Dear Mr. Mystery, Okay, since we are answering the question, I have to bring up the question of the paradox. (I once had a medical procedure by a paradox, and I won't do that again!) Anyway, if God can create a rock that is so heavy that he cannot lift it, then that means that he is not omnipotent! Ya get it? There is something that he cannot do.

a reply to: Diderot

Yes...but as the creator of said rock...he CREATED it that way...and of course could change it any second...(I think)