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Israeli Naval Ship Bombs Palestinian Children on Gaza Beach - Killing Four
page: 29share:
originally posted by: Rosha
Right now, we have a bunch of intellectual, moral and spiritually bankrupt adult children running about thinking they own the world with something in their possession they think is actual power. They have so far had a free reign and have ripped of the fabric off everything and now stand there buck naked, demanding to be declared 'right'. They are stomping about loudly now, demanding all of us surrender to their view or give in to the mono cultured myopic view they have. "Or else!" They can't see how naked they are. Or how aware of their nakedness we are.
A very good description of the Islamic Hamas terrorists - they state that they will destroy Israel, and run around like children, hiding their rocket launchers etc. behind women and children!
Just like bullies they and their supporters whine to anybody that will listen when they are stopped from trying to destroy Israel, like their charter states.
a reply to: hellobruce
Do you believe that Hamas has a realistic capability of destroying Israel?
Serious question.
...when they are stopped from trying to destroy Israel...
Do you believe that Hamas has a realistic capability of destroying Israel?
Serious question.
originally posted by: hellobruce
originally posted by: Rosha
Right now, we have a bunch of intellectual, moral and spiritually bankrupt adult children running about thinking they own the world with something in their possession they think is actual power. They have so far had a free reign and have ripped of the fabric off everything and now stand there buck naked, demanding to be declared 'right'. They are stomping about loudly now, demanding all of us surrender to their view or give in to the mono cultured myopic view they have. "Or else!" They can't see how naked they are. Or how aware of their nakedness we are.
A very good description of the Islamic Hamas terrorists - they state that they will destroy Israel, and run around like children, hiding their rocket launchers etc. behind women and children!
Just like bullies they and their supporters whine to anybody that will listen when they are stopped from trying to destroy Israel, like their charter states.
please quote such "charter states" please
US ‘News’ lying sack of spin warmonger: ‘It’s in the Hamas charter they want to kill all Jews’
www.washingtonsblog.com...
careful what you attempt o justify the slaughter of children with
we are on the internet
it will never go away
edit on Tuepm7b20147America/Chicago26 by Danbones because: (no reason given)
110 people killed in Gaza in 24 hours during razzing of Gaza City, bombings continue in all areas.
Kidnapped teens--> Rockets!!--> Terror TUNNELS!!" -Israel's 2014 massacre justification shift continues.
I can confirm that operation #IronThumb has been operating effectively all day, intercepting and blocking 100% of pro-genocide Zionist twitter trolls.
The Ministry of Health in Gaza reports the following statistics as at 2100 hours on Tuesday July 29, 2014:
Deaths: 1,210
– 287 children,
130 women 18-60 years,
57 persons over 60 years
Injuries: 6,896
– 2,164 children,
1,314 women 18-60 years,
282 over 60 years.
ICU: 121 patients
gaza.scoop.ps...
Not a statistic : terrorized and injured young girl, 9yrs arriving @ Shifa hospital, 30 minutes ago.
On top of the 250K already displaced, 400,000 people are being / have been forcibly removed from their homes in locations around Gaza
www.juancole.com...
Israel has destroyed Gaza's only Power Plant. This deliberate destruction of civilian infrastructure is against international law and the Geneva convention.
We mourn the loss of our friend & colleague, Hashem, killed today by Israeli forces.
dci-palestine.org...
"Lifting the Blockade Isn’t a Hamas Demand — It’s a Human Right" -Mohammed Omer Omer reminds the world that the blockade of Gaza is illegal under international law. www.democracynow.org...
Apparently... "You're not a civilian if you were "part of an election process" that elected Hamas:IDF. Aka: If you cant walk, are injured or sick, or exhausted. You are now an 'enemy combatant'. mondoweiss.net...
Ex-Israeli spy urges Riyadh ( the Saudi's) to join Tel Aviv forces (truth of link between ISIS and Israel begins to slip out)
www.presstv.ir...
So I asked myself Why is 5th floor of this public building being blown apart if underground tunnels is the objective? IDF bombs civilian infrastructure with impunity, hopes we wont notice.
www.bbc.com...
IDF deliberately targets clearly marked UN vehicle killing 3.
Know who else had tunnels? Jewish resisters in the Warsaw ghetto
thiscantbehappening.net...
GAZA: THE IDF EXPLAINS ITSELF
www.youtube.com...=29
Kidnapped teens--> Rockets!!--> Terror TUNNELS!!" -Israel's 2014 massacre justification shift continues.
I can confirm that operation #IronThumb has been operating effectively all day, intercepting and blocking 100% of pro-genocide Zionist twitter trolls.
The Ministry of Health in Gaza reports the following statistics as at 2100 hours on Tuesday July 29, 2014:
Deaths: 1,210
– 287 children,
130 women 18-60 years,
57 persons over 60 years
Injuries: 6,896
– 2,164 children,
1,314 women 18-60 years,
282 over 60 years.
ICU: 121 patients
gaza.scoop.ps...
Not a statistic : terrorized and injured young girl, 9yrs arriving @ Shifa hospital, 30 minutes ago.
On top of the 250K already displaced, 400,000 people are being / have been forcibly removed from their homes in locations around Gaza
www.juancole.com...
Israel has destroyed Gaza's only Power Plant. This deliberate destruction of civilian infrastructure is against international law and the Geneva convention.
We mourn the loss of our friend & colleague, Hashem, killed today by Israeli forces.
dci-palestine.org...
"Lifting the Blockade Isn’t a Hamas Demand — It’s a Human Right" -Mohammed Omer Omer reminds the world that the blockade of Gaza is illegal under international law. www.democracynow.org...
Apparently... "You're not a civilian if you were "part of an election process" that elected Hamas:IDF. Aka: If you cant walk, are injured or sick, or exhausted. You are now an 'enemy combatant'. mondoweiss.net...
Ex-Israeli spy urges Riyadh ( the Saudi's) to join Tel Aviv forces (truth of link between ISIS and Israel begins to slip out)
www.presstv.ir...
So I asked myself Why is 5th floor of this public building being blown apart if underground tunnels is the objective? IDF bombs civilian infrastructure with impunity, hopes we wont notice.
www.bbc.com...
IDF deliberately targets clearly marked UN vehicle killing 3.
Know who else had tunnels? Jewish resisters in the Warsaw ghetto
thiscantbehappening.net...
GAZA: THE IDF EXPLAINS ITSELF
www.youtube.com...=29
edit on 29-7-2014 by Rosha because: (no reason given)
Gaza now 2.07pm AEST wed 30th July
More settler violence against Palestinians in Hebron. Five Palestinians and the international volunteer were arrested by the Israeli police
Free the bubbles palsolidarity.org...
www.youtube.com...
More settler violence against Palestinians in Hebron. Five Palestinians and the international volunteer were arrested by the Israeli police
Free the bubbles palsolidarity.org...
www.youtube.com...
edit on 29-7-2014 by Rosha because: (no reason given)
Day 23 - 1255 killed and 7100 injured in Gaza
Plus the untold number of bodies buried in the rubble of Jabalya and at least 3 other entire towns demolished in Gaza today and those who will die in hospital tonight because of lack of power.
-The IDF is now using a new buzzword " self genocide" to describe this crime against sentience.
Yeah wtf? right.
-Israel bombed Palestine's only electric supply, denying life saving treatment to the ICU and NICU victims of their shells existing in the few hospitals left unbombed that were already suffering no water, sewage or phones - no phones as Israel has...
-...destroyed almost all communications towers, denying more than just the soul surviving contact with the outside world for Doctors, terrified teens, kids and parents right across Gaza but access for journalists and UN and Red Cross/Crescent aka any oversight of their crimes too. As they bus out more journalists and murder the local ones, it's clear to see the agenda and what they are trying so desperately to deny.
Kids are dying so Israel wont look bad on tv.
Deliberately cutting coms and electric is telling though. Israel is obviously struggling with seeing itself in a new light...as we see them..seeing all of itself finally and undeniably. It doesn't like the noise so it is trying to silence it. Kids subjected to the constant and intensifying sound of drones since January know how they feel. Why else bomb towers if tunnels are the objective?
-Over 40% of Gaza is now physically reoccupied as they grab more land, lay more boundaries and get those Gazans too sick to stand or to shell shocked to resist, ready for herding into Egypt. I think very soon it will be renamed, "The Gaza Sliver" and then one day "gone" or " the place the 4th world war began".
-99% of Gaza is now in blackout. Over 3/4 million are in direct firing line of US made weaponry, right now unarmed civilians are being bombed by Marine trained mercenaries, these big brave 'men of honor' are hunting down children with nowhere to run or seek shelter. Pathetic. If they had tunnels to head to, it would only come out on the morning wire after they were killed, that Hamas was using them as 'shields' anyway.
-At dawn Israel shelled another UNRWA school to which people from north Gaza had been told to evacuate to. They killed 19 and injured another 126 refugees - people that used to have homes a week ago. Keep in mind people that cant run from an area in bombardment, are now considered enemy combatants.
Israel gorges on its false sense of security and power as the UN, begs them to stop. Yet still, after all this, they have not broken the Spirit of the Palestinian people or the standing truth they do and will always represent. No bomb can touch that or ever will regardless of outcomes. One day Israel will grow up and realize too late it was the first child they killed did the damage, that caused them to lose this war, not the last one that won it.
People are right you know. This isn't 1933 at all. If it was, the 'good guys' would be airlifting supplies over the heads of IDF soldiers to resupply hospitals and provide fresh food and drinking water to the civilians with generators and batteries and gas masks as they did in the airlift in Germany. Those good guys knew a lying deceiver when they saw him. They knew the words 'not like us' were the hallmark of the wrong and despotic. They, had the balls to stand up to it.
Not a movie. Gaza.
Plus the untold number of bodies buried in the rubble of Jabalya and at least 3 other entire towns demolished in Gaza today and those who will die in hospital tonight because of lack of power.
-The IDF is now using a new buzzword " self genocide" to describe this crime against sentience.
Yeah wtf? right.
-Israel bombed Palestine's only electric supply, denying life saving treatment to the ICU and NICU victims of their shells existing in the few hospitals left unbombed that were already suffering no water, sewage or phones - no phones as Israel has...
-...destroyed almost all communications towers, denying more than just the soul surviving contact with the outside world for Doctors, terrified teens, kids and parents right across Gaza but access for journalists and UN and Red Cross/Crescent aka any oversight of their crimes too. As they bus out more journalists and murder the local ones, it's clear to see the agenda and what they are trying so desperately to deny.
Kids are dying so Israel wont look bad on tv.
Deliberately cutting coms and electric is telling though. Israel is obviously struggling with seeing itself in a new light...as we see them..seeing all of itself finally and undeniably. It doesn't like the noise so it is trying to silence it. Kids subjected to the constant and intensifying sound of drones since January know how they feel. Why else bomb towers if tunnels are the objective?
-Over 40% of Gaza is now physically reoccupied as they grab more land, lay more boundaries and get those Gazans too sick to stand or to shell shocked to resist, ready for herding into Egypt. I think very soon it will be renamed, "The Gaza Sliver" and then one day "gone" or " the place the 4th world war began".
-99% of Gaza is now in blackout. Over 3/4 million are in direct firing line of US made weaponry, right now unarmed civilians are being bombed by Marine trained mercenaries, these big brave 'men of honor' are hunting down children with nowhere to run or seek shelter. Pathetic. If they had tunnels to head to, it would only come out on the morning wire after they were killed, that Hamas was using them as 'shields' anyway.
-At dawn Israel shelled another UNRWA school to which people from north Gaza had been told to evacuate to. They killed 19 and injured another 126 refugees - people that used to have homes a week ago. Keep in mind people that cant run from an area in bombardment, are now considered enemy combatants.
Israel gorges on its false sense of security and power as the UN, begs them to stop. Yet still, after all this, they have not broken the Spirit of the Palestinian people or the standing truth they do and will always represent. No bomb can touch that or ever will regardless of outcomes. One day Israel will grow up and realize too late it was the first child they killed did the damage, that caused them to lose this war, not the last one that won it.
People are right you know. This isn't 1933 at all. If it was, the 'good guys' would be airlifting supplies over the heads of IDF soldiers to resupply hospitals and provide fresh food and drinking water to the civilians with generators and batteries and gas masks as they did in the airlift in Germany. Those good guys knew a lying deceiver when they saw him. They knew the words 'not like us' were the hallmark of the wrong and despotic. They, had the balls to stand up to it.
Not a movie. Gaza.
Extermination is not self defense.
edit on 30-7-2014 by Rosha because: (no reason given)
originally posted by: Rosha
Day 23 - 1255 killed and 7100 injured in Gaza
So when will the Hamas terrorists stop attacking Israel? As soon as they do then the attacks on Hamas terrorists will stop - it is all up to Hamas.
The Egyptians are fed up with the Hamas terrorists
Israel initially countered the rocket fire by telling Hamas, "quiet will be met with quiet", yet Hamas continued to fire rockets. Israel also accepted a ceasefire proposal by Egypt, backed by the Arab League and the Palestinian Authority (PA), which on July 15 was rejected by Hamas. When PA president Mahmoud Abbas pleaded with Hamas to accept the ceasefire, Moussa Abu Marzouk, the deputy head of Hamas' political bureau, stated "what are 200 martyrs compared with lifting the siege?"
www.abc.net.au...
There's a new image doing rounds tonight I forgot to add it in my last.
Please feel free to screenshot or capture, it's quite useful at times.
Please feel free to screenshot or capture, it's quite useful at times.
edit on 30-7-2014 by Rosha because: (no reason given)
a reply to: Rosha
How do you define extermination when the Israelis have the power to kill every man, woman and child within the Gaza strip and have it done in 30 minutes or less like a dominoes pizza delivery, yet a bit over 1,000 are actually dead?
Estimates are less than 1% of the population of Gaza are active members of Hamas. That is the figure I've been seeing here recently. So, that means if Israel succeeds, they have a few thousand more Hamas to kill before they call this over.
If Hamas stopped firing high explosives at Israeli neighborhoods and cities, it may end quicker but they refuse the cease fires and insist they can't stop until every human being in Israel is run out or murdered. Who has the goal of extermination here?
Hamas has the extermination thing written right out in their founding documents as their primary goal in life.
How do you define extermination when the Israelis have the power to kill every man, woman and child within the Gaza strip and have it done in 30 minutes or less like a dominoes pizza delivery, yet a bit over 1,000 are actually dead?
Estimates are less than 1% of the population of Gaza are active members of Hamas. That is the figure I've been seeing here recently. So, that means if Israel succeeds, they have a few thousand more Hamas to kill before they call this over.
If Hamas stopped firing high explosives at Israeli neighborhoods and cities, it may end quicker but they refuse the cease fires and insist they can't stop until every human being in Israel is run out or murdered. Who has the goal of extermination here?
Hamas has the extermination thing written right out in their founding documents as their primary goal in life.
@MrCynic
"How do you define extermination ?"
I'm sorry to those who may be offended at the reality of death for a child in Gaza tonight...
I define it this way:
Extermination is not just a body count. It is a method of murdering.
We treat dogs better than this! There are even ethical standards for rodent killing that aren't being applied in Gaza for human beings today.
Terrorized, cold, hungry, in the dark, and for NO good reason, this poor child's home was bombed by a missile** tossed from a plane, flown by a coward who will never see his face. And I say coward specifically as cowards are those who will not or refuse to stand accountable for the consequences of their actions.
This child, was - exterminated.
"When the Israelis have the power to kill every man, woman and child within the Gaza strip and have it done in 30 minutes or less like a dominoes pizza delivery, yet a bit over 1,000 are actually dead?"
If not for brutal occupation and Iron Dome, Israel would have been forced to face the full reality of the natural consequences of its own choices on equal terms with an internationally socially empowered people. Instead it fights the politically and socially exhausted that it itself dismembered. It is easy to be a bully to prey on 'fish in a bowl'.
It sickens me you think KILLING PEOPLE is even a "power"
It is a WEAKNESS!
That they have not done a total population eradication in Gaza is only testament the sheer will and spirit of the people there , the international oversight that has existed and grows, and an awareness of just what would be coming right back at them if they ever did.
"Estimates are less than 1% of the population of Gaza are active members of Hamas. That is the figure I've been seeing here recently. So, that means if Israel succeeds, they have a few thousand more Hamas to kill before they call this over."
Israel has no right under any law to kill anyone, any more than you or I have. Did you stop to think about that?
Palestinians, do have the right to resist armed occupation, with armed force. Did you stop to think about that either?
"If Hamas stopped firing high explosives at Israeli neighborhoods and cities, it may end quicker but they refuse the cease fires and insist they can't stop until every human being in Israel is run out or murdered."
If Israel ceased to occupy Gaza, returned the human rights, and lived up to its international lawful obligations to them and allowed them to go or build home, there would be no justification for rockets at all.
Right now, as sick and sad as it is, there is.
In the tit for tat, who did what first..we need up back in 48. The decision to bomb and expel, instead of to be thankful and live at peace within.
"Who has the goal of extermination here?"
Well...if its not self defense that Israel is doing, then what else is it?
www.salon.com...
"Israel has illegally occupied the Palestinian territories for many decades, is actively engaging in land theft through illegal settlement expansion, and is imposing a system of apartheid. Under those circumstances, Israel’s very posture is offensive, and it cannot claim to be engaging in “self-defense” against the very people whose land it has illegally usurped."
Extinction of history, identify and self determination, of the essence of free human life, is extinction still.
If you mean the politics..well..go google..truth of that right in front of your face.
" Gaza is a graveyard" they joyfully sing.
electronicintifada.net...
"Hamas has the extermination thing written right out in their founding documents as their primary goal in life."
Really? Have you read the Talmud lately you "goy swine"? Hear of the Lehi cult and their founding of the Knesset?
Expelling and extermination within the Knesset agenda is not even restricted to just Gazans or Arabic people. Hear about the forced sterilizations of anyone ' not like them' that went under cover again when they got found out did you? No? Why not?
www.forbes.com...
Or maybe this?
www.davidsheen.com...
THIS is what Hamas has laid down...THIS is what they are " demanding".
THIS is all it takes to begin a peace process.
mondoweiss.net...
Israel in its incapacity to rationally deal with its own fears and desires, is destroying itself right now, and it is doing so in ways no amount of bombing or control over another group of people is going to make better. Society in Israel is collapsing into an anti social apathy and darkness that will ultimately destroy and de-story them and damage the Jewish identity forever. They are killing themselves as much as they seek to destroy others. The same pattern of Zionist manipulation is repeating again.
Anyone calling themselves a friend to Israel, claiming to care for Israels survival, understands this.
For many, that is why they support Gaza now.
** EDIT : Originally I had written : "one hundred tonne missile": I corrected to only "missile" for context as I know 3.5 ton is the usual house buster used by the IDF in Gaza. And true, when you consider there is the cement..the rubble of a home blasting down, I was forced to concede my ignorance, that indeed, the phrase " one hundred ton" doesn't begin to cut it when you are talking the weight of that debris and missile impact on a baby's head.
"How do you define extermination ?"
I'm sorry to those who may be offended at the reality of death for a child in Gaza tonight...
I define it this way:
Extermination is not just a body count. It is a method of murdering.
We treat dogs better than this! There are even ethical standards for rodent killing that aren't being applied in Gaza for human beings today.
Terrorized, cold, hungry, in the dark, and for NO good reason, this poor child's home was bombed by a missile** tossed from a plane, flown by a coward who will never see his face. And I say coward specifically as cowards are those who will not or refuse to stand accountable for the consequences of their actions.
This child, was - exterminated.
"When the Israelis have the power to kill every man, woman and child within the Gaza strip and have it done in 30 minutes or less like a dominoes pizza delivery, yet a bit over 1,000 are actually dead?"
If not for brutal occupation and Iron Dome, Israel would have been forced to face the full reality of the natural consequences of its own choices on equal terms with an internationally socially empowered people. Instead it fights the politically and socially exhausted that it itself dismembered. It is easy to be a bully to prey on 'fish in a bowl'.
It sickens me you think KILLING PEOPLE is even a "power"
It is a WEAKNESS!
That they have not done a total population eradication in Gaza is only testament the sheer will and spirit of the people there , the international oversight that has existed and grows, and an awareness of just what would be coming right back at them if they ever did.
"Estimates are less than 1% of the population of Gaza are active members of Hamas. That is the figure I've been seeing here recently. So, that means if Israel succeeds, they have a few thousand more Hamas to kill before they call this over."
Israel has no right under any law to kill anyone, any more than you or I have. Did you stop to think about that?
Palestinians, do have the right to resist armed occupation, with armed force. Did you stop to think about that either?
"If Hamas stopped firing high explosives at Israeli neighborhoods and cities, it may end quicker but they refuse the cease fires and insist they can't stop until every human being in Israel is run out or murdered."
If Israel ceased to occupy Gaza, returned the human rights, and lived up to its international lawful obligations to them and allowed them to go or build home, there would be no justification for rockets at all.
Right now, as sick and sad as it is, there is.
In the tit for tat, who did what first..we need up back in 48. The decision to bomb and expel, instead of to be thankful and live at peace within.
"Who has the goal of extermination here?"
Well...if its not self defense that Israel is doing, then what else is it?
www.salon.com...
"Israel has illegally occupied the Palestinian territories for many decades, is actively engaging in land theft through illegal settlement expansion, and is imposing a system of apartheid. Under those circumstances, Israel’s very posture is offensive, and it cannot claim to be engaging in “self-defense” against the very people whose land it has illegally usurped."
Extinction of history, identify and self determination, of the essence of free human life, is extinction still.
If you mean the politics..well..go google..truth of that right in front of your face.
" Gaza is a graveyard" they joyfully sing.
electronicintifada.net...
"Hamas has the extermination thing written right out in their founding documents as their primary goal in life."
Really? Have you read the Talmud lately you "goy swine"? Hear of the Lehi cult and their founding of the Knesset?
Expelling and extermination within the Knesset agenda is not even restricted to just Gazans or Arabic people. Hear about the forced sterilizations of anyone ' not like them' that went under cover again when they got found out did you? No? Why not?
www.forbes.com...
Or maybe this?
www.davidsheen.com...
THIS is what Hamas has laid down...THIS is what they are " demanding".
THIS is all it takes to begin a peace process.
mondoweiss.net...
Israel in its incapacity to rationally deal with its own fears and desires, is destroying itself right now, and it is doing so in ways no amount of bombing or control over another group of people is going to make better. Society in Israel is collapsing into an anti social apathy and darkness that will ultimately destroy and de-story them and damage the Jewish identity forever. They are killing themselves as much as they seek to destroy others. The same pattern of Zionist manipulation is repeating again.
Anyone calling themselves a friend to Israel, claiming to care for Israels survival, understands this.
For many, that is why they support Gaza now.
** EDIT : Originally I had written : "one hundred tonne missile": I corrected to only "missile" for context as I know 3.5 ton is the usual house buster used by the IDF in Gaza. And true, when you consider there is the cement..the rubble of a home blasting down, I was forced to concede my ignorance, that indeed, the phrase " one hundred ton" doesn't begin to cut it when you are talking the weight of that debris and missile impact on a baby's head.
edit on 30-7-2014 by Rosha because: (no reason given)
a reply to: Rosha
Is the extreme photos of death among children necessary to make your point? If you have a personal and direct stake in the topic I won't debate you on it. Let me know if that is the case. It tends to lead passions too high to remain friendly it seems.
Failing that, you say extermination and again, this is not extermination. Extermination would be what Israel is fully capable of, but not doing. Israel could remove human life as a whole from that strip of land and do it too quickly for anyone in the world to respond to or stop it. They choose, by deliberate decision, not to do this.
Is war hell? Yes. It absolutely is. Do innocent people die? Yes. They absolutely do. Prior to Iron Dome, it was as likely to be little Jewish children in a state like your photo shows. I have photographs of them as well, but will avoid posting such graphic examples among mixed company.
Neither side has any moral high ground at this point. Hamas did start this fight, as they fired the first rockets. Israel started it in Hamas's view by coming down on Hamas supporters in the West Bank following the murder of the 3 Israelis. It needs to end on both sides, and either side can end it if the other will cooperate. Right now Hamas refuses to cooperate with a cease fire.
We are still left with the fact in the end, Hamas outright and by their mission statement, exists to eradicate Israeli life and remove the Israeli state by force. That would be extermination and only one side literally makes it their mission in life.
Is the extreme photos of death among children necessary to make your point? If you have a personal and direct stake in the topic I won't debate you on it. Let me know if that is the case. It tends to lead passions too high to remain friendly it seems.
Failing that, you say extermination and again, this is not extermination. Extermination would be what Israel is fully capable of, but not doing. Israel could remove human life as a whole from that strip of land and do it too quickly for anyone in the world to respond to or stop it. They choose, by deliberate decision, not to do this.
Is war hell? Yes. It absolutely is. Do innocent people die? Yes. They absolutely do. Prior to Iron Dome, it was as likely to be little Jewish children in a state like your photo shows. I have photographs of them as well, but will avoid posting such graphic examples among mixed company.
Neither side has any moral high ground at this point. Hamas did start this fight, as they fired the first rockets. Israel started it in Hamas's view by coming down on Hamas supporters in the West Bank following the murder of the 3 Israelis. It needs to end on both sides, and either side can end it if the other will cooperate. Right now Hamas refuses to cooperate with a cease fire.
We are still left with the fact in the end, Hamas outright and by their mission statement, exists to eradicate Israeli life and remove the Israeli state by force. That would be extermination and only one side literally makes it their mission in life.
a reply to: hellobruce
I couldn't help but check the numbers. A 100 tonne weapon would be 220,462 pounds. I would have to see the delivery system to believe such a thing could exist. No Kidding.
I couldn't help but check the numbers. A 100 tonne weapon would be 220,462 pounds. I would have to see the delivery system to believe such a thing could exist. No Kidding.
originally posted by: MrCynic
We are still left with the fact in the end, Hamas outright and by their mission statement, exists to eradicate Israeli life and remove the Israeli state by force. That would be extermination and only one side literally makes it their mission in life.
This is a fact that Hamas supporters like to keep ignoring.
originally posted by: MrCynic
a reply to: Rosha
Is the extreme photos of death among children necessary to make your point?
I have avoided using such images out of respect until now. I chose this time to use it deliberately. As much to remove the comforted denial of what is really happening as to place my comment in its right context. It was necessary, yes.
If you have a personal and direct stake in the topic I won't debate you on it. Let me know if that is the case. It tends to lead passions too high to remain friendly it seems.
I am a human being. That is my stake in this.
Neither side has any moral high ground at this point. Hamas did start this fight, as they fired the first rockets.
Ask yourself..who chose this particular beginning of the 'Gaza narrative' for you? The reality is, that NO, they didn't. Rocket fire came AFTER Israeli attacks and the murder of civilians. It was a retaliatory action. The whole truth is not being told to the world and the news media has you myopically repeating this mantra of 'Hamas started it' rather nicely - its a view given to the Zionist controlled media to rinse and repeat until ppl believe it, by the IDF seeking to justify the slaughter who can almost guarantee you wont fact check for yourself. You *are* missing the facts, and those facts highlight an ignition context that does matter and CANNOT be dismissed.
We are still left with the fact in the end, Hamas outright and by their mission statement, exists to eradicate Israeli life and remove the Israeli state by force. That would be extermination and only one side literally makes it their mission in life. '
Again I am focusing on right here and now, while you are avoiding the fact historically that Palestine as a whole, has been occupied, it was not ever handed over. From the beginning a Jewish state was given permission to form WITHIN Palestine...it was not ever given the right to claim Palestine. Palestine never agreed to surrender its right to land or governance of it.
Ultimately, it is up to the PEOPLE of Palestine, not Hamas - who were elected in direct response to Israels occupation methods and murders - or anyone else to determine Palestine's ultimate fate. THAT is what self determination - a HUMAN right - is. THEY have the RIGHT to decide for themselves.
Under your view, I could go grab myself enough weapons and mercenaries and do the same thing Israel has done to them, with impunity to your home nation too.
Be very careful what you are really agreeing to 'make acceptable' here, as it comes around eventually and when it does, if you agreed wrong, you wont have a leg to stand on. I am for the upholding of international law as it stands, equally in all nations whatever their state form and I am for humans globally learning the lessons of history and applying them. I am also speaking out for the children of the people of Palestine. You go live as you have chosen.
edit on 30-7-2014 by Rosha because: (no reason given)
originally posted by: MrCynic
I couldn't help but check the numbers. A 100 tonne weapon would be 220,462 pounds. I would have to see the delivery system to believe such a thing could exist. No Kidding.
I have at least corrected my error openly and publicly. You though, sit there and negate and joke about murder of another child with glee.
THAT sums up the difference and the problem. That gleeful acceptance of another human beings fate you are displaying, the justification of murder you want people to swallow as truth, that is a sickness that cant be bombed away. The dehumanization here isn't just of the Gazans , you are dehumanizing yourself.
Copy of pasted note:
** EDIT : Originally I had written : "one hundred tonne missile": I corrected to only "missile" for context as I know 3.5 ton is the usual house buster used by the IDF in Gaza today. And true, when you consider there is the cement..the rubble of a home blasting down, I was forced to concede my ignorance, that indeed, the phrase " one hundred ton" doesn't begin to cut it when you are talking the weight of that debris and missile impact on a baby's head.
edit on 30-7-2014 by Rosha because: (no reason given)
a reply to: Rosha
There is no comforted denial of anything. There are over 1,000 dead Palestinians thus far. I would imagine each and every last individual case looked horrible in it's own right. Only in Hollywood will anyone see a man die in battle as if just falling victim to a sudden urge to sleep or pass out. Seeing the guts of a child displayed to make a political point is beyond the pale, to my thinking. It borders on evil manipulation of emotions.
I am also a human being and I have good friends in Israel among the Jews living there as we speak. They live along side just over 1 million Arab citizens also possessing Israeli citizenship. It's that sort of life in Israel. Is 1 Jew permitted to live outside captivity in Gaza? Even Iran has a Jewish community for what that's worth. Hamas outright states the death of Israel and those within it as their main reason to exist.
It is their mission statement and charter. That is murder by charter. That is extermination by life's mission. That is Hamas. That isn't the Palestinian people. That is Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood they are a part of.
You suggest Hamas attacks came after Israeli attacks, and I might have missed something. What Israel weapons system fired a weapon into the Gaza strip prior to a rocket being fired by the Hamas fighters in this round? Specifically, and with precision of date and time for context. Which weapon did Israel fire and when?
Okay, time to crack a book. When was that land called Palestine under the direction and governance of Palestinian people? Which years was that a factual situation on that land? The Ottoman Empire held it as part of their possessions as well as land beyond it right into World War I. It was a British protectorate and possession until the UN screwed things up in 1947/48 by arguing long enough for the Jews to just say 'heck with it' and outright self-declare. Which is what they did.
I hear many people opine of the days of Palestine, as if that had actually been the nation occupying that soil for any length of time in any recent period of history. If it was, again, which dates by year was that the case?
Ultimately, I would love it to be up to the Palestinian people. It was up to them while the Palestinian Authority controlled both the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Then Hamas managed to take or win an election and they will never peacefully surrender power again. Check into how Hamas treats it's Palestinian political rivals and what it does to them. This isn't free elections for what came after the first win in 2007. It's been an Islamic state trying to form under the auspices of the Muslim Brotherhood and among the Palestinian people.
I'm clear in what I find acceptable. When a population is under bombardment and cease fires are rejected regularly, defense is the only one of two options. The other is to die well and just give up. I'd never find giving up to be acceptable while under fire. Now someone ask Hamas to cease fire, as the world is working so hard to achieve.
I have avoided using such images out of respect until now. I chose this time to use it deliberately.
There is no comforted denial of anything. There are over 1,000 dead Palestinians thus far. I would imagine each and every last individual case looked horrible in it's own right. Only in Hollywood will anyone see a man die in battle as if just falling victim to a sudden urge to sleep or pass out. Seeing the guts of a child displayed to make a political point is beyond the pale, to my thinking. It borders on evil manipulation of emotions.
I am a human being. That is my stake in this.
I am also a human being and I have good friends in Israel among the Jews living there as we speak. They live along side just over 1 million Arab citizens also possessing Israeli citizenship. It's that sort of life in Israel. Is 1 Jew permitted to live outside captivity in Gaza? Even Iran has a Jewish community for what that's worth. Hamas outright states the death of Israel and those within it as their main reason to exist.
It is their mission statement and charter. That is murder by charter. That is extermination by life's mission. That is Hamas. That isn't the Palestinian people. That is Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood they are a part of.
Ask yourself..who chose this particular beginning of the 'Gaza narrative' for you?
You suggest Hamas attacks came after Israeli attacks, and I might have missed something. What Israel weapons system fired a weapon into the Gaza strip prior to a rocket being fired by the Hamas fighters in this round? Specifically, and with precision of date and time for context. Which weapon did Israel fire and when?
Again I am focusing on right here and now, while you are avoiding the fact historically that Palestine as a whole, has been occupied, it was not ever handed over.
Okay, time to crack a book. When was that land called Palestine under the direction and governance of Palestinian people? Which years was that a factual situation on that land? The Ottoman Empire held it as part of their possessions as well as land beyond it right into World War I. It was a British protectorate and possession until the UN screwed things up in 1947/48 by arguing long enough for the Jews to just say 'heck with it' and outright self-declare. Which is what they did.
I hear many people opine of the days of Palestine, as if that had actually been the nation occupying that soil for any length of time in any recent period of history. If it was, again, which dates by year was that the case?
Ultimately, it is up to the PEOPLE of Palestine, not Hamas - who were elected in direct response to Israels occupation methods and murders - or anyone else to determine Palestine's ultimate fate. THAT is what a democracy is. THEY decide for themselves.
Ultimately, I would love it to be up to the Palestinian people. It was up to them while the Palestinian Authority controlled both the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Then Hamas managed to take or win an election and they will never peacefully surrender power again. Check into how Hamas treats it's Palestinian political rivals and what it does to them. This isn't free elections for what came after the first win in 2007. It's been an Islamic state trying to form under the auspices of the Muslim Brotherhood and among the Palestinian people.
Be very careful what you are really agreeing to 'make acceptable' here, as it comes around eventually and when it does, if you agreed wrong, you wont have a leg to stand on.
I'm clear in what I find acceptable. When a population is under bombardment and cease fires are rejected regularly, defense is the only one of two options. The other is to die well and just give up. I'd never find giving up to be acceptable while under fire. Now someone ask Hamas to cease fire, as the world is working so hard to achieve.
a reply to: Rosha
Lets agree to avoid the hyperbole or speaking for each other here. I have never, in any form, shown glee or happiness about the death of other people. There have been moments in life where I have felt a personal satisfaction in hearing someone finally left this world. Those are highly personal circumstances with very personal reasons which still brought no happiness. Simply relief and satisfaction of things being set right by fate in the end.
In reality, I think Israel's approach to fighting is one born of desperation as much as the tactics of Hamas have become. In desperation, Israel is also overstepping lines as if none existed, and it's doing so too casually for my liking or any circumstances they are facing. What is their alternative? What is Hamas's alternative? We are watching two sides who dimly recall the very specifics this whole fight is even about after so many centuries of time past. They're both trapped in groundhog day with death and destruction as their only normal.
It's still very difficult if not impossible to yell at Israel when the here and now has Hamas, not Israel, turning away cease fires and violating those which do happen within an hour or less.
That gleeful acceptance of another human beings fate you are displaying, the justification of murder you want people to swallow as truth, that is a sickness that cant be bombed away.
Lets agree to avoid the hyperbole or speaking for each other here. I have never, in any form, shown glee or happiness about the death of other people. There have been moments in life where I have felt a personal satisfaction in hearing someone finally left this world. Those are highly personal circumstances with very personal reasons which still brought no happiness. Simply relief and satisfaction of things being set right by fate in the end.
In reality, I think Israel's approach to fighting is one born of desperation as much as the tactics of Hamas have become. In desperation, Israel is also overstepping lines as if none existed, and it's doing so too casually for my liking or any circumstances they are facing. What is their alternative? What is Hamas's alternative? We are watching two sides who dimly recall the very specifics this whole fight is even about after so many centuries of time past. They're both trapped in groundhog day with death and destruction as their only normal.
It's still very difficult if not impossible to yell at Israel when the here and now has Hamas, not Israel, turning away cease fires and violating those which do happen within an hour or less.
Oh ffs...same arguments already debunked a million times, gone round in circle time and time again. Go back to the beginning of this thread..all my links and responses to this mind numbing repetition of specious lies are there to see for all.
You made it clear where you stand on this. I accept your position. You are the one that has to live with it.
You suggest Hamas attacks came after Israeli attacks, and I might have missed something. What Israel weapons system fired a weapon into the Gaza strip prior to a rocket being fired by the Hamas fighters in this round? Specifically, and with precision of date and time for context. Which weapon did Israel fire and when?
Excellent question! Why dont you go do some research and come back and tell everyone just what you find! I know already!
There were an entire chain of events that led to rocket fire on that day....go research - for yourself- and come back and tell everyone.
.
Okay, time to crack a book. When was that land called Palestine under the direction and governance of Palestinian people? Which years was that a factual situation on that land? The Ottoman Empire held it as part of their possessions as well as land beyond it right into World War I. It was a British protectorate and possession until the UN screwed things up in 1947/48 by arguing long enough for the Jews to just say 'heck with it' and outright self-declare. Which is what they did.
BINGO!!!!!!!!
So, lets ignore that Palestine existed...same old mantra. Already debunked.
Next?
I hear many people opine of the days of Palestine, as if that had actually been the nation occupying that soil for any length of time in any recent period of history. If it was, again, which dates by year was that the case?
You are aware right that life existed before the tribes even formed and will after we are all long dead too?
So ok...presuming you do accept that.
Lets ignore the reality that Palestine in every way fulfilled the identity and 'requirements' of nationhood, as any other forming nation did that region in that era together.
Lets see opinion on that together shall we?
Here: www.youtube.com...
Here; www.youtube.com...
Here too: sabbah.biz...
I am also a human being and I have good friends in Israel among the Jews living there as we speak. They live along side just over 1 million Arab citizens also possessing Israeli citizenship. It's that sort of life in Israel. Is 1 Jew permitted to live outside captivity in Gaza? Even Iran has a Jewish community for what that's worth. Hamas outright states the death of Israel and those within it as their main reason to exist. It is their mission statement and charter. That is murder by charter. That is extermination by life's mission. That is Hamas. That isn't the Palestinian people. That is Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood they are a part of.
I have lost many friends in this plague of inhumanity. People who placed themselves in harms way to show the people of Palestine humanity and dignity are not dreams...they are actions. I know exactly 'how it is ' in Israel for Arabic people living as second class citizens in their own land, not to mention African people and even Jewish Ethiopians right now and no a Jewish person cannot live in Gaza - The international Community and UN LAW said so. It is against the LAW to build on OCCUPIED land.
Rabbi's in Israel state exactly the same thing about Arabic people as a whole and Palestinians every single damn day and if you want a list of clips of them saying it, just ask. If you want clips of Knesset sessions saying the same thing I have them, of every president of state saying it, I have them. Israel is pointing the finger at them, and expecting the world to not see that it is POT KETTLE BLACK.
Ultimately, I would love it to be up to the Palestinian people. It was up to them while the Palestinian Authority controlled both the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Then Hamas managed to take or win an election and they will never peacefully surrender power again. Check into how Hamas treats it's Palestinian political rivals and what it does to them. This isn't free elections for what came after the first win in 2007. It's been an Islamic state trying to form under the auspices of the Muslim Brotherhood and among the Palestinian people.
You're patronization of the will and strength of Palestinian people is sickening.
Even if what you say were to come about or is 100% correct - it is STILL none of the Knesset's business what these people choose or do not choose in their own land and nothing about that issue in ANY way justifies the rampant slaughter of innocent people going on right now.
By your reasoning, the IDF is killing kids right now, for what their parents MIGHT do?
Woah..that's some god complex there.
I'm clear in what I find acceptable. When a population is under bombardment and cease fires are rejected regularly, defense is the only one of two options. The other is to die well and just give up. I'd never find giving up to be acceptable while under fire. Now someone ask Hamas to cease fire, as the world is working so hard to achieve.
Hamas had - with Israels full knowledge of the fact- all but stopped any factional fighting and rocket fire from Gazan soil, it had worked under horrendous siege conditions to join with Fatah to form a unity government, Palestine was ready to join the intentional international community and move toward statehood. ISRAEL chose to screw that hope for peace.
That is what lies at the root of the Israeli justification for these crimes and the entire world knows it.
No more posts to you..no ears..big lies...same bs same 'fear and fret' same justifications for murder...same zionist trolling. Time for the IRON THUMB...as I say, live as you have chosen.
Have a nice day.
edit on 30-7-2014 by Rosha because: (no reason given)
B*ll#. Hows that for hyperbole. I JUST posted what Hamas is offering as alternative above! Such simple conditions to meet, if Israel is acting
honestly, and for TEN years of TIME to work on better solutions .
You dont respect me the kids of Gaza, or peoples innate human right to life enough to even read it. So be it.
Go google " Israel breaks ceasefire" and see, from 2005 until now, just what you find. Goodnight.
You dont respect me the kids of Gaza, or peoples innate human right to life enough to even read it. So be it.
Go google " Israel breaks ceasefire" and see, from 2005 until now, just what you find. Goodnight.
originally posted by: MrCynic
a reply to: Rosha
That gleeful acceptance of another human beings fate you are displaying, the justification of murder you want people to swallow as truth, that is a sickness that cant be bombed away.
Lets agree to avoid the hyperbole or speaking for each other here. I have never, in any form, shown glee or happiness about the death of other people. There have been moments in life where I have felt a personal satisfaction in hearing someone finally left this world. Those are highly personal circumstances with very personal reasons which still brought no happiness. Simply relief and satisfaction of things being set right by fate in the end.
In reality, I think Israel's approach to fighting is one born of desperation as much as the tactics of Hamas have become. In desperation, Israel is also overstepping lines as if none existed, and it's doing so too casually for my liking or any circumstances they are facing. What is their alternative? What is Hamas's alternative? We are watching two sides who dimly recall the very specifics this whole fight is even about after so many centuries of time past. They're both trapped in groundhog day with death and destruction as their only normal.
It's still very difficult if not impossible to yell at Israel when the here and now has Hamas, not Israel, turning away cease fires and violating those which do happen within an hour or less.edit on 30-7-2014 by Rosha because: (no reason given)
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