How rebel mourning MH17 victims was turned into looter with trophy

rt.com...

This is a great example of how Twitter posts and western reactions to photos can be turned into "proof" of whatever we want it to be, until we actually check what *really* happened. This makes me tear up a little bit. God bless that child who owned this toy, and the rebel who honored them, in whatever small way. Let's make sure no more babies are killed, for ANY reason, ever.

Twitter is quick, but too quick sometimes – recently it burst with photos of an evil Ukrainian militiaman who took a teddy bear from the victim of Malaysia plane crash as a trophy. But the full video shows he was just paying the tribute to the dead.

Skip to 1:00 for the shot

That's sad; that the man's sense of humanity is being spun into an agenda.

Social media is a good tool for marketing but you can tell no one thinks before they retweet.

I saw this yesterday. Too bad I can't get on Russia Today now.

See my thread above yours. RT.com is down here. (Western Europe).

soulwaxer

originally posted by: soulwaxer
I saw this yesterday. Too bad I can't get on Russia Today now.

See my thread above yours. RT.com is down here. (Western Europe).

soulwaxer

I raise my eyebrow to that (RT being down just in western Europe). Weird.

(I only see RT's Facebook posts, don't read the site much. I subscribe to too many news feeds, lol)

While it may be sad that they spun it that way, the guy is obviously posing for pictures for propaganda of their own in front a a few photogs and cameramen. Either way you look at it, both sides are spinning it to suit their needs.

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
While it may be sad that they spun it that way, the guy is obviously posing for pictures for propaganda of their own in front a a few photogs and cameramen. Either way you look at it, both sides are spinning it to suit their needs.

Sorry, but maybe this guy is a Dad. Maybe he has babies of his own at home and he felt the need to show the world the humanity of this tragedy. Claiming it's just "propaganda" is sick because he DOESN'T CLAIM WHO IS AT FAULT. He just says "this is who you b@stards shot down." Maybe you're not a parent, but I am, and that's EXACTLY what I would have done: highlight the fact that this is REAL, this tragedy had casualties beyond adults you can just brush off as "whatever." It was BABIES and this guy seems to get that. Do you? Do you think he knows his leaders did it, and is playing at being respectful? That's shameful. Accuse every single other mourner of that as well, then. EITHER side. Any of us can use this as propaganda. Shameful. Just shameful to suggest.

originally posted by: 00nunya00

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
While it may be sad that they spun it that way, the guy is obviously posing for pictures for propaganda of their own in front a a few photogs and cameramen. Either way you look at it, both sides are spinning it to suit their needs.

Sorry, but maybe this guy is a Dad. Maybe he has babies of his own at home and he felt the need to show the world the humanity of this tragedy. Claiming it's just "propaganda" is sick because he DOESN'T CLAIM WHO IS AT FAULT. He just says "this is who you b@stards shot down." Maybe you're not a parent, but I am, and that's EXACTLY what I would have done: highlight the fact that this is REAL, this tragedy had casualties beyond adults you can just brush off as "whatever." It was BABIES and this guy seems to get that. Do you? Do you think he knows his leaders did it, and is playing at being respectful? That's shameful. Accuse every single other mourner of that as well, then. EITHER side. Any of us can use this as propaganda. Shameful. Just shameful to suggest.

Yes I have 3 kids and no, if something like this happened I would not be grabbing a toy and posing for the money shot with the photogs on hand. That is using the tragedy to your advantage. He was holding up a kids stuffed animal and turning with it to each camera making sure they got the shot then after they did he laid it down. I would say that is a pretty direct attempt at some propaganda shots there. Mourners who actually care about the situation don't typically pose for pics. If your neighbors kids died in a car accident in front of your house would you step outside, pick up a piece of something in the car and pose for the news cameras when they arrived?

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: 00nunya00

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
While it may be sad that they spun it that way, the guy is obviously posing for pictures for propaganda of their own in front a a few photogs and cameramen. Either way you look at it, both sides are spinning it to suit their needs.

Sorry, but maybe this guy is a Dad. Maybe he has babies of his own at home and he felt the need to show the world the humanity of this tragedy. Claiming it's just "propaganda" is sick because he DOESN'T CLAIM WHO IS AT FAULT. He just says "this is who you b@stards shot down." Maybe you're not a parent, but I am, and that's EXACTLY what I would have done: highlight the fact that this is REAL, this tragedy had casualties beyond adults you can just brush off as "whatever." It was BABIES and this guy seems to get that. Do you? Do you think he knows his leaders did it, and is playing at being respectful? That's shameful. Accuse every single other mourner of that as well, then. EITHER side. Any of us can use this as propaganda. Shameful. Just shameful to suggest.

Yes I have 3 kids and no, if something like this happened I would not be grabbing a toy and posing for the money shot with the photogs on hand. That is using the tragedy to your advantage. He was holding up a kids stuffed animal and turning with it to each camera making sure they got the shot then after they did he laid it down. I would say that is a pretty direct attempt at some propaganda shots there. Mourners who actually care about the situation don't typically pose for pics. If your neighbors kids died in a car accident in front of your house would you step outside, pick up a piece of something in the car and pose for the news cameras when they arrived?

If I was one of the people responsible for showing a bunch of MONEY-GRUBBING reporters who are there to take shots of THE TRUTH for paychecks the carnage they're clamoring for, and I'm in some BFE-nowhere place where I have one chance in my whole tour of duty to make a difference? You can bet your butt I would. Because I would be (and am, even as a non-related foreigner) so mad at the fact that ANYONE (rebels, Russians, Ukrainians, I have no clue who did this) would take the lives of BABIES. Man, that's a jaded worldview you're presenting right there. NO ONE is anything but a narcissistic self-serving a-hole, then, in your view, even you. Sorry, but I see a man paying respect. That's more than Ukraine has done in any significant way. All they've done is war-dance on the tragedy. Where are the huge memorials and donations from Ukraine? Where are the citizens sending donations to the Dutch to help them with their travel expenses to visit the site and mourn their families, and burials? None? Then I guess they're responsible because they don't mourn the way you do. My God. Judge, shoot, then find out the truth, eh?

Anyone who has followed media through the decades knows that initial reports of looting (and related phenomena) are often incorrect or exaggerated.

This isn't to say looting never occurs. It does. But because it's misreported so often, it's a specific area where skepticism is warranted.

This can be a problem even among people who have an interest in deconstructing media. Too many of these people are new to this world. And don't know areas that have a history of inaccuracy.

double post

Its a shame that showing compassion and humanity gets twisted and turned into propaganda ..

Then people wonder why I cant stand the cesspool they call civilisation ..

Not surprised by the man paying respects to the dead .. often done same over the years .. good to at least see theres still some that are capable of showing compassion ..

I can't translate all of this because my Russian is not that great but what I did get out of that...other than the sad shot, which is truly heartbreaking whether it was posed for propaganda or not (I lean towards not because I know Russian and Ukrainian people and they are very passionate and caring people when it comes to children, no matter what the worlds view of them might be otherwise, I know this for fact), is that he said this is provocation from Washington and that this plane was shot down by a fighter jet from the Ukrainian Air Force (we've heard reports of 2 jets following this flight). He also said something about the plane wreckage having too many bullett holes in it to have been hit by a missile. Haven't seen the proof of this yet but will be interesting to hear the reports from the experts.

I wish I could translate more but I'd have to watch this 100 times and I can't do that....

There's a limit to which people can be fooled, even with high tech and lack of a language bridge.
Rest assured, I never for a moment thought this guy was a looter, from the photos, simply because his entie nonverbal behavior suggested something else. A certain amount of respect and condolence.

However, having seen him on video I think he was not terribly shaken personally either. Even if Russian men don't cry much, he would have covered his face or something.
He was somewhat moved.
Easter European history is full of horrors that someone says we should put up with because this or that nation or ideology is true and great. The learned insensivity of Soviet times I saw...

Back to this fighter... I think his beliefs were - somewhat challenged by what he saw, but he was trying to hold onto his (empty) belief that his compatriots are true and justified. And that the evil Ukrainians (a.k.a. the "fascists") were responsible for all this.

As the days pass he might drink more and pray more though. Because it is turning out crystal clear that no, the Ukrainians didn't do it. His own folks did.

(Cognitive dissonance is bridged frequently in this part of the world by the efficient pairing of alcohol and a medieval style of religiosity.)

a reply to: Vasa Croe

Right so first this guy is being smeared as being a looter with no respect for the victims of this tragedy, then it comes out he wasn´t at all, and you still find something bad to say.

There are lots of cameramen there filming every action, does that mean that every action is intended as propaganda?

Goddam people, will jump on any emotional band wagon that suits their whims....I feel to puke.....

a reply to: 00nunya00

Thank you for this thread, it show's the power of propeganda and how we can all be manipulated into the lynch mob mentality and why to know the truth we have to see the whole truth.
It seemed odd that men who could be killed anytime and are fighting for there belief's and family's would stoop so low but I must confess I was taken in by the looting statement and for a few moment's lost any sympathy I may have had for either side, I now thank's to you know that I was wrong.

originally posted by: ScrutonEyez
a reply to: Vasa Croe

Right so first this guy is being smeared as being a looter with no respect for the victims of this tragedy, then it comes out he wasn´t at all, and you still find something bad to say.

There are lots of cameramen there filming every action, does that mean that every action is intended as propaganda?

I never said he was a looter. Anyone that thinks this guy was a looter is a complete idiot....a soldier looting a toy animal? Seriously?

I said he was posing for the cameras. He stood there and held the stuffed animal up and turned and even shook the animal a bit for each camera person to get their shots in, placed the stuffy on the pile and walks away giving interviews. That screams propaganda opp to me. He is quite obviously in a position of authority from the video which would suggest he took orders from above to pass on to his team and was the "face" of the recovery effort. So yes, this screams propaganda to me....this scene was politically and media motivated and was set up for that. Did you see him pick up any other dolls in the scene and do the same....no....it was just this one and just for the cameras on hand then he walked away giving interviews, probably under orders from his command.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

I never said he was a looter.

Never said you did.

I never said he was a looter. Anyone that thinks this guy was a looter is a complete idiot....a soldier looting a toy animal? Seriously?

Agreed.

I said he was posing for the cameras. He stood there and held the stuffed animal up and turned and even shook the animal a bit for each camera person to get their shots in

Could it be the other way around, that photographers mobbed him holding the toy wanting a nice pic, and that he indulged?

originally posted by: 00nunya00

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: 00nunya00

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
While it may be sad that they spun it that way, the guy is obviously posing for pictures for propaganda of their own in front a a few photogs and cameramen. Either way you look at it, both sides are spinning it to suit their needs.

Sorry, but maybe this guy is a Dad. Maybe he has babies of his own at home and he felt the need to show the world the humanity of this tragedy. Claiming it's just "propaganda" is sick because he DOESN'T CLAIM WHO IS AT FAULT. He just says "this is who you b@stards shot down." Maybe you're not a parent, but I am, and that's EXACTLY what I would have done: highlight the fact that this is REAL, this tragedy had casualties beyond adults you can just brush off as "whatever." It was BABIES and this guy seems to get that. Do you? Do you think he knows his leaders did it, and is playing at being respectful? That's shameful. Accuse every single other mourner of that as well, then. EITHER side. Any of us can use this as propaganda. Shameful. Just shameful to suggest.

Yes I have 3 kids and no, if something like this happened I would not be grabbing a toy and posing for the money shot with the photogs on hand. That is using the tragedy to your advantage. He was holding up a kids stuffed animal and turning with it to each camera making sure they got the shot then after they did he laid it down. I would say that is a pretty direct attempt at some propaganda shots there. Mourners who actually care about the situation don't typically pose for pics. If your neighbors kids died in a car accident in front of your house would you step outside, pick up a piece of something in the car and pose for the news cameras when they arrived?

If I was one of the people responsible for showing a bunch of MONEY-GRUBBING reporters who are there to take shots of THE TRUTH for paychecks the carnage they're clamoring for, and I'm in some BFE-nowhere place where I have one chance in my whole tour of duty to make a difference? You can bet your butt I would. Because I would be (and am, even as a non-related foreigner) so mad at the fact that ANYONE (rebels, Russians, Ukrainians, I have no clue who did this) would take the lives of BABIES. Man, that's a jaded worldview you're presenting right there. NO ONE is anything but a narcissistic self-serving a-hole, then, in your view, even you. Sorry, but I see a man paying respect. That's more than Ukraine has done in any significant way. All they've done is war-dance on the tragedy. Where are the huge memorials and donations from Ukraine? Where are the citizens sending donations to the Dutch to help them with their travel expenses to visit the site and mourn their families, and burials? None? Then I guess they're responsible because they don't mourn the way you do. My God. Judge, shoot, then find out the truth, eh?

So your line of thinking is that this guy just decided to speak for his people? He is a soldier and that doesn't happen without orders from above allowing him to speak to media unless he IS the top of the chain. I never believed the looting thing to begin with....what a retarded line of thinking.....a soldier looting a stuffed animal.

I firmly believe this is propaganda at its best. He posed for the cameras, set the toy down, and walked away giving interviews to all the reporters. He has clearly been in front of a camera or multiples before and is in command of whatever unit he had on hand but probably took the order from above him to give a media report. I don't care if others said he was a looter....I am saying I think this was an order given from above him to make his military look good. You don't speak out of turn in the military in any system.....if you do, there are very heavy consequences and you could cause more international heat to come down if you say the wrong thing. This was planned and he is very comfortable in front of the camera.

originally posted by: ScrutonEyez
a reply to: Vasa Croe

I never said he was a looter.

Never said you did.

I never said he was a looter. Anyone that thinks this guy was a looter is a complete idiot....a soldier looting a toy animal? Seriously?

Agreed.

I said he was posing for the cameras. He stood there and held the stuffed animal up and turned and even shook the animal a bit for each camera person to get their shots in

Could it be the other way around, that photographers mobbed him holding the toy wanting a nice pic, and that he indulged?

I don't think so from what I see. It looks like a very controlled environment with the military units not letting the reporters go anywhere without escort. This was a planned photo opp. Watch from the beginning. The soldiers are checking the media teams and keeping a line on the street and units at each end where the reporters are parked. They then are allowed to approach and ask questions. He stands there with reporters already crouched and in position to take the pics, does his pose and turns for each of them to make sure they get a face on shot of the toy then places it down. Media opp all the way here.

It even says in the article that this was a planned media event.

What really happened?
In reality, the photo was taken during a visit of 30 OSCE international observers who arrived at the scene of the crashed plane to investigate the area. Among the OSCE group were the members of self-defense forces in Donetsk region who accompanied them.