Malaysian 777 Passenger Airline Shot Down Over Eastern Ukraine

a reply to: Zaphod58

But a plane was shot from an altitude beyond the reach of MANPADS on July 14, indicating that no altitude was safe.

This is criminal neglience from all responsible parties.

a reply to: RoScoLaz4

Exactly.

according to the BBCat 4pm today :

Ukraine produced what it said was a recording of another intercepted call between rebels (in Russian) saying Moscow had given orders not to hand the "black boxes" to international monitors. The authenticity of the tape could not be confirmed

www.bbc.co.uk...

www.youtube.com...

snoopyuk

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: moobie

This route is the standard route they would fly over the region. I don't have exact numbers, but I'm betting it'sa pretty good bit of difference in cost.

Judging from the ten previous flights it wasn't the standard route. Normally they would stay south of the particular region.

This has been pointed out before, even very recently.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Rosinitiate

They made the decision based on what the ICAO told them, which was that it was safe above 31,000 feet.

True but any airline can determine their own risk and chose to avoid the area. In most cases, just about all airlines would simply avoid the area. If this means and increase in fuel costs they would simply offset the Q tax into the fare basis and the customer wouldn't really know unless competitors were choosing to fly over Ukraine and keep their fares low forcing Malaysia to do the same. Beyond price parity, there was absolutely no reason to fly directly over that area regardless of the advice from ICAO.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: generik

The airlines had the choice of not flying through there, regardless of that. They chose to anyway. Just because airspace is open doesn't mean you have to go through it.

oh i agree with that whole heatedly. they do share an almost equal amount of guilt in this. but if the ICAO had of shut down that airspace they wouldn't have been able to make that error. personally i hope the passenger's families sue the heck out of the airline for this (not sure you can sue the ICAO). and just think their insurance probably has a war zone rider, which would mean it would come out of the airline's pockets.

I am still curious as to why Ukraine forces have SAM's deployed when the self defence forces have no airplanes.

I am also curious as to why their jet fighters have AA missiles attached when the self defence forces have no airplanes and Russia is not attacking them in the air.

Anybody got a good explination?

a reply to: moobie

Because they are backed by Russia and they have tons of em?

You don't build up your defense while they are attacking, you do this beforehand if you are able. Just precautions.

originally posted by: 0bservant
Quick! Blame Ukraine and invade while the public is *will be* in rage mode!
What sort of country would shoot 295 innocent people out of the sky

I hope some good comes from this and we get closer to finding that other 777.

The same argument goes for the rebels and Russia. Why would they in their right mind shoot down such a plane on purpose. Unless it was a stupid mistake, the side with the most motive would be Ukraine or the West to frame Russia.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Point taken! I am talking about just word of mouth.

originally posted by: DaFunk
a reply to: moobie

Because they are backed by Russia and they have tons of em?

Can you show me the airplanes the self defences forces have in the air that are backed by Russia?


Remember these people had to fix a WW2 TANK MEMORIAL into moving condition for ground weapons.

Humans are constantly lulled into a false sense of security. it's often only using hind sight that the sense of security is seen as flawed.

a reply to: DaFunk

The airline threat assessment comes from the ICAO and other agencies. It takes a lot longer than three days for that word to spread.

Based on the best information they had, on that day, the airspace was safe over 31,000 feet.

They had no way to know if those missiles could even reach that high until they got an updated threat assessment.

You seem to think that the airlines and their oversight can move at lightning speed. Even for something like this, a week would be fast.

originally posted by: moobie

originally posted by: DaFunk
a reply to: moobie

Because they are backed by Russia and they have tons of em?

Can you show me the airplanes the self defences forces have in the air that are backed by Russia?


Remember these people had to fix a WW2 TANK MEMORIAL into moving condition for ground weapons.

The seperatists are backed by Russia, and Russia has planes, is what I said.

originally posted by: snoopyuk
according to the BBCat 4pm today :

Ukraine produced what it said was a recording of another intercepted call between rebels (in Russian) saying Moscow had given orders not to hand the "black boxes" to international monitors. The authenticity of the tape could not be confirmed

www.bbc.co.uk...

www.youtube.com...

snoopyuk

This is getting laughable now.

Next Ukraine will play dinner conversation of every Russian family.

originally posted by: DaFunk

originally posted by: moobie

originally posted by: DaFunk
a reply to: moobie

Because they are backed by Russia and they have tons of em?

Can you show me the airplanes the self defences forces have in the air that are backed by Russia?


Remember these people had to fix a WW2 TANK MEMORIAL into moving condition for ground weapons.

The seperatists are backed by Russia, and Russia has planes, is what I said.

And I wanted to see what planes they are encountering in the air.

Can you show me some?

a reply to: Zaphod58

I don't buy that.

a reply to: Rosinitiate

At least five airlines were recently caught flying over the area after saying they wouldn't anymore.

a reply to: DaFunk

Ok, but you not buying it doesn't make it any less true.

originally posted by: Flatcoat
a reply to: milomilo

I'm actually a little surprised at my own PM Abbot, flappin' his yap like a mongrel dog with no proof of anything yet. Someone should neuter him, I hear that quiets them down a bit.

Haha, Best post ever, in my opinion; however, I would have used 'rabid' instead of 'mongrel'
All of the heads of country need to take a huge step back and wait for the independent investigations to be completed. I certainly have no idea who - if anyone (seeing there is not yet PROOF of what brought the plane down) - should cop the blame for this, but it certainly looks suss when the reaction from the west is so fast and furious, doesn't it?