No, Israel Does Not Have the Right to Self-Defense In International Law Against Occupied Palestinian

a reply to: OpinionatedB

They are rockets, not flies. I see what you're trying to do here with that lol. Oh they don't reach? Ya sure just like the M 302 rocket that hit Hadera, 200 km range. M75s and J8 rockets as well, M75s with about a 80 km range. Quit trying to downplay with lies.

a reply to: LoverBoy

Israel's offensive in the Gaza Strip could be escalated into an effort to destroy Hamas's entire arsenal of rockets, an official warned as the Palestinian death toll climbed to 333.
On the twelfth day of Operation Protective Edge, Israeli forces bombarded the town of Beit Lahiya near the northern border of Gaza, causing thousands to flee their homes.
The United Nations said that 73 of the Palestinian dead were children under the age of 18, comprising 22 per cent of the total. Five Israelis have died, three of them earlier: two soldiers were killed during operations in Gaza and a Bedouin man died when a rocket exploded near the southern town of Dimona, the site of a nuclear reactor.

www.telegraph.co.uk... ckets.html

This looks "fair" to you?
Okay, let's count the three boys who were murdered, and then the one who was poured full of gasoline and burned alive.
That makes 8 Israelis, and 334(? or was the burned-alive kid counted in the 333 ?) Palestinians.



Quit trying to justify wholesale slaughter by a bully nation.

Israel FAILED in protecting the Palestinians. That ship has sailed. That is why Palestinians voted for HAMAS.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

When you use civilians as cover, there is collateral damage. Its called war. I forget that some of you who have never faced war except from your live feeds seem to believe that it must be "fair".

a reply to: LoverBoy

International law says that, not I. I'd call what Israel is doing "overkill." When you use civilians as targets and tell them to "flee" when they have nowhere to go, you are called an oppressive terrorist.

originally posted by: MrCynic
I have a question? I know I'm new and I hope I don't get pounded for asking this, but it stands out to be asked?

If Israel cannot meet the tools and means of military force with military force, what are they expected to do? They built a wall along the West Bank side of Palestine and it's ended much of that issue. The West Bank, this morning, is not at war and is not sustaining Israeli strikes. Gaza is, and after the Hamas leadership of Gaza authorized or ordered the firing of countless rockets/missiles across Israel. Are they supposed to go in and arrest those firing military weapons systems against civilian cities?

I'm just assuming here, but I don't believe those police officers would find success in their mission. I believe they'd find death if lucky and capture if not.

So when you have a militarized force, using military weapons systems against your cities, and all of this is based in and coming from an area with no police presence or ability by those being fired upon, what is a nation to do?

Israel can't ask "what are we supposed to do" at this point. They DID what what was done to deserve up to, but not limited to rocket fire and seething hate. They STOLE a sovereign land from innocent people, THEN the rockets came.

a reply to: MALBOSIA

They STOLE a sovereign land from innocent people, THEN the rockets came.

Actually, they were GIVEN IT by a third party committee.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

It seems that Israel doesn't care what international govts think. You can call it what you like. 2/3 of Americans disagree with you according to recent polls I will gladly provide.

a reply to: LoverBoy

I'm supposed to care what 2/3rds of Americans think?
I believe that's called "argumentum populum" or something like that. Lots of Americans (almost half?) also think the world is fewer than 10,000 years old. And that Jesus is coming back, and so Israel must be given free rein to destroy whoever. Like shooting fish in a barrel...are the Palestinians nothing but fish?

Sad.

originally posted by: LoverBoy
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

When you use civilians as cover, there is collateral damage. Its called war. I forget that some of you who have never faced war except from your live feeds seem to believe that it must be "fair".

They are not using civilians as cover. Civilians are HELPING Hamas because they believe in the cause. A Palestinian child can hate his life so much that he would go at a tank with an empty bottle, that is not a human shield. Palestinians fight WITH Hamas and if they didn't want them in Gaza, they wouldn't be there. Would you rather HAMAS stood out in an open field or in their military base that doesn't exist nor could exist due to sanctions. I bet Israel wants HAMAS standing out in the open so their can use they world renowned "measures response" to wipe an entire democratically elected authority off the earth. Sounds like something Israel would demand claiming Holocaust or some BS.

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Heck the don't really even need to deflect them. They aren't powerful enough to get far enough into any populated area for goodness sake. It's more like the annoying fly....

These "military grade rockets" are seldom more than a crude pipe bomb attached to an improvised Estes propulsion system, they also almost never do any damage.
I was under the belief that was what our 4 billion a year donation to israel was for that and the iron dome.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: MALBOSIA

They STOLE a sovereign land from innocent people, THEN the rockets came.

Actually, they were GIVEN IT by a third party committee.

They were given a settlement. Not the NATION of Israel and the ANNEXATION of Palestine. The boarders today were not GIVEN to anyone. They were TAKEN through military force after such force was deemed ILLEGAL by international treaty.

a reply to: MALBOSIA

Okay. In any case, it was after WW2, in 1948, that the "Jewish state" was created and dumped on the people who had already lived there for thousands of years.

Not sure whether you are attacking or agreeing.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: MALBOSIA

They STOLE a sovereign land from innocent people, THEN the rockets came.

Actually, they were GIVEN IT by a third party committee.

If I were to use that excuse in court, the judge would drop the hammer on me for possession of and acceptance of stolen goods.
It's not like they didn't ask for that piece of property in particular.

a reply to: g146541

Perhaps I don't understand what our conflict is.

I don't think Israel has a "right" to exist and inflict barbaric slaughter and disenfranchisement onto the Palestinians.

a reply to: MALBOSIA

They were given land, bought more land and then the surrounding nations decided to try and destroy them and failed... in war you keep what you take when you win typically.

The question that needs to be asked but never is... Why has no surrounding nation done a blessed thing for the Palestinians other than use them in a proxy war against Israel?

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: LoverBoy

International law has to be abided by. Period. There is no justifiable excuse to ignore international law. It was made for the safety and welfare of the citizens of this earth. All of us.

No excuse at all to simply ignore it.

Tell that to Putin, ISIS, US, Central America, and all the rest. Why single out Israel, the world isn't a very nice place right now. I guess since it's your op you can single out who you like.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs
What loverboy is saying may be true...
But many angles must be looked at in this supposed ...2/3rds.
AAre we talking 2/3 of the whole population of the US?
I do not remember being in that poll.
How was it worded?? was the question a direct question or was it one of those vague ones?
Are we talking 2/3rds of California or Oklahoma? There would be a huge difference there.
The whole 2/3rds figure is absolutely bunk and made up to sway the fence sitters.
Nothing more than easy propaganda.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: g146541

Perhaps I don't understand what our conflict is.

I don't think Israel has a "right" to exist and inflict barbaric slaughter and disenfranchisement onto the Palestinians.

A logical thinker, I like this.
We have no conflict, I was just explaining what happens when you knowingly accept stolen goods.

a reply to: g146541

I think he's probably talking about Evangelical Christians who think this is necessary to bring Jesus back. But, since he hasn't provided the sources, I don't know.

I DO know that I think war is wrong, and that violence begets violence. And Israel is overcompensating. And it makes me sick. These are "Godly" people? I don't think so. If they were, they'd be protecting the Palestinians, including them in their 'nation' as equals, and not privileging themselves at the expense of Palestinians.

It reminds me of the Native American tribes trying to defend themselves against the "white invaders".