America was never a Christian nation.

I am not doubting the sincere faith of the founders of America.

"My kingdom is not of this world"--Jesus

"The kingdom of heaven is inside you"--Jesus

The activities of the USA since it's inception have worked according the the spirit of the world. Slavery, war, genocide and theft of land. Those are the old.

Outrageous loss of freedom, financial slavery, war, theft of land,

Not so much has changed, and won't.

Until we begin to see through the matrix of our making. Both parties are the problem. The whole thing is a game. A ruse or a carnival. Bush Obama Hillary left right are all part of the slight of hand. Distracting you.
We will not be free until we break the bonds of our order.

Our entire structure of society is not built around mutual benefit but personal benefit. Survival of the fittest must go. That is a function of the world. That is not a principle in the kingdom.

We need to stop celebrating Independence Day. We should live all days in inter-dependence.

"Who is my neighbor?" Asked a disciple during the Good Samaritan parable.

We have one way of thinking: " should we call down fire from heaven ?" Asked a son of thunder. "You don't know what spirit you are of".

" father forgive them for they know not what they do" this as he was being killed as their scapegoat.

LOA
Love one another

The new man made of all of mankind as the living temple of God, this is the kingdom. This is the only Christian nation there was is or will be.

No land in Israel. No religious majority. No ethical/moral law based heirarchy of men. No matter how much you win politically you lose. The system will continue it's purpose. To keep you thinking you're making victories for god.

Shalom

originally posted by: zardust
I am not doubting the sincere faith of the founders of America.

The founding fathers were all deists, as far as I know. Guessing that's the faith you mean though, judging from your thread title. This definitely isn't the nation they envisioned either way.

A Christian nation (the only one there is or will ever be...) based on a foundation of genocide and slavery?

To claim there was no other option is very mendacious.

The son of god/god couldn't have it any other way if it was going to be the one singular christian nation in the history of the planet?

Behold! The New Atlantis.

a reply to: zardust

The activities of the USA since it's inception have worked according the the spirit of the world. Slavery, war, genocide and theft of land. Those are the old.

Outrageous loss of freedom, financial slavery, war, theft of land,

If I tweak that just a bit, like this:

"The activities of the Roman Catholic Church since it's inception have worked according the the spirit of the world. Slavery, war, genocide and theft of land. Those are the old.

Outrageous loss of freedom, financial slavery, war, theft of land, "

One could easily say the Roman Catholic Church and the Vatican were never a Christian organization.

As far as I'm concerned, Christianity is just another political affiliation, nothing more. Spirituality comes from another place.

When did the settlers start building churches and how many were built? I think the overwhelming majority of citizens were, in fact, Christians. It doesn't matter what the gov was, you go by what the people was. Many early photos show lots and lots of churches.

The founding fathers were all deists

exactly.. and note how this is (one of) the same requirement(s) to enter the masonic lodge system..

the networks were established early in the university systems (yale, harvard, etc)
they were NOT christians, it would be better to term them rosicrucians, quakers & gnostics (until a better term comes along)

and they ALL knew what they were doing..

Behold! The New Atlantis.

bill cooper's mystery babylon part 19 (68th convocation of the rose cross)

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

The founding fathers were all deists, as far as I know.

Then your knowledge is a little lacking, lol.

Jefferson and Franklin were deists. The rest of them were Protestants, Quakers and there was one Catholic who signed the Declaration of Independence. I think that they had a Unitarian in there, as well.

Most people's beliefs regarding the Establishment Clause are seriously off from its original intent, which was to prevent a state church, like they had in England. In England in the time of Jefferson, you had to sign the 39 Articles of the Church of England or you couldn't participate in government. Jefferson, not being a Christian, obviously couldn't do that, hence we have the Establishment Clause to prevent that sort of thing from happening here.

Those who think that the First Amendment somehow provides for "freedom FROM religion", or that religion can have no impact in governance because of it have no clue what it really says.

You may find this article helpful: Religious Affiliation of the Founding Fathers of the United States of America

a reply to: adjensen

I looked at your link. It doesn't mention "deists" even as a category, yet we know for certain that Thomas Paine was, in fact, a Deist.

But it IS interesting to me that the majority of them were supposedly Episcopalians/Anglicans - the MOST Progressive of the large mainstream churches. Well doy - they came from England, where the Church of England was THE religion.

The settlers were a different story - and 200 years earlier than the Founding Fathers - all were long dead by the time of the Revolution. It was the settlers who left to come to the New World to practice their Puritan/Quaker/Anabaptist faiths without persecution from the CoE.

That the Founding Fathers were mostly CoE followers AND allowed freedom of religious expression and separation of it from government speaks volumes to the tyranny of the "Christian Nation" that was the English Monarchy.

As for your "freedom FROM religion" was not included or intended, well - I beg to differ. They intended to NOT USE FAITH in governance. And THAT needs to stay.

how about george h w bush signing into US law the Judaic Noahide laws. ?
a reply to: zardust

“If I could conceive that the general government might ever be so administered as to render the liberty of conscience insecure, I beg you will be persuaded, that no one would be more zealous than myself to establish effectual barriers against the horrors of spiritual tyranny, and every species of religious persecution.”
- George Washington, letter to the United Baptist Chamber of Virginia (1789)

“Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, then that of blindfolded fear.”
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr (1787)

“Persecution is not an original feature in any religion; but it is always the strongly marked feature of all religions established by law. Take away the law-establishment, and every religion re-assumes its original benignity.”
- Thomas Paine, The Rights of Man (1791)

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."
- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack (1758)

“Our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry.”
- Thomas Jefferson, A Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom (1779)

"Christian establishments tend to great ignorance and corruption, all of which facilitate the execution of mischievous projects."
- James Madison, letter to William Bradford, Jr. (1774)

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."
- James Madison, General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Virginia (1785)

Our founding father wanted to make sure that no leader or body of law makers or justices could ever wrap themselves in the cloak of divinity, professing to be legislating the "Word of God".

Religion has no place in government whatsoever.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

They intended to NOT USE FAITH in governance.

Nope.

If you study the history of the founding of the republic, the Establishment Clause was there for a very specific reason, which I cited. There was never any intent to, say, prevent a clergyman from serving in office, which would be what "Freedom FROM religion" would get you.

For some reason, people latch onto Jefferson not being a Christian and assume that the country was founded by a bunch of atheists, which is the furthest thing from the truth.

What Did the Founding Generation Mean by "FreeExercise"?
By the phrase "free exercise," the founding generation appears to have meant freedom of religion for all theists, not just Christians; but not the freedom from religion sought by atheists and agnostics. (Source)

I would HIGHLY recommend reading that whole article before responding to the bit that I cited.

a reply to: adjensen

Our Government has no religion or religious affiliation. And, sure a member of the clergy can and has been elected to office by their constituents, but if they try to legislated their religion it would be a violation of the "Establishment Clause".

a reply to: windword

but if they try to legislated according to their religion it would be a violation of the "Establishment Clause".

No, it wouldn't. You clearly do not understand what the word "establishment" and the concept "free exercise" means.

a reply to: adjensen

What part of:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"
don't you understand?

originally posted by: adjensen
Then your knowledge is a little lacking, lol.

lol at you too.

You're right though, not all of them were deists.

Hard to know who was devout and who wasn't. Not that it really matters.

a reply to: UNIT76
"they were NOT christians, it would be better to term them rosicrucians, quakers & gnostics (until a better term comes along)"
How about the term "Freethinkers"? Our Founding Fathers, if anything, were mostly sons of the Renaissance, and they embraced the Enlightenment. They drove a stake into the heart of Medieval ignorance. And today, in the 21st century, we have so far to go.

a reply to: adjensen

For some reason, people latch onto Jefferson not being a Christian and assume that the country was founded by a bunch of atheists, which is the furthest thing from the truth.

Did I say anything about "a bunch of atheists"? No. I did not.

a reply to: windword

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion

And what makes you think that sentence is a prohibition on someone in government making decisions that are reflective of his or her religious beliefs?

No, they can't legislate a religion, but that's not what you claimed they couldn't do.

Any law or rule that said that a, say Methodist, was precluded from making decisions based on their Methodist beliefs would be a clear violation of the free exercise clause.

There is no such thing as "Freedom FROM religion" in the Constitution, and there never was, no matter how much moron atheists would like there to be. (And before you get your dander up, I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about these idiots.)

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I meant you thought that. But it's a common opinion on ATS.