Video found of MH17 black box, rebels caught in a lie.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: demus

Fifteen Dutch investigators and sixty two from Malaysia along with others.

They were sent by their governments, along with the ICAO because they have an interest in determining what happened.

They have been trying to reach the crash site but with the rebels refusing to issue a cease for for that area they've had problems due to fighting.

after many western leaders and politicians already decided that it's Russia, it's Putin, it's separatists should they trust the investigators?

do you think situation on the field is so simple?

we have lack of information.

originally posted by: demus

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: demus

Fifteen Dutch investigators and sixty two from Malaysia along with others.

They were sent by their governments, along with the ICAO because they have an interest in determining what happened.

They have been trying to reach the crash site but with the rebels refusing to issue a cease for for that area they've had problems due to fighting.

after many western leaders and politicians already decided that it's Russia, it's Putin, it's separatists should they trust the investigators?

do you think situation on the field is so simple?

we have lack of information.

Just like you've already made up your mind its Kiev (despite evidence to the contrary).

Double standard.

a reply to: demus

And who would you have investigate it? Russia and the rebels? Iran? China? Because none of them would possibly have any interest in skewing the investigation either.

originally posted by: clay2 baraka

originally posted by: demus

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: demus

Fifteen Dutch investigators and sixty two from Malaysia along with others.

They were sent by their governments, along with the ICAO because they have an interest in determining what happened.

They have been trying to reach the crash site but with the rebels refusing to issue a cease for for that area they've had problems due to fighting.

after many western leaders and politicians already decided that it's Russia, it's Putin, it's separatists should they trust the investigators?

do you think situation on the field is so simple?

we have lack of information.

Just like you've already made up your mind its Kiev (despite evidence to the contrary).

Double standard.

now you will just have to say why do you think "I made up my mind it's Kiev"...?

I am saying there is serious lack of information (real information) about this tragedy and there is huge amount of propaganda noise.

we shouldn't make our conclusions so fast.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: demus

And who would you have investigate it? Russia and the rebels? Iran? China? Because none of them would possibly have any interest in skewing the investigation either.

I am saying we should wait for investigation.

the problem is that many politicians and leaders already made up their mind. Why?

and how?

without any evidence what so ever?

already seen?

a reply to: demus

You have to investigate now. But if the West is biased and has already made up their mind, who should investigate. Any country will have some kind of agenda.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: demus

You have to investigate now. But if the West is biased and has already made up their mind, who should investigate. Any country will have some kind of agenda.

the real question is why have they already made up their mind?

that is really telling.

someone should investigate, surely, but you cannot blame anyone for lack of trust in "investigators" especially after all the accusation that are continuing to pour.

I think the world leaders already know exactly what happened it is 2014 for Christ sake eyes in the sky everywhere the reason for the delay is so they can figure out how they want to deal with it.

My 2 cents.

I just posted this as well,

Would be interesting to see if now they report it was planted

Demus does have a point about the information black hole though. Without anything definitive it's all waffle. Even in the OP was the mention of Russia having the black boxes, all I heard was that it was reported that the separatists had them, other reports had them taken to Moscow by the rebels, there was nobody standing by those reports, but nevertheless they were used in news reports, then 'enlarged' upon by the various experts than pop into the news rooms.
Even John Kerry is at it tonight, with seeing vapour trails, and times and places presumably from satellite imagery, but he's just talking, not showing. I for one will not be taking sides here, because all the suspects, Ukraine, Russia and the rebels governments are a pack of gangsters, Meh! how different is that from the West, you can trust nobody, however you can be sure the propaganda and the rhetoric is flying, even here in some threads. Hold your own counsel guys, and watch out for those who have every 'i' dotted and every 't' crossed.

a reply to: generik

It is certainly odd that the flight path wasn't closed, whoever deemed it 'safe' obviously ignored the fact that other aircraft had been targeted.

They shouldn't have been flying there. Surely those on the flight would want to know the flightpath prior to booking/ boarding, it makes sense to avoid such places.

isn't there some kind of warning that goes off when something gets to close to the plane in flight?

if so it would at least identify if it was to the left, right or dead up the middle as it approached.

a reply to: smurfy

For that very reason I have refrained from making judgement and commenting about it. From the moment it was aired on the news, Obama etc were all gung ho blaming Putin, sans any facts. The propaganda is obvious and they are all really just gangsters, at least that is becoming clearer every day.

I for one will not be taking sides here, because all the suspects, Ukraine, Russia and the rebels governments are a pack of gangsters, Meh! how different is that from the West, you can trust nobody, however you can be sure the propaganda and the rhetoric is flying, even here in some threads. Hold your own counsel guys, and watch out for those who have every 'i' dotted and every 't' crossed.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Only of the approaching object has a broadcasting transponder.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Moresby

Of course, because it's possible to have the entire ten mile debris field in one picture.

You're reaching. There's no indication that's even a crash site. And nothing to indicate when the video was taken.

The only thing connecting this video to MH17 is the label put on the video by the uploader. The YouTube channel is recently launched and of dubious pedigree. Very suspicious stuff.

Where is the usual ATS debunking crowd? They should be all over this video with their arrows and protractors.

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: generik

It is certainly odd that the flight path wasn't closed, whoever deemed it 'safe' obviously ignored the fact that other aircraft had been targeted.

They shouldn't have been flying there. Surely those on the flight would want to know the flightpath prior to booking/ boarding, it makes sense to avoid such places.

That too is something that while being discussed in news rooms early on, is short on comments latterly.
Let's just say it is now the order of the day, because who'd have thought well armed military/militia did not have airline timetables.

originally posted by: Moresby

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Moresby

Of course, because it's possible to have the entire ten mile debris field in one picture.

You're reaching. There's no indication that's even a crash site. And nothing to indicate when the video was taken.

The only thing connecting this video to MH17 is the label put on the video by the uploader. The YouTube channel is recently launched and of dubious pedigree. Very suspicious stuff.

Where is the usual ATS debunking crowd? They should be all over this video with their arrows and protractors.

It would be easy enough to get a helicopter and photograph the debris field from a good few thousand feet up in the air. If you look at the Lockerbie tragedy, when the wings fell to the ground the burning fuel melted the soil and created huge craters in the ground. The plane had just taken off and was long distance flight, so the fuel tanks would have been absolutely full. So there must be craters somewhere, otherwise the wings were well and truly riddled with holes. The charred remains of the undercarriage of the aircraft show that there was some burning.

We haven't seen any airplane windows, the pilots cockpit, the tail fin or even wings. So far, all we have seen is a couple of undercarriage wheel assemblies and a flat bit of tail bulkhead, a squashed engine and a few suitcases and clean passports.

What could the black box tell us? Either the plane disintegrated instantaneously like a failed space shuttle reentry, or there was gradual disintegration that would have set off warning lights an alarms, given the pilots a good panic which would have been recorded. It might tell us that the pilots were asked to fly at a particular altitude and told to expect a fighter escort (one in front, one behind).

It seems strange - either the plane was punctured in multiple places and would hav

Then there is always the case of mistaken identity as with the Bowers family and pilot that were shot down by military planes due to mistaken identity. The video is here:

originally posted by: clay2 baraka

Just like you've already made up your mind its Kiev (despite evidence to the contrary).

It is kievs responsibility, as they are ultimately responsible for the flights flightpath over its country. Knowing full well, that its destination is, and where it passes, they allow it fully aware of its possibilities. After theyve had their planes shot down over the area.

Allowing any civilian airliner to fly over a warzone, is a crime in itself. Claiming that the pilot filed this path, is not an excuse. The flight path must be filed and inspected, and dutch authorities should have interveined.

And the fact, that both kiev and us were so quick on their gun, is proof that they were hoping and trying to use this tragedy as an opportunity to afvance their own stragedic point. Which makes them a suspect.

a reply to: bjarneorn

How is it Kiev's responsibility when the Russians shot it down?