Vladimir Putin Breaks Silence on MH17 crash

a reply to: Shana91aus

I saw over the weekend that somebody went got the original of that tape and found 3 distinct edit points in it. The OP said that the tape includes sections of conversations that go back and forwards from the future to the present and from the past into the present. The tape could have been edited so suit a propaganda purpose.

Now who would do that and why.

If this whole sad event disappears off the media fairly quickly you can be assured that it has been milked for its propaganda value and who would you think would have gained from that, Putin?

a reply to: Shana91aus

Putin would be more believable had he and his administration not immediately pointed the finger at Ukraine. his offer of cooperation is meaningless when the pro russian rebels continue to do what they are doing.

a reply to: Shana91aus

The Dutch papers have elected not to publish the truly horrendous picture of a dead baby lying alone in the wreckage field that was released by Ukrainian authorities.

Perhaps they should be posting things as this, just so the people who seem to think this is a joke can truly grasp the horror of the situation. I really cannot stand to even follow events anymore, it makes my blood boil and me sick. This was an avoidable tragedy and the responsible parties need to pay..... Now.

a reply to: Shana91aus

The point is, if reporters from NBC, Sky, BBC and others can find their way to the crash site, examine evidence, take images and video of debris and bodies, interview locals in the area in complete safety....why can't the international inspectors, who repeatedly claim they cannot get access to the site?

They are not even trying to get to the site, obviously because they have been told to hold back by those with dark political motives designed to make it look as though they are being prevented from going there, when all the while they could simply get in a car, chopper or even an APC if they wanted to, and go there!

But...as American politicians state openly...why let a good tragedy go to waste, or better still a good frame up job.

originally posted by: jaynkeel
a reply to: Shana91aus

The Dutch papers have elected not to publish the truly horrendous picture of a dead baby lying alone in the wreckage field that was released by Ukrainian authorities.

Perhaps they should be posting things as this, just so the people who seem to think this is a joke can truly grasp the horror of the situation. I really cannot stand to even follow events anymore, it makes my blood boil and me sick. This was an avoidable tragedy and the responsible parties need to pay..... Now.

That thought crossed my mind aswell but then i thought nope then the poor little baby will be exploited even more because they will probably make more theories up about the picture its a never ending cycle, i think its people being in denial this is a highly stressfull situation, even i get worked up and trully saddened, and sick reading about it and i don't know anyone who was on board, it would be taking its toll on people maybe thats how some people deal with it? Either way im with you who ever was responsible needs to pay but its working through all this progaganda and getting to the bottom of exactly WHO is responsible that is the hard part.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
so he waited for the "evidence" to be dissapeared and comes out with this....interesting....

good catch... Putin allowed chaos & anarchy to run the crash site investigation.... instead of a decent Crime Scene Investigation headed by the International Civil Aviation Authority...the site is like a carnival melee with tourists or reporters disturbing all the evidence in a willy-nilly fashion

on the radio news today... the newscast team (WRNN local talk station) told us that the Wikipedia page about flight 17 was changed by Russia no less.... they changed the jet takedown from being done by 'terrorists' to being taken down by 'Ukraine'~~that happened over the weekend~~

I think that Putin is going back to his KGB era training.... he's got the black boxes,. the crash sites are a investigation nightmare, etc. ~he must feel secure enough to either cover up evidence or to skew the evidence enough to escape being charged with the crime

originally posted by: Shana91aus

originally posted by: PhoenixOD
a reply to: Shana91aus

He is offering full co operation to other world leaders, which to me says alot!

Well whats your interpretation of this statement then?

Sorry..i was in a huge rush but saw on the headlines it was from an hour ago and still wasnt put on here yet (used the search) and checked theough.. My interpretation is that although from only minutes after the crash everyone was blaming Russia & Putin himself, and despite that and all the absolute trash talking everyone has done he has stood up and been the bigger person and said he will co operate with allowing them access to the site, if he was the big bad wolf he is made out to be i doubt he would do that, on the other hand it is a little late now espeially consideing anything incriminating could have been removed by now but i myself am pro Russia so i tend to see the good he is trying to do also.

My dear friend, Russia cannot provide access to an area in Ukraine. It is the job of the Ukraine government.

I hope there is a government in Ukraine.

You are also falling for Western propaganda.

It was always the job of The Ukraine government to secure the site, which of course they did not perform.

The game is so obvious it is laughable.

Does Ukraine needs Russia's permission in its own territory? Laughable.

I saw on the news theyre putting all the bodies on to a train now, i really hope the right thing is done and them bodies are taken to be formally identified and returned to families for a proper send off.. It would be likw pouring salt in to the wounds of the loved members , they have too see all this on the news tey have to see all this footage of the bodies being carried away and they dont even know where their loved ones are going at this point! Something needs to be done.

a reply to: St Udio

i am glad i am not the only one to pick up on that...we live in interesting times indeed

originally posted by: GargIndia

originally posted by: Shana91aus

originally posted by: PhoenixOD
a reply to: Shana91aus

He is offering full co operation to other world leaders, which to me says alot!

Well whats your interpretation of this statement then?

Sorry..i was in a huge rush but saw on the headlines it was from an hour ago and still wasnt put on here yet (used the search) and checked theough.. My interpretation is that although from only minutes after the crash everyone was blaming Russia & Putin himself, and despite that and all the absolute trash talking everyone has done he has stood up and been the bigger person and said he will co operate with allowing them access to the site, if he was the big bad wolf he is made out to be i doubt he would do that, on the other hand it is a little late now espeially consideing anything incriminating could have been removed by now but i myself am pro Russia so i tend to see the good he is trying to do also.

My dear friend, Russia cannot provide access to an area in Ukraine. It is the job of the Ukraine government.

I hope there is a government in Ukraine.

You are also falling for Western propaganda.

It was always the job of The Ukraine government to secure the site, which of course they did not perform.

The game is so obvious it is laughable.

Does Ukraine needs Russia's permission in its own territory? Laughable.

I was under a different impression,and that the entire area is out of their control, thanks for clearing that up.

originally posted by: learnatic
a reply to: Shana91aus

I saw over the weekend that somebody went got the original of that tape and found 3 distinct edit points in it. The OP said that the tape includes sections of conversations that go back and forwards from the future to the present and from the past into the present. The tape could have been edited so suit a propaganda purpose.

Now who would do that and why.

If this whole sad event disappears off the media fairly quickly you can be assured that it has been milked for its propaganda value and who would you think would have gained from that, Putin?

Do you have a link for that i cant find it, Sounds interesting .. I saw about the video being posted before the event even happened not sure if that was a hoax or? but like i said i have read so much conflicting stuff its really hard to sort the fact from fiction.

Yeah it's up to Ukraine to secure the site, but the thing is they can't secure the whole area, it's rebel held territory. You don't think if they could of taken back their territory by know they would have?

Unless the rebels really are backed/being given orders from Moscow, Russia can't help secure the site either - as many people are asking.

a reply to: madaliceseason

"Rebel held territory" means nothing.

If Ukraine thinks its their territory, then it is Government's job to provide services in this area, specially in this particular situation.

Did rebels fire on any rescuers or investigators? I have not seen any such reports.

a reply to: GargIndia

Well the Rebels stated they would let other Nations investigate, but were undecided on whether officials from Ukraine would be allowed in or near the crash site, in the mean time they said they weren't allowed.

The cooperation of Russia (and rebels) was easy to get but the thick propaganda and immediate accusations created an atmosphere of grave doubt about intentions.

Considering it is a war zone, the logic says investigation would take time. But here it took all of five minutes and the culprit was known.

There is nothing to discuss. People who want to live in dreamland cannot be helped.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Actually they refused to take custody of the black boxes (russia) because they knew if they took custody claims of evidence tampering would pop up.

a reply to: MysterX

They are not even trying to get to the site, obviously because they have been told to hold back by those with dark political motives designed to make it look as though they are being prevented from going there, when all the while they could simply get in a car, chopper or even an APC if they wanted to, and go there! But...as American politicians state openly...why let a good tragedy go to waste, or better still a good frame up job.

that was worth repeating

This is the second time I'm reading this unbelievable form of thought.

From the OP:

To me what they are saying about doing it to blame the rebels seems plausible to me, it is a war after all, what better way to get the world on their side.

Why couldn't the UA government organized the horrendous murdering of Western civilians, children included?

Well, one obvious point is that it is risking way too much for a dubious PR event, that's why. As I wrote elsewhere:
it is obvious that the UA government would risk their very existence if it turned out that they murdered 300 Western civilians - among them 80 children. With the help of the state - the airline control the plane was trusting. In a world where missiles are tracked by satellites.

If the Ukrainian government organized this - they would have to have an ironclad no-leak conspiracy involving all the technical staff of the whole country.

In contrast, if the rebels shot the plane (hopefully by mistake), as is still more likely, no one would expect the Russian government to step down. Maybe they aid and abet the Russian rebels in Ukraine (they seem very welll equipped), but it is not their direct responsibility if they screw up. Last but not least, they were not using the air controlling and communications network of the state.

Another point is that the UA government has not been terribly efficient.
Unlike Russians.
Yes there could be some far righters there too, but could they organize shooting down a civilian flight and keeping everything secret? It's been several days now and not a shred of incriminating evidence turned out towards the authorities, except for some Russian finger pointing.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: MysterX

They are not even trying to get to the site, obviously because they have been told to hold back by those with dark political motives designed to make it look as though they are being prevented from going there, when all the while they could simply get in a car, chopper or even an APC if they wanted to, and go there! But...as American politicians state openly...why let a good tragedy go to waste, or better still a good frame up job.

that was worth repeating

its the hold back technique
Let me at them, I'll fight them while your mates hold you back. makes you look like u are trying to do something

originally posted by: St Udio

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
so he waited for the "evidence" to be dissapeared and comes out with this....interesting....

good catch... Putin allowed chaos & anarchy to run the crash site investigation.... instead of a decent Crime Scene Investigation headed by the International Civil Aviation Authority...the site is like a carnival melee with tourists or reporters disturbing all the evidence in a willy-nilly fashion

on the radio news today... the newscast team (WRNN local talk station) told us that the Wikipedia page about flight 17 was changed by Russia no less.... they changed the jet takedown from being done by 'terrorists' to being taken down by 'Ukraine'~~that happened over the weekend~~

I think that Putin is going back to his KGB era training.... he's got the black boxes,. the crash sites are a investigation nightmare, etc. ~he must feel secure enough to either cover up evidence or to skew the evidence enough to escape being charged with the crime

There is no "good catch" here.

All I see is blind fear and propaganda.

The 'Commie Haters' are propagating inflammatory headlines in an attempt to incite violence against innocent civilians.

The only country that wants war is the US and as 'USual', they are creating an incident to FEED their #1 Industry.

That such a transparent lie as a SECOND Malay aircraft should be the centre of ANOTHER international incident is succeeding at bringing out the calls for WAR speaks volumes to the controllability of the ignorant masses by their EVIL overlords.

Here is a glimpse into the Russian psyche. I find it very similar to that of the average Canadian.

www.youtube.com...=235