Malaysian 777 Passenger Airline Shot Down Over Eastern Ukraine

I don't know if this was mentioned yet, I didn't see it anyway.

On July 14 an Ukrainian Antonov was shot down flying in the same general area,

A Ukrainian transport plane was shot down Monday by a rocket that Kiev's government contends appeared to be coming from Russia. The plane was about four miles high over eastern Ukraine's Luhansk region near the Russian border, where the Ukrainian military has been battling pro-Russian separatists, officials said.

edition.cnn.com...

Before july 14, 2 more planes were downed but,

There's a "but" that makes these two cases very distinct from MH17, though — the AN-30 and ILl-6 were shot down by MANPADS, which stands for man-portable air-defense systems, a small missile launcher you carry on your shoulder. It can only fire to an altitude of about 11,500 feet, but MH17 was flying at 33,000 feet. That's way, way outside of the range of shoulder-fired MANPADS missiles. That's why, at first, people were wondering if rebels even had the capability to shoot down a high-flying commercial airliner like MH17.

But it turns out that it was already clear that at least one plane flying above the reach of MANPADS was shot down in the area on Monday, July 14.

But there was another incident just on Monday, July 14, that did not get very much attention at the time. That day, over eastern Ukraine, an Antonov AN-26 Ukrainian military transport plane was hit by a missile while flying over eastern Ukraine — at 21,000 feet altitude. That's far beyond the range of a shoulder-fired system like the MANPADS.

www.vox.com...

So the Ukrainians knew that the area wasn't safe at any altitude, and everybody involved including the pilot of MH17 should have known that. Why did MH17 still fly there?

originally posted by: Flatcoat

originally posted by: roadgravel

originally posted by: Flatcoat

originally posted by: roadgravel
More along the thought of targeting a commercial plane to demonstrate control over the area?

If the recording is true, they thought it was a military transport. To bad the NSA, etal won't provide back up or deny the recording.

Well, I don't like to admit this, seeing as how there's no proof of anything yet, but I'm leaning more towards some loony in the Ukraine government trying to evoke a world response.

That's might be a reasonable theory given the advantage in the fight isn't moving either way at this point.

IMHO you only have to take a look around and see what's happening. Suddenly the whole world is hatin' on Putin and the rebels. This must be like Christmas for the guys in Kiev. And even if the Ukrainians had nothing to do with it, you can bet your arse there's quite a few of them sitting around thinking "Wow!! Why didn't we think of this!"

the eiree speed of how western leaders and western media instantly pounce on russia and putin while disregarding any possibilities of Kiev involvement , should be a very CLEAR sign that something is going on behind closed doors in LANGLEY..

This never happened before where US directly accused russia before presenting evidence .. it's like the current US administration reallly hot for the WORLD WAR 3 and the Russian really trying hard to reason with a mad dog wanting to bite it's leg..

pray the uncontrollable Elites in USA not successfull in pushing their intention to create another WORLD WAR , which will be a NUCLEAR war..

a reply to: milomilo

I'm actually a little surprised at my own PM Abbot, flappin' his yap like a mongrel dog with no proof of anything yet. Someone should neuter him, I hear that quiets them down a bit.

originally posted by: angelchemuel
a reply to: bigfoot007

...and that is why I suggested that America is behind all this.....Malayan airlines were already on their knees when the other malayan flight 'disappeared'. But besides that we have the TPP....which America is having HUGE problems getting signed, sealed and delivered ON THEIR terms. Malayan Airlines is THE airline in Malaya.........wouldn't an american airline love to get all that airspace?......think The Aviator....Howard Hughes and how PanAm tried putting TransWorld Airlines...TWA out of business.

Curious too how Obamamama has stepped back over this saying it's an European problem.....more like making the 'arrows' and letting Europe fire them for their benefit if you ask me.

But like I said...I'm not taking sides...

I agree on all counts, there are some interesting issues you have mentioned, all worthy of great discussion, but lets keep this thread on the topic of MH17

I think we can all agree that this was not a case of mistaken identity, but a deliberate act. What for? who knows? Well at least one person knows

a reply to: milomilo


Not sure if it would be a nuclear war, the scenarios for this have all been played out during the cold war. No one wins.

I think we can all agree that this was not a case of mistaken identity, but a deliberate act

At this point I would not say that is true. It could be a deliberate act to shoot down a plane based on mistaken identification of a plane in war.

Latest developments

Access is still denied to the OSCE to the area of the crash and debris from the plane for investigation.
Bodies have been collected and brought to Torez in eastern Ukraine.
The OSCE has been able see the bodies, there are 192 bodies and 8 bodie parts loaded onto a train which has been sealed.
When the train leaves and destination is yet unknown, it has been said they will be transported to Ilovaisk, a place more east and close to the russian border.

Atleast one of the two blackboxes has been found, a confirmation of this can be seen in the video below.



Unconfirmed reports say that the two black boxes were already found on the day of the crash so let's hope they are not wiped clean if this turns out to be true.

I was wondering, when a plane flies into Ukrainian territory, is there always contact with air traffic control?

It would appear that UK / FR and Germany are thinking about imposing more sanctions on Russia, Putin must be shaking in his boots /end sarcasm.

This must have TPTB cheering and opening the Champagne. Isolate Russia.

Problem with this, does Russia really need the west? It has a lot of its own natural resources and could probably survive as its own right.

originally posted by: DaFunk
I was wondering, when a plane flies into Ukrainian territory, is there always contact with air traffic control?

Yes, there should be a standard handover procedure as one leaves an airspace to go into the next.
Sometimes there is a slight radio silence as frequency can change

So why did they choose to fly over the active warzone when ten previous flights stayed well to the south of the area?

Weather? I'm sure that anyone who claims they chose to fly over the war zone because of weather should be able to back this up with data.

Reminder, 3 days before another plane was shot over the area, and it was flying above the range of MANPADS.

If the rebels are so innocent in this, why are they locking down and destroying the accident scene?

a reply to: bigfoot007

The dutch PM has urged Putin to use his influence to get the separatists to cooperate with OSCE.
I do not think there will be sanction unless this is indeed linked to Russia.
Of that we have yet to be sure, and of cource if MH17 was indeed hit by a rocket.
If only OSCE were able to investigate without separatists blocking them from doing their work.

a reply to: DaFunk

Yes, that is a question which has yet to be answered

a reply to: DaFunk

There were 2 other planes within 16 miles at the time. They were not the only plane in the area that day.

a reply to: bigfoot007

So you would say there was contact and that the Ukrainian air traffic controllers and the pilots of the plane were all aware that they were going to fly over the warzone?

a reply to: roadgravel

Which flights were that?

I just cannot understand how any plane would fly in the area when it became clear on July 14 that planes were being shot down from higher altitudes. I mean WTF?

originally posted by: roadgravel
If the rebels are so innocent in this, why are they locking down and destroying the accident scene?

The rebels are handling the situation with their resources amid fighting that is still raging in the area. How do you suppose rebels can handle this any better?

The rebels do not trust Europeans as they are shooting them down. Why will they suddenly change and start trusting them now?

I see nothing wrong with the behavior of rebels and everything wrong with Kiev. Kiev should have declared immediate ceasefire so that the situation on the ground could be handled. How can it be handled with the guns booming in the background.

a reply to: DaFunk


A Singapore and AirIndia. The air space was not closed at that height.

a reply to: DaFunk

It takes longer than three days for word to get spread, and for an agency like ICAO to act. On the day of the shootdown alone over fifty flights operated over the Ukraine, and all told several hundred went over just in those three days.