Malaysian 777 Passenger Airline Shot Down Over Eastern Ukraine

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: spy66

How do we know what type of missile was used?

At the russian debreif they said the Su-25 used R-60 missiles.

Did they say the SU-25 used those missiles in the context they are capable or did they state that was the missile that was used?

They said that the R-60 is the air to air missile the Ukrainian SU would be armed With. They didnt say that the Su-25 launched the R-60 towareds the Mh17.

If the SU-25 was the Source that brought Down MH17 is pure speculation. In the debriefe russia said that the New mark that showed up had SU-25 caracteristics. The mark had no secondary identification markings mounted which was typical for a military Aircraft.

a reply to: spy66

Fair enough.

Thanks for the clarification.

originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: spy66

How do we know what type of missile was used?

At the russian debreif they said the Su-25 used R-60 missiles.

Did they say the SU-25 used those missiles in the context they are capable or did they state that was the missile that was used?

They said that the R-60 is the air to air missile the Ukrainian SU would be armed With. They didnt say that the Su-25 launched the R-60 towareds the Mh17.

If the SU-25 was the Source that brought Down MH17 is pure speculation. In the debriefe russia said that the New mark that showed up had SU-25 caracteristics. The mark had no secondary identification markings mounted which was typical for a military Aircraft.

So your interpretation was that it showed on the radar but the Russian general just mentioned it in passing and didnt intend for us to believe it shot down the aircraft? Well that doesnt make much sense why mention it at all than?

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: spy66

How do we know what type of missile was used?

At the russian debreif they said the Su-25 used R-60 missiles.

Did they say the SU-25 used those missiles in the context they are capable or did they state that was the missile that was used?

They said that the R-60 is the air to air missile the Ukrainian SU would be armed With. They didnt say that the Su-25 launched the R-60 towareds the Mh17.

If the SU-25 was the Source that brought Down MH17 is pure speculation. In the debriefe russia said that the New mark that showed up had SU-25 caracteristics. The mark had no secondary identification markings mounted which was typical for a military Aircraft.

So your interpretation was that it showed on the radar but the Russian general just mentioned it in passing and didnt intend for us to believe it shot down the aircraft? Well that doesnt make much sense why mention it at all than?

The SU showed up on radar right by the MH17 mark when it was freefalling towards the ground, and he was telling us what we were lokking at in details. Why shouldnt he have mentioned it?

What if he didnt mention it. You would have blaimed him for trying to cover something up wouldnt you?

Are there any veeery good geolocation people?

Here's the video, it is claimed that infrared satellite caught the BUK missile trail.
www.youtube.com...

I'm trying to look through google maps to see similar location...

Could be one of the fake-exchange between russian and ukrainian people, but whatever.

I guess it is too difficult to find such a small location on map.

Another silly thing, I THINK, is that satellite here moves from east to west.

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: Psynic

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: GargIndia
a reply to: yuppa

Su-25 is similar to Mig-27, another Soviet bomber.

The plane is designed for low level penetration. But keep in mind that Mig-27 can fly up to 13000 meters.

The speed and height attained by the aircraft depends on a lot of factors - called mission profile in air force.

An SU 25 and a mig 27 are not the same aircraft wow really? Look saying there the same is like saying an a 10 is the same as an f15. Wow you have like zero knowledge of aircraft dont you? The SU 25 is a ground attack aircraft used for fire support it flies low heavily armed. It has armor to withstand gunfire titanium to be exact the reason it cant fly very high either its heavy. The mig 27 is an attack aircraft meaning its made to shoot down other jets it doesnt have armor. its designed to be light and fast and could easily shoot down a frogfoot or SU 25 because su 25s arent made to down other aircraft. Very similar to an A10 trying to dogfight an F15 last about 5 seconds.

GargIndia didn't say they were the same aircraft. He said they are similar, and he is correct.

You seem to be confusing the Mig27, which like the SU25 is a ground attack A/C., with the SU27 which would be comparable to the F15 you mentioned.

And btw, the Ukrainians fly the SU27 too, and it's service ceiling is some thing like 60,000'.

Hes comparing an SU 25 with a mig 27 to entirely different aircraft if you think there the same your wrong to.

His comparison of a Mig27 to an Su25 is much, MUCH closer to the TRUTH than your comparison of an A-10 Warthog to an F-15 Eagle.

originally posted by: Psynic

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: Psynic

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: GargIndia
a reply to: yuppa

Su-25 is similar to Mig-27, another Soviet bomber.

The plane is designed for low level penetration. But keep in mind that Mig-27 can fly up to 13000 meters.

The speed and height attained by the aircraft depends on a lot of factors - called mission profile in air force.

An SU 25 and a mig 27 are not the same aircraft wow really? Look saying there the same is like saying an a 10 is the same as an f15. Wow you have like zero knowledge of aircraft dont you? The SU 25 is a ground attack aircraft used for fire support it flies low heavily armed. It has armor to withstand gunfire titanium to be exact the reason it cant fly very high either its heavy. The mig 27 is an attack aircraft meaning its made to shoot down other jets it doesnt have armor. its designed to be light and fast and could easily shoot down a frogfoot or SU 25 because su 25s arent made to down other aircraft. Very similar to an A10 trying to dogfight an F15 last about 5 seconds.

GargIndia didn't say they were the same aircraft. He said they are similar, and he is correct.

You seem to be confusing the Mig27, which like the SU25 is a ground attack A/C., with the SU27 which would be comparable to the F15 you mentioned.

And btw, the Ukrainians fly the SU27 too, and it's service ceiling is some thing like 60,000'.

Hes comparing an SU 25 with a mig 27 to entirely different aircraft if you think there the same your wrong to.

His comparison of a Mig27 to an Su25 is much, MUCH closer to the TRUTH than your comparison of an A-10 Warthog to an F-15 Eagle.

Well no not really su 25 is the Russian version of an A 10 though not as capable i will say. But it has titanium armor and has the same role. as far as the f15 its a multirole fighter would you preferred the f14 but here were just playing semantics up the inferiority of Russian migs.

well this is a moot point. turns out the government collapsed today. Just as expected because they arelike iraq inthe way they get along with each other.

originally posted by: whitepanther999
Are there any veeery good geolocation people?

Here's the video, it is claimed that infrared satellite caught the BUK missile trail.
www.youtube.com...

I'm trying to look through google maps to see similar location...

Could be one of the fake-exchange between russian and ukrainian people, but whatever.

I guess it is too difficult to find such a small location on map.

Another silly thing, I THINK, is that satellite here moves from east to west.

According to the US, the missile was launched from Snizhne.

originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: whitepanther999
Are there any veeery good geolocation people?

Here's the video, it is claimed that infrared satellite caught the BUK missile trail.
www.youtube.com...

I'm trying to look through google maps to see similar location...

Could be one of the fake-exchange between russian and ukrainian people, but whatever.

I guess it is too difficult to find such a small location on map.

Another silly thing, I THINK, is that satellite here moves from east to west.

According to the US, the missile was launched from Snizhne.

Yeah heres the cnn view.

twitter.com...

No I give up on this, it's the job of the uploader to provide the coordinates.

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: whitepanther999
Are there any veeery good geolocation people?

Here's the video, it is claimed that infrared satellite caught the BUK missile trail.
www.youtube.com...

I'm trying to look through google maps to see similar location...

Could be one of the fake-exchange between russian and ukrainian people, but whatever.

I guess it is too difficult to find such a small location on map.

Another silly thing, I THINK, is that satellite here moves from east to west.

According to the US, the missile was launched from Snizhne.

Yeah heres the cnn view.

twitter.com...

I have just heard that this satellite video is from a Russian satellite taken on the 23.

Do you have anything on who published this?

a reply to: spy66

The uploader claims that it is constantly reuploaded because of being deleted.

I guess it's nothing to pay attention to, some annoying random throwing in, just for the sake of it.

The suspicious thing is that he doesn't provide even the name of the satellite, so...

Both Russian and Ukrainians are pretty much against each other right now, making fun, insulting, war-crying, and they use any random thing on the internet to throw at each other. In real life, it's quite worse. Mostly young people though, who are violent, having found the motives.

I'm wondering if THAT was the goal of whoever started all this.

In real life Ukrainian force consists of citizens from several European nations.

So it is very much turning into EU/Russia war - which is closer to a world war.

The only thing remaining is a nuclear exchange.

All this for EU expansion?

originally posted by: whitepanther999
a reply to: spy66

The uploader claims that it is constantly reuploaded because of being deleted.

I guess it's nothing to pay attention to, some annoying random throwing in, just for the sake of it.

The suspicious thing is that he doesn't provide even the name of the satellite, so...

Both Russian and Ukrainians are pretty much against each other right now, making fun, insulting, war-crying, and they use any random thing on the internet to throw at each other. In real life, it's quite worse. Mostly young people though, who are violent, having found the motives.

I'm wondering if THAT was the goal of whoever started all this.

Right, i dont think The US would up loade it to YouTube before haveing a press conference of what we are looking at. They would have wanted to own this as their evidence.

The dominoes are falling fast. The pretext of war is getting in place.

It is unlikely Russia will cave in. This will only get worse. Kiev may feel safe today but I can assure this will be only a fleeting feeling.

Ukraine may shout but its claim over Crimea and Donbas is weak. The borders at the time of USSR breakup were very much artificial. As expected the borders had to be settled by force. However the entry of EU/USA in this dispute will make things significantly worse.

I see hundred of thousands dead in Kiev. This is what this strife will ultimately get to.

a reply to: Ploutonas

As I said in that comment, the case was closed from that day and look what happens, now KIEV government falls, they going for ellections and also the nazi (reputation) supporters, quitted the Kiev government. Anyway, a new airplane crashed... for those who love the matrix topics (its a repeat event, to drain some energy). A month ago we had many trains, now we have airplanes.

Got this off the PPRUNE Aviation site if you haven't seen it yet. There are pages of pics, good ones on page 2..: secure.flickr.com...

Many more on page 3, & more added on page 4...That's as far as I've gotten so far, I'm still going through them.....

originally posted by: GargIndia
In real life Ukrainian force consists of citizens from several European nations.

So it is very much turning into EU/Russia war - which is closer to a world war.

The only thing remaining is a nuclear exchange.

All this for EU expansion?

Yeah sure there is the west cant even decide if they want to give military support. Theirs no european troops on the ground in Ukraine reporters would notice. See this is fantasies cooked up so Putin can make it look like the whole world is against the poor Russians. It helps condone his actions like crack down on the press and erosion of Russians citizens rights. He has a surprise coming though the rich people in Russia arent happy with him or his policies and theyll find a way to solve it sooner or later. Now the only way this could go nuclear is if Russia was stupid enough to launch nukes not going to happen. Just like he isnt stupid and knows in a direct confrontation with the west hed lose. Thus why hes played the game with hide the Russian troops like in Crimea and Ukraine. Now in Ukraine the masks coming off and theirs little to no doubt left hes sent people and arms into Ukraine.

This shoot down just focused world attention to his actions in Ukraine. Now the UN has to be involved where before they were trying there best to ignore Ukraine. Same with EU and US they were happy with condemning putins actions and taking minor steps in Ukraine. Looks like now they have to admit Putin isjust more than involved but is the cause of unrest. This is a game changer and as such guarantee Ukraine will get some cool new toys to battle the Russians.

a reply to: dragonridr

Theirs no european troops on the ground in Ukraine reporters would notice.

I dont think so. Western media dont cover US/NATO covert opperations. Without the consent of Pentagon.

To us it seams like the US/NATO are not involded at all, Just Russia. The US/NATO acts as if they are 100% neutral.

The Public dont evien realice that they have picked a side. They two think they are 100% neutral when they condemn Putin. We all think Putin is the bad sheep. That is because, that is what Our western media tell us. Our media is all one sided, Our media is far away from being neutral.

- Why arent Our media pushing the US for the evidence that the US claim to have?
People who condemn Russia are doing it out of thin air. They are condemning Putin for no reason at all. We can not claim that Russia is guilty With out evidence. That is common sense.

They have already stated that they have a spy satellite present so its not like its a Secret. Russia New more about the US satellite than any of us did. Russia described it With details at the briefing.