Why Kiev Brought Down Flight MH-17…

MH17 crash: Ukraine releases alleged intercepts
Ukrainian authorities have released what they say are intercepted phone conversations between pro-Russian separatists and what appear to be Russian military officers saying that separatists shot down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17.
The Ukrainian Security Service put the Russian-language conversations on YouTube within hours of the crash.
The veracity of the recordings cannot be confirmed
www.bbc.co.uk...

The Ukrainian government video confirms to everyone on this forum (and indeed anyone worldwide) just one thing: Eastern Ukraine’s self-determination fighters did not deliberately bring this plane down. Why does the Ukrainian government’s u-tube video, literally confirm nothing less than this? Because…
(If you've listened to the Youtube, provided within BBC link above) it is very clear Ukraine’s self-determination fighters were immediately filled with natural denial, followed by immense regret.

They did not sound like “the savages” (sometimes found in certain other countries) who rejoice in killing civilians, for pleasing their concept of a God (and-or politics).

Given this evidence comes from “security services” presently in civil war with almost all Ukrainian regions (where either a majority of people speak Russian, and-or are of a Russian ethnicity) anything good they do say about these people (particularly as evidence to the world on MH-17’s fate) simply cannot be (by itself) far away from absolute credibility.

Yet: Their Evidence is Also Incredibly Odd…
(Using the UK governments, BBC link, as reference)
1. Their video starts at (its own On-Screen 4.40 minute, mark) for the first 17 seconds.
2. Then it goes backwards in time 7 minutes to 4.33, running for ten seconds
3. Then 38 minutes forwards in time to 5.11 (i.e. 31 minutes after the Ukrainian video started showing you stuff).
4. In “cut 4” we begin 21 minutes later (at 5.32) till the BBC video’s 1.23 minute mark (i.e. for a duration of 40 seconds)
5. We now travel 10 minutes further forward in time till 5.42 for 34 seconds i.e. till the videos 1.57 minutes mark end video.

If I Didn’t Know Any Better…
What we are seeing is real Eastern Ukraine resistance fighters, talking out of context about the MH-17 plane crash. Why they are talking out of context I will leave to your own brain... But I demand you consider this: A BBC video lasting 117 seconds, with no less than 5 cut marks (including the use of “backwards in time travel”) doesn't constitute evidence of (almost) any description!

It does however maybe constitute propaganda (and the use of that word “maybe” is most generous towards Ukraine’s government).

Note: How that BBC transcript (on link given) skilfully reduces the number of cuts to just 3, and also avoids any mention of the “backwards in time travel” information presentation (or indeed any times whatsoever!). We British aren’t always the best, but when it comes to propaganda... It can be safely said our BBC kicks ass over Ukraine State Security!

It Should Also Be Noted…
1. If anyone was to record a long conversation between e.g. a group of Americans as they first learnt about dead bodies falling all over their State, and if they were to then use (at will from long conversations) any 5 segments of their words, and then put this together (using both forwards and backwards tape “time travel” relative to their order, of actual comments
of disbelief, followed by horror) then most people could probably make it sound like (at least for 117 seconds) that those sincerely appalled accidentally committed the very tragedy they were discussing & condemning. Frankly: With enough editing, almost anything is possible.

Consequently (if Kiev's evidence was so stunning) you’d expect to be able to find a longer, unedited you-tube. Instead you can't. Here's the longest broadcast I could find. It is precisely the same in original content, although 2.16 minutes long (as it’s edited by the broadcaster for their own explanation text) www.youtube.com...
Of course: It’s normal for media organisation to edit evidence for public broadcast, but only after the full unbroken amount has at least been put somewhere. But this evidence wasn’t edited by normal media organisations, but instead by Ukrainian State Security!

2. Ukraine’s Atrocious Short-Lived Government Already Has History Whenever it Comes to “False Flag Operations”…

Wed 5th March 2014: Ukraine crisis: bugged call reveals conspiracy theory about Kiev snipers
Estonian foreign minister Urmas Paet tells EU's Cathy Ashton about claim that provocateurs were behind Maidan killings

A leaked phone call between the EU foreign affairs chief Catherine Ashton and Estonian foreign minister Urmas Paet has revealed that the two discussed a conspiracy theory that blamed the killing of civilian protesters in the Ukrainian capital, Kiev, on the opposition rather than the ousted government.
The 11-minute conversation was posted on YouTube – it is the second time in a month that telephone calls between western diplomats discussing Ukraine have been bugged.
In the call, Paet said he had been told snipers responsible for killing police and civilians in Kiev last month were protest movement provocateurs rather than supporters of then-president Viktor Yanukovych. Ashton responds: "I didn't know … Gosh."

The leak came a day after the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, said the snipers may have been opposition provocateurs. www.theguardian.com...

(At the time these sniper killings actually happened in February 2014, the present Ukrainian government was still the Ukrainian “opposition”).

20th February 2014: Hopes that a fresh truce could end the confrontation in Kiev were dashed on Thursday when at least 21 protesters were killed in the space of a few hours.

"These are all live rounds. You can see what they do. He and all the others were shot in the head, the neck or the heart. None were shot anywhere else like in the legs."
www.telegraph.co.uk...

Only later did the EU (much later still… the rest of the free world) discover was (still unmasked) supports of the present Ukrainian government, that not only conducted the sniper killings, but also used conducted them using the same bullets against both sides, i.e. (to self-evidently evidently) deliberately kill at least a few of their own revolutions, civilian supporters –i.e. “small people”.

3. Nevertheless: The world should be very grateful to the Ukrainian administration for taking only a few hours after MH-17 to release this intercepted communication, then severely edit it, then release it for broadcast. Impressively sloppy work, even for evil guys! (Just like using the same bullets earlier was also incredibly stupid).

4.Russia believes MH17 may have double as an assassination attempt against Putin (this is a side note –and not to be this threads whole conversation). rt.com...

Could It Be…
The murder dots, left behind by no less than 298 people, are coming together?

Having clearly come to power with the assistance of False Flag operators, Ukrainian’s government perhaps judged 17/07/14 as a good time to increase opposition (from not merely already anti-Russian British & American governments) but also of the wider-worlds governments, i.e. by killing an international plane, that just so happened to be crammed people? (Some people say something very similar worked for Ukraine’s U.S political backers –at least immediately after 9/11).
It also seems, perhaps less than coincidental… That not only did the bodies of civilians & MH-17 wreckage land on territory held by Ukraine’s self-determination fighters (there’s simply little need for this as a deliberate act on their part given the BUK’s missiles range, and that all international planes tend to travel over ones territory!)

But Also…
That MH-17 crashed literally the day after the U.S unilaterally increased its sanctions against Russia for supporting Ukraine’s government opposition Wed, July 16th: www.ft.com... (unilaterally increased by the U.S, because European governments were being less than co-operational, until that is… this present day).

We know from the Ukrainian government’s video that (if) the resistance against itself did shoot MH-17 then it did so as a monumental act of manslaughter (or “Collateral Damage” as the Allies would call it).

Otherwise: The video is itself a fabrication produced at high speed, but (since it comes from Kiev’s side) this doesn’t help take Kiev off the hook, given somebody actually had to guide this old-style, Soviet missile, and we now know from Ukraine the rebels greeted the news with anything other than joy.

The problem is MH-17’s downing doesn’t stink of manslaughter, but cold-blooded murder.

Perhaps everyone should wonder, precisely what kind of contribution (as an ally) to both the EU or wider Western World, such a psychopathic government would be? (Should it survive, despite its own wicked naturel)

Mods: If there’s already a dedicated thread (actually sharing my analysis) then please merge it with mine. Otherwise please let ATS’ers draw whatever their conclusions will be, especially in the face of this analysis.

a reply to: Liberal1984

Whoa Whoa Whoa, what's with all of the strong adjectives? Your first paragraph yells " I have something to spin!" and that's where I quit reading..

I have something to say, and if your willing to listen (which your obviously not) then you might stop participating in this evil. Believing propaganda is participating.

And unlike some people on ATS (who I believe occasionally write comments very similar to your own) I'm not twisted enough, to be paid to keep people in ignorance about anything. I'm doing this solely because the deaths of 298 people appall me, as does this looking (and smelling) just like another False Flag.

Better to stop typing, or else you won't (can't) read it!!

a reply to: Liberal1984

Dude.. no, you have me all wrong. I WANT to read, I just DONT want to be sold. This is ATS, if you have good info it will be analyzed and credited. Just don't try to sell sell sell. Just state the facts and let what may be be.

I like facts and numbers, not headlines!

Edit: To be honest I much prefer numbers over facts, I just like how they add up... if you know what I mean

All I see is lots of speculation from the media and yourself.

Even so, you have picked your side. I cannot understand why as like I said...it's all speculation......far too early to have any idea who is at fault.

You need to be careful, now I guess you will reject anything from the western media without using a clear level head. Thats what happens when we pick sides in these conflicts. I suppose you think that everyone on the Russian side are choirboys.


Both sides in EVERY conflict have blood on their hands and need to stop. We should not pick sides when people are dying on both sides. Thats what starts world wars.

Fair comment pennydrops. All I know is I've been lied to by my side about probably 9/11: definitely Iraq, the truth at least distorted about Libya, in a different ways Syria, and now the (allied) Ukrainian government too.
As for whoever did this awful thing: They need to be brought to justice (especially if it was Ukraine's fighters for self-determination, and none the less if was an accident). In fact (if it was the Ukrainian resistance side) the sooner they bring those responsible, the sooner this thing could be over with.

But when I'm reading something on main stream media (outside the weather) I think I'm actually generally being lied to -I just need work out where precisely & for what logical-coherent motive. If anyone thinks this is the wrong website for this, then I sort of apologize...

doompornjunkie: You make threads your way, and me mine. I myself find headlines useful ways of noticing the more juicy bits of information. If your allegoric to this format, then I'm very sorry for you… Just don’t expect everyone to share this apparent allegory, to attention being drawn, to the more thought provoking bits.

a reply to: Liberal1984

Holy wall of text. May I be so bold as to ask for the executive summary?

All I know is (well, not ALL I know), that when the EU/US/NATO backed protestors wanted to overthrow the government, Viktor Yanukovych's government reacted with limited force. He could have come down on them like a ton of bricks but he didnt. He basically stepped down.

After the installation of the EU/US/NATO approved puppet, once again there were protestors who wanted to overthrow or were anti-government. The difference? This Petro Poroshenko has unleashed unholy hell on these people.

Ukraine attacks with chemicals, destroys schools and hospitals and kills unarmed citizens (News).

Are we witnessing the beginning of ethnic cleansing in Ukraine?

I dont know who shot down that plane but if I had to pick one of the two groups, I'd have to go with the West's latest and greatest mad man, Petro Poroshenko.

a reply to: Liberal1984

I'm actually trying to help you! (sometime I come off as a bit of a douche). Seriously, people who aren't part sheep see through all the spin. They don't like it, don't read it, despise it. Just lay it all out without bias man.

Since this is your thread however I will stop. Good luck

there is a lots of speculation, misinformation and even outright lies floating around about this tragedy.

what I CAN SEE is how Ukraine government together with high positioned US officials already made their mind about it: "It's Russia, It's Putin!"

yet, there is no evidence but lack of evidence didn't stop nobody before did it?

who benefits from this?

who would do something like this and than use it for their own advantage using whole available Mass Media machinery?

this is a perfect way to blow down Russia + and finish some things.

let us see is it going to work for those responsible.

...

I do not understand how this has anything to do with Russia. All I hear is Russia this and Russia that. Was this plane shot down in Russia? Was it shot down from Russia?

Apparently Russia is stopping an investigation about something the media here in Canada and I'm sure many other countries, already have a COMPLETE narrative loaded with threats that RUSSIA adhere to demands that Russia cannot possibly fulfil.

Is the international community asking Russia to send troops into Eastern Ukraine to secure the crash zone for investigators? I am confused. This is Ukraine. They are responsible for their own country. If they would like Russia to come back and get things back to normal, all they have to do is ask.

gladtobehere: Holy wall of text. May I be so bold as to ask for the executive summary?

I think you did it pretty well yourself when you said…

All I know is (well, not ALL I know), that when the EU/US/NATO backed protestors wanted to overthrow the government, Viktor Yanukovych's government reacted with limited force. He could have come down on them like a ton of bricks but he didnt. He basically stepped down.

After the installation of the EU/US/NATO approved puppet, once again there were protestors who wanted to overthrow the government. The difference? This Petro Poroshenko has unleashed unholy hell on these people.

I’d add to that: The reason why I did “a wall of text” is that most of it (despite originating from mainstream sources) has been quietly forgotten, by their own commentators. Few joys quite like: Tripping up lying frogs, with their own words-information!

Without even looking at the evidence of this event, you have to ask yourself who is the most likely to benefit from it? The same way it was beneficial to the US to claim Assad gassed his people as a pretext for intervention, this benefits the US because Russia is in the middle of destroying the dollar with the BRIC central banks. link

Not to mention Israel's ground invasion of Gaza on the same freaking day, come on people this was coordinated!

a reply to: gladtobehere

Ukraine attacks with chemicals, destroys schools and hospitals and kills unarmed citizens (News).

Are we witnessing the beginning of ethnic cleansing in Ukraine?

Well the first story was a lie and was told by Russian media that had to apologize for the fabricated story..

www.vocativ.com...

As for ethnic cleansing...the Russians are the only ones who have done some ethnic cleansing...

www.breitbart.com...

And did the OP ever back his assertions in that thread, because as of yet nobody has proven that Ukraine gov't of committing ethnic cleansing.

a reply to: MALBOSIA

Is the international community asking Russia to send troops into Eastern Ukraine to secure the crash zone for investigators? I am confused. This is Ukraine. They are responsible for their own country. If they would like Russia to come back and get things back to normal, all they have to do is ask.

The problem is although this is in Ukraine it is in an area controlled by separatists that aren't allowing investigators to do their jobs.

If Ukraine could get there they would. As for asking Russia for help...I think they have already helped enough in Ukraine.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Are you talking about the "international neutral inspectors" or the "Kiev inspectors", I can see why Russia wouldn't want the "Kiev inspectors" on the scene. That is regardless of Russia's guilt or innocence.

originally posted by: pennydrops
All I see is lots of speculation from the media and yourself.

Even so, you have picked your side. I cannot understand why as like I said...it's all speculation......far too early to have any idea who is at fault.

You need to be careful, now I guess you will reject anything from the western media without using a clear level head. Thats what happens when we pick sides in these conflicts. I suppose you think that everyone on the Russian side are choirboys.


Both sides in EVERY conflict have blood on their hands and need to stop. We should not pick sides when people are dying on both sides. Thats what starts world wars.

If you want the fighting to stop, then you support independence for Lughansk and Donetsk. Vladimir Putin was correct when he said the Kiev government is ultimately responsible. It doesn't matter which side shot down the plane. The plane would never have been shot down if the Kiev government wasn't sending its troops to this area. Obama wants the rebels to stop fighting, which means surrendering to a government that has banned them from speaking their own language and drops bombs on their civilian infrastructure, murdering innocent civilians on a daily basis. Obama wants them to put down their weapons and accept the genocide of their people. No human being can accept this. There are only two ways the conflict in Ukraine can stop. The first way is for the Kiev government to leave these people alone and go home. The second way is the murder of every single man, woman, and child in formerly eastern Ukraine.

What did anyone involved in this conflict have to gain by shooting down a civilian airliner that did not have Russians or Ukraine's on it ?? These people are not at war with the world.

This is most likely a BAD mistake by someone that had already shot down Ukrainian military transports thinking the liner was another transport.

I think the worst thing that has come from this is the "head dead yet" journalist, they will make this into what ever it takes to gain ratings no matter how big a lie it is, one is the Black Box, the Black Box is useless, if a missile hit the plain there is nothing on it yet they talk like we should go to war over this box.

IMO

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
I do not understand how this has anything to do with Russia. All I hear is Russia this and Russia that. Was this plane shot down in Russia? Was it shot down from Russia?

Apparently Russia is stopping an investigation about something the media here in Canada and I'm sure many other countries, already have a COMPLETE narrative loaded with threats that RUSSIA adhere to demands that Russia cannot possibly fulfil.

Is the international community asking Russia to send troops into Eastern Ukraine to secure the crash zone for investigators? I am confused. This is Ukraine. They are responsible for their own country. If they would like Russia to come back and get things back to normal, all they have to do is ask.

Amen, brother. If Russia was actually sending weapons and troops as Kiev wants western public opinion to believe, that would mean that Ukraine is at war with Russia. If this is the case why is Kiev not attacking Russia, bombing Russian military positions? Do they think that they can win a war with Russia by confining the conflict to the Lughansk and Donetsk areas? The path to peace has already been offered up by Putin, federalization of Ukraine, which gives greater autonomy to the east yet still being part of Ukraine. Kiev has rejected this because the US wants them to reject this. Kiev is responsible for their own country. This plane was shot down over their country. Kiev is responsible for the conflict in this area. Their troops don't have to be there. They are ultimately responsible for the plane being shot down, regardless of who did it.

a reply to: jaws1975

Are you talking about the "international neutral inspectors" or the "Kiev inspectors", I can see why Russia wouldn't want the "Kiev inspectors" on the scene. That is regardless of Russia's guilt or innocence.

Well I guess you could call them international neutral inspectors...

World leaders demanded Friday that pro-Russia rebels who control the crash site give immediate, unfettered access to independent investigators to determine who took down the plane.

About 30 officials, mostly from the Organization of Security and Cooperation in Europe, arrived at the crash site. The rebels allowed the officials to carry out a partial and superficial inspection.

www.usatoday.com...