Malaysian 777 Passenger Airline Shot Down Over Eastern Ukraine

originally posted by: AstraCat
The passports of the passengers look too brand new, especially near burned wreckage. How could it possibly be? Shouldn't the passports be in passenger's luggage?

They may have been collected from the near by fields. A plane crash isn't all hollywood, if you look them up you'll notice no smoke trails or faint smoke trails, and as far as the impact, it was loaded with fuel so the missile didn't destroy the plane, just did enough damage to tear it open and let depressurization unzip the rest. One man who witnessed the crash said he ran out of his apartment to see debris falling from the plane as it went over, then realized that it was bodies and luggage being sucked out. It's a sad day, horrible for the passengers and their families. I think that they were most likely unconscious at the least when the plane broke open. This is my biggest fear while flying, just got on to read this after watching the news on and off all day. RIP to the nearly 300 souls on board

originally posted by: AstraCat
The passports of the passengers look too brand new, especially near burned wreckage. How could it possibly be? Shouldn't the passports be in passenger's luggage?

The passports would not remain in passenger's luggage if people go there an collect them, at least those which did not catch fire.

By the way, my passport looks also "brand new", even if it is several years old. (In fact I just checked, my passport is ten years old). Reason being that passports (at least the newer European ones) A) are laminated and B) usually sit somewhere stored, it's not something you take out every day to play football with or drag it through mud.

To add........remember I had already said in another thread certain people were looking for constant data streaming and getting rid of black boxes.

Wonder if Iridium has any sort of connection to this aircraft.

Also geomagnetic influencing of true north and magnetic north would alter a waypoint if pointing in the wrong direction hence why it was where it shouldnt have been .

There are already speculations about a false flag, about Ukie military aircraft seen flying next to the Malaysian aircraft, even about some parachutes seen near the place were the plane was shot down. I have even seen some speculations about Putin's official aircraft looking like the Malaysian one and that this could have been an attempt to shoot it down. Clearly the rumor mill is blasting at full power.

Still, the Ukies have already immensely benefited from this incident: now that all the media is completely focused on what happened to this Malaysian airliner, nobody is informed of the catastrophic failure of Poroshenko "surprise" offensive. Right there we already have the first cui bono going to the junta. Second, since no matter what happened the western regimes and media will blame the Russians for this incident, the Ukies will use it in their propaganda campaign (they apparently have already asked NATO for "help" whatever that means). So that is a second cui bono for the junta. As for the Novorussians and Russia, this incident is really the last thing they need.

For whatever it's worth, and without wanting to give anybody false hopes, I personally think that it is extremely unlikely that the Russians did it because they have a fully integrated, multi layered, advance air defense systems staffed only by specialists. In contrast, the Ukies have an old, decrepit, non-integrated air defense "system" staffed by underpaid, demoralized and poorly trained conscripts. And since the Kremlin likes to maintain the illusion that it does not control the Novorussians, even if there is proof that the latter are responsible for this catastrophe, this will not directly implicate Russia (which would have been the worst option). I hope that the Russians will be able to prove that the Novorussians did not do it by, for example, finding key parts of the missile(s) which hit MH17 or by showing all the Resistance missiles "unshot", right there in the hangars were they were found.

Another thing which has not been done is a careful calculation of the exact flight envelope of the missiles in Novorussian hands. In the real world, you cannot just say that a missile can shoot a target going at speed X and altitude Y. You need to calculate an exact flight envelope and compare it against the exact flight characteristics of the target supposedly hit. In other words, until somebody makes such an analysis, there is no proof that the Novorussian Buks could have shot down this aircraft.

Then, let's see what the black boxes show. Apparently, those were found by the good guys and sent to Moscow. Also, the Russian Air Defenses have the exact flight parameters of the Malaysian aircraft and of any missile(s) which could have hit him. If the Ukies did it, chances are pretty good that the Russians will be able to prove it. Alas, if the Novorussians did it, the Russians will probably also provide the evidence as covering up for it would be foolish.

Saker

vineyardsaker.blogspot.com...

originally posted by: AstraCat
The passports of the passengers look too brand new, especially near burned wreckage. How could it possibly be? Shouldn't the passports be in passenger's luggage?

yeah that strange looking pristine pasport.. something more to add to this puzzle..

It's sickening to read comments everywhere that already blame Russia with the greatest confidence. As if Russia pulled the trigger Intentionally . As if they had anything to gain from this. Astonishing how successful the demonization of Russia has been by the world-wide neocon media establishment.

It's puzzling why on the one hand it's claimed that flying above 30000ft is perfectly safe, which is why Ukrainian airspace has been filled with passenger aircraft all throughout the conflict, and now we're told that anyone can get his hands on missile launchers and successfully hit an aircraft flying at 33000ft. Military aircraft have already been hit recently, why weren't measures taken then?

I have my doubts that we'll ever find out the truth, again. This was became political the moment it happened. I for one am not expecting anything resembling objectivity from the Western establishment media.

Stepping a little bit back and looking at all the data regarding MH17, I see the following :

There was a explosion on board MH17 - which is almost certain given how the debris are spread. If someone want to conduct a 'false flag' attack with a timed bomb, what would be better than MH17 that flies over Donetsk every day like clockwork. It was assured that seeing a plane going down the rebels will claim responsibility, thereby implicating themselves and indirectly Russia.

The rebels does not have any high-altitude SAM systems, and MH17 was shot down like the AN-26 from across the border as the Ukrainians were claiming a few days back. This is very unlikely. It would be ridiculous to assume that Russians would not be able to detect a B777 from an AN-26.

originally posted by: milomilo
In contrast, the Ukies have an old, decrepit, non-integrated air defense "system" staffed by underpaid, demoralized and poorly trained conscripts.

vineyardsaker.blogspot.com...

Wouldn't even old, decrepit radar systems be able to pick up a civilian's planes transponder? Don't SAM systems have advanced radar as part of their system?

How about the website flightaware? It tells you the approximate location of commercial airliners. This as a standard flight path. It may not have been one used by this specific flight but it was used on a daily basis by commercial aircrafts.

What's happened to CNN?

My TV has locked up with a LIVE shot of Tony AButt captioned: "This is not an accident, it's a crime".

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: WASTYT
Shouldn't there be smoke trails streaming from a plane that was shot down at 30k feet?

Why in this video supposedly showing the moment of explosion do we not see any smoke trails in the sky leading downwards toward the point of impact? Remember TWA 800?

It depends on where the missile exploded and what type of missile / warhead used. Since there was a 10 mile long debris trail its safe to assume it didnt not explode on impact.

Do you not think it weird a person is in that place at that time with a recording device looking at a plane that was hit by a missile? Perfect timing or?

From the sound of the video, it sounds like a tank.. look at the mud.. tank looking tracks.. maybe THEY were the ones that shot it down? or knew of it? who knows.... I think the Sams are on a mobile truck with wheels though, or no?

a reply to: clay2 baraka

He is right about that the area is indeed a war zone so how why wasn't the airliner have being aware of that?

a reply to: Daughter2

Actually in the situation like this, fighter pilots could easily make a mistake. If they think it might be something else and not a passenger jet, they have to fly to the side of the plane and make visual contact with passengers. If they don't see anyone, they have a GO to shoot it down. It wouldn't be the first case. And it goes with a witness reports about second fighter next to the plane.

We'll have to wait for the official investigation and for the recordings from the black box to know what happened there.

originally posted by: Agent_USA_Supporter
a reply to: clay2 baraka

He is right about that the area is indeed a war zone so how why wasn't the airliner have being aware of that?

wrong wrong wrong.. the pilot was diverted from the safe southern route and into over the dangerous route..

Look at the previous routes and look at the malaysian airlines route after they are ordered to divert



the creator of this false flag is Ukraine Kiev Junta backed by CIA.. they divert this plane over danger area, shot it down using their missile and accuse the rebel and russian as the culprit..

and in other part of the world , Israeli ground forces moving into Gaza" -while the world is looking the other way ????

This has the hallmarks of a false flag. Israel is exploiting the incident to reduce exposure of their invasion of Gaza. It may well be that Ukraine organized this operation with Mossad operatives since they already in ukraine along with CIA.

Dont you remember the mossad agents dancing and clapping in USA when they saw Twin Tower goes boom ? totally CIA/Mossad false-flag that 9-11.. and if these evil guys dont care about killing their own civilians, why should they care about other nation's ?

in this video youtu.be... eyewitness said three explosions after the first he climbed to the roof and saw the plane falling , two paratroopers and also removes the fighter. it could be the only plane Kiev junta and as I said earlier there is no crime for which they are not able to because it is a war aliens Iberians against earthlings - goyims

originally posted by: Psynic
What's happened to CNN?

My TV has locked up with a LIVE shot of Tony AButt captioned: "This is not an accident, it's a crime".

this Tony Abutt guy really an embarassment to australia, he is the same with those Abe guy who kowtow to USA .. Australian and Japan participate in sanctioning Russia... What the heck ? why would these nations meekly do everything the US orders them to do ?

also this tony abutt guy also part of the disinformation when he said MH370 fell west of aussie.. totally criminal

I believe the plane was hijacked then fighters escorting another plane left escort to control the situation they ordered the plane diverted or would be shot down then the plane was damaged from within...

This was in the David Icke Headlines this morning!



This is what I said yesterday:

The Ukraine now it has been taken over by the EU, US and NATO with Israel involved too are frothing at the bit to get Russia to bite to create a major conflict right?!
And you know they are going to pin this on Russia right?
Well when during the time that the Malaysian Airlines MH-370 disappeared (Still not found) there were reports of a soon to be scrapped Malaysian Airlines 777 being bought from Kuwait, the numbers erased and it was shipped to France then later in 2013 ended up in a Hanger in Tel Aviv, Israel.
MH-370 has still not been found and the conspiracy circles are saying it was landed at Diego Garcia base and the passengers offloaded including the 20 Freescale employees!
My theory is, what if some of the people on MH-370 were put on this flight that was actually the plane that was in Tel Aviv then blown up to blame Russia to get into a major conflict????!!!

Some of us are on the same page!

Yes this does look to obvious. This looks like a False Flag. Now, if the passport story is correct then it is a good bet this is what I think it is! A False Flag to get to war with Russia!

Remember the Terrorist passport found at ground zero by the FBI on 9/11 after the 2 towers collapsed? It's the same scenario here because any idiot knows that 9/11 was a False Flag!

This flight crash looks like a False Flag, smells like a False Flag.

I think it's a False Flag!

Just like the Mossad code!

"By Way Of Deception Thou Shalt Do War"

Judging by several of those comments whom suggested that Malaysia Airlines was shoot down by Russia or the separatists.

Seems like your following what Sen John McCain stated, i assume you must be excited on starting a war with Russia. Yet again there hasn't being any evidence that Russia is behind this judging the facts that the Ukrainian have being experiencing a mass loss over the past two weeks to the fighters in the east.

originally posted by: milomilo
based on the captured transcript from the 'spanish' air traffic controller, it seem the ukrainian intentionally redirect the malaysian airline flight path and then vector Sukhoi SU 27 to force it down by violence.

immediatly the western mass media , without any shred of fact/evidence , point fingers to russia and rebels. Even the far away australian PM said in press conference he blamed the russians. Im really ashamed why australian goverment choose to submit itself under USA orders and spout embarrasing statements.. Australian shoulb be ashamed for their elected goverment behaviour..

everything indicates a joint false flag indication between CIA and Kiev goverment. People who follow the events in ukraine noticed this is not coincidence.

Right now you can expect the internet to be flooded with the same meme blaming putin and demonising putin and russia again. just like before where every NSA/CIA paid shills putting "putin = hitler meme" all across the internet and repeated by the mass media too

so, if you see anyone VEHEMENTLY blaming russia and rebels and Always supporting US goverment line, then you can be sure he is a paid shill or Useful Idiots deluded by the US propaganda

Ok I could not possibly conceive such a thing happening.

My first question when reading those "transcripts" were (Why is a spanish air traffic controller in Kiev ATC Center?) I know someone who has visited the center, and they met all the controllers and they were all local nationals.

Secondly, we are not trained as controllers to just blindly follow orders...also it is not in our nature. We have to constantly question our own decisions and the suggestions/decisions of other controllers and constantly adjust our "plan/actions" based on real time external factors. We do this in the interest of AIRCRAFT SAFETY which is every controllers utmost duty priority.

3rdly, one of the transcripts mentions the ATC Control Tower. The facility that was working this aircraft at the time of the incident was a Radar facility not at Tower.

Lastly, as a controller myself, the transcripts just dont feel genuine when I read them. There is nothing about them that makes me believe for one second that they are authentic and actually comming from a source that is 1. An air traffic controller and 2. Someone that has first hand knowledge of the event.

I would suggest that you all consider the above when considering the reports and transcripts posted from that source.

-atcgod

originally posted by: bates
I'm not going to believe a word of anything I hear about this.

Already smells of something very suspicious.

We're going to be fed some complete utter bull#e that is nothing but a test to see what the gullible public are willing to lap up.

Who is seriously going to believe that a commercial aircraft was accidentally shot down by the sophisticated Russian air defenses?

Why not? The "sophisticated" Russian air defences have done this before you know. Add to that the (bow deleted) claim by the rebels to have # down an aircraft and it seems likely it was them, plus the fact they have taken control of the black boxes and handed them over to Moscow.

Is anyone else experiencing a shutdown of news from CNN?

They are broadcasting a still shot.

Seems very odd?