Malaysian 777 Passenger Airline Shot Down Over Eastern Ukraine

originally posted by: roadgravel
a reply to: Xcathdra

Yup, Pro Russians are treating the bodies with respect - /end sarcasm.

These rebels are in real need of a PR team and Human Resource department. They are not helping their own cause.

To bad Goebbels is not available for them to use. They seem to be using his approach but not quite getting the technique right.

I still dont understand why the rebels wont allow access to the scene. It makes no sense aside from the looting / coverup.

originally posted by: NickDC202

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: NickDC202

originally posted by: Adaluncatif
Ask yourself this question: Do I trust the media and government?

When you have two nations (United States & Russia) with essentially State-run media, it is incredibly difficult to decipher the facts...

It is astonishing the way MA 17 is being covered by the media; I may not know all the evidence but I believe there are key questions that need to be answered... Frankly I find the media and US & Russian governments declaration of "this is what happened" before any investigation has begun and any data analyzed to be highly suspect and very troubling.

i have to ask -
How is the MSM in the US state run? I ask because I see people make this claim yet they can never support it with facts. Where as the Russia media is listed as state controlled.

The answer to your question would cause thread drift if I post it here, however I promise to write up what I anticipate will be a lengthy, thoughtful response and private message it to you if that is ok. :-)

Sure.. It would be appreciated.

I just want to throw something out there:

1: If we look back at history, Russia has claimed its reasons as to further the great of the Russian Motherland, All Russian presidents have had knowledge of the activities being carried out.
2: If the USA carried this out (or had a helping hand), then you can bet your bottom dollar that this has nothing to do with the good of the USA or the western world. More likely to line someone's pockets or for some other nefarious reason. There are departments within the US system that not even the NSA know about.

a reply to: bigfoot007

interesting observation.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Let's see how it develops into tomorrow, but i don't think it will be different from yesterday and today.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: NickDC202
It is troubling that you've reached such adamant conclusions based only on a few minutes of video footage and some photos.

Its troubeling that you dont seem to be aware that the rebels have held the crash site for more than 2 days now without allowing access to it. Thats not from a few minutes of videos, that's from the inspection groups being denied full access.

originally posted by: NickDC202
Frankly I was disturbed that the reporter for ABC's Good Morning America thought it was a good idea to be standing literally in the middle of the wreckage during his live shot; when one is reporting on the neglect of the bodies and the accident site(s) one shouldn't be essentially standing on bodies for his live shot.

I agree - Its even more concerning that rebels will allow media in but not the investigation teams.

originally posted by: NickDC202
None of us know exactly what happened and investigators have just begun to arrive at the site(s), it would be much more prudent to allow them to begin to do their jobs before we the masses of untrained accident investigators determine what happened and posting it here.

They are being denied access to the entire scene. Rebels have been removing items and bodies.

If the Rebels did not do this then there is no reason for them to loot / rummage through the wreckage like vikings attacking a sea front village.

What the world is waiting on is for the rebels to get out of the way to experts can do their job. Apparently the rebels think the PR angle of allowing media into an area where their are still bodies while Russia / Pro Russians use the media coverage to their advantage.

I appreciate your thorough reply.

I think there is a lot of moving parts here and the 24 hour, never-ending news cycle throws a lot of information to the public via traditional methods and social media. One tweet by a reporter with information that is kind of accurate quickly snowballs and is reported across the mainstream media as fact; I'm not suggesting that this has occurred here but it happens consistently and continuously in US media coverage of every other breaking news story. The endless inaccurate reporting throughout breaking news coverage has caused me to take a more cautious approach and gives me the patience to wait and see what the reality is when the dust has an opportunity to settle.

I also keep in mind that on July 3, 1988 the US Navy targeted and "accidentally" shot down Iran Air Flight 655 killing 290 civilians (including 66 children) and note that Iran and the world community did not immediately respond with threats (and implied threats of potential military action) and demands of the United States. The world mourned and investigated before responding.

AstralTrespass, Xcathdra and Psynic

I say this in all respect ......you really need to stop this constant attacking of each other, as well as putting off people from joining this thread, you are very likely to get one of the Mods stepping in and waving their angry stick !! its been several pages now , enough is enough.

it is not good for us or ATS,

Snoopyuk

Mod with angry stick

Enough. Any further posts of a personal nature will be removed and the member post banned.

That's one. We aren't joking. Keep to the topic.

a reply to: Xcathdra

The pro russians actions are further proof that the ethnic russian justification used was without merit.

I don't see how the one excludes the other. Care to expand?

Has anyone thought about the possibility that the AIDS researchers onboard were the reason it got shot down?

a reply to: AstralTrespass

Of course they do, but guess what..... sometimes the forecast is wrong. I've seen winds almost double the forecast, and winds half the forecast. Those forecasts aren't up to the second, so by the time they get up there they've changed. So they change their path to adjust.

You also can't forecast turbulence.

originally posted by: AstralTrespass

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: AstralTrespass

Winds. Planes very very rarely fly their exact course as planned. Turbulence and winds will get them off it.

So you are saying that they don't plan a course based on all data, including weather data available at the time of plotting and stick to that, but that the wind actually pushes them off course like a sailng ship, without them correcting for it getting them on a course 100 miles or so more south?

So Zaphod, have you thought about this?

Also, from your source it seems they took a different course from the plotted course from the get go. Why plot a course if you are not going to follow it from the start.

a reply to: tranquilone666

I didn't want to bring this up again, but remember SwissAir 111, well I lost a good friend on that flight Jonathan Mann, look him up, he was leading WHO AIDS program.

Not saying that this is connected.

Not sure if posted already but here is the passengers manifest of flight MH17

Besides many other deaths complete dutch families murdered on that flight. I hope they nail who ever did it...

Passengers manifest MH17

originally posted by: tranquilone666
Has anyone thought about the possibility that the AIDS researchers onboard were the reason it got shot down?

Doubtful to be honest.

A shoot down would not destroy any breakthroughs on the topic. They have that stuff stored at the labs / etc / peer review.