Israeli Naval Ship Bombs Palestinian Children on Gaza Beach - Killing Four

a reply to: Rosha

This is not true. Hamas has undermined Fatah at every opportunity. In fact, when Fatah appealed to the UN for recognition of statehood under observer status, Hamas openly opposed their strategy, because they knew that Fatah was willing to recognize Israel's right to exist and were seeking a two state solution. Hamas will not accept a solution that includes the recognition of Israel within an borders whatsoever.

I realize there are right wing factions in the Knesset that are opposed to relinquishing land, but nonetheless, the Israeli government is willing to negotiate a two state solution if the Palestinian territories are demilitarized. The borders might be redefined as well if the effort from Palestinian leadership was sincere.

The bottom line is that Israel cannot negotiate under the circumstances, because the Palestinian leadership is divided.

originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow
Unfortunately there were still sailors from that ship alive to tell the true story. I guess you ignore their testimony which can be found online easily.

You are the one ignoring the facts - that testimony was from sailors on board....

If you don't know anything about the event why are you even talking about it?

You are the one not knowing, no one tried to blame Egypt, that is just a silly conspiracy theory not based on any fact at all.

AGAIN...the problem with propaganda is that it can be PROVED LIES simply by accessing a few facts.

See here: Unity party of Hamas and Fatah sworn in

""After seven years of a bitter and at times lethal rivalry between the two main Palestinian factions, Fatah and Hamas, a historic Palestinian unity government has been sworn in , ending years of division.

The signing ceremony, which seems likely to complicate relations with the Palestinian Authority's international aid donors in Europe and the US and increase tensions with Israel, was broadcast live in Gaza and the West Bank.

Despite the US secretary of state, John Kerry, telephoning the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, to express "concern about Hamas's role in any such government" ahead of the ceremony, the US said on Monday night that it would work with the new government but that it would be "watching closely to ensure that it upholds principles that President Abbas reiterated today", State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said. Israel, which suspended peace negotiations in April when a surprise reconciliation deal was signed opening the way to the appointment of the new government, reacted angrily to the deal.""


Peter Beaumont in Jerusalem
theguardian.com, Monday 2 June 2014 22.30 AEST


Please STOP with the lies already. Israel cannot justify its current and historical slaughter of innocent civilians by using Hamas or any other 'reason'..the plain truth is..ISRAEL WANTS PALESTINE and is prepared to murder anyone and crush any attempt to be dissuaded from it.

Peace was on the table...Israels fear paranoia and mistrust ..wrecked it.

Want to talk about demilitarization then talk of it in terms of the whole region, both Israel and Palestinian militias, or its just more piss and wind power and control games that no one would submit to and can't expect others to.


Rosha

originally posted by: Humanity4Ever
a reply to: Rosha

This is not true. Hamas has undermined Fatah at every opportunity. In fact, when Fatah appealed to the UN for recognition of statehood under observer status, Hamas openly opposed their strategy, because they knew that Fatah was willing to recognize Israel's right to exist and were seeking a two state solution. Hamas will not accept a solution that includes the recognition of Israel within an borders whatsoever.

I realize there are right wing factions in the Knesset that are opposed to relinquishing land, but nonetheless, the Israeli government is willing to negotiate a two state solution if the Palestinian territories are demilitarized. The borders might be redefined as well if the effort from Palestinian leadership was sincere.

The bottom line is that Israel cannot negotiate under the circumstances, because the Palestinian leadership is divided.

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow
Unfortunately there were still sailors from that ship alive to tell the true story. I guess you ignore their testimony which can be found online easily.

You are the one ignoring the facts - that testimony was from sailors on board....

If you don't know anything about the event why are you even talking about it?

You are the one not knowing, no one tried to blame Egypt, that is just a silly conspiracy theory not based on any fact at all.

Do you have this masochistic desire to be shown to be wrong? It is well known that there was an attempt to blame Egypt. There were jets en route to Egypt. Do a little research, jesus.

Admiral Thomas H. Moorer, former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and a critic of the official United States Government version of events, chaired a non-governmental investigation into the attack on the USS Liberty in 2003. The committee, which included former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia James E. Akins, held Israel to be culpable and suggested several theories for Israel's possible motives, including the desire to blame Egypt and bring the U.S. into the Six Day War.[92]

This is just the wiki source, but there are A LOT more in depth coverage on this facet.
Link

You know what's wrong with ATS, when people can't admit they were wrong.
Egypt was like 10 seconds to midnight.

I thought this was a timely reminder.

originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow
You know what's wrong with ATS, when people can't admit they were wrong.

That would be you here!

a reply to: Rosha

Once again, until the Palestinians are represented by a unified, DIPLOMATIC, governing body, there will not be peace in the region or a viable two state solution.

And if Israel wanted Palestine, they could have annexed Gaza and the West Bank long ago. Enough of the BS.

originally posted by: Humanity4Ever
a reply to: Rosha

Once again, until the Palestinians are represented by a unified, DIPLOMATIC, governing body, there will not be peace in the region or a viable two state solution.

And if Israel wanted Palestine, they could have annexed Gaza and the West Bank long ago. Enough of the BS.

Ah so now just unified isn't enough they have to be DIPLOMATIC too! Wow..in what way diplomatic? Would you like fries with that? Who gave Israel or you for that matter, the right to dictate terms?

Lets say for arguments sake they reach THAT bar....where is the next one going to be? How many more will be murdered before that day?

The 8th Item of the UN Charter states that people under occupation have the right to resistance including that of armed struggle.

As Hamas is a militia spawned from a people who have been held under occupation for nearly 70 years, they fall under this category.

The UN Charter and the International Laws that protect the Palestinian people and their militia are not up to Israel to determine. I dont care if Israel doesn't like the fact, they chose to occupy they chose the consequences of being occupiers.

It is up to Israel who have arrogantly 'dismissed' over 200 UN resolutions on Gaza to cease occupying Palestine as whole, to cease targeting of civilians and cease converting of Palestinian land and so prove itself willing to be an ordinary member of the human race and agree to abide by international law and protocols; as it is up to Israel to become a DIPLOMATIC regime and to uphold the commitments it is signatory to under the UN Charter - or end this farce of legitimacy entirely and leave the UN.

Why is it up to them? It is up to them as they are the ones breaking these laws.

If Israel wants to be a State, yet has no desire to abide by international law, then it also must accept it has no grounds for protection or consideration under it. Period.

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow
You know what's wrong with ATS, when people can't admit they were wrong.

That would be you here!

At this point you are just trolling. I have given you facts. If you want to be willfully ignorant that's on you.

a reply to: Humanity4Ever

The bottom line is that Israel cannot negotiate under the circumstances, because the Palestinian leadership is divided.

What are you talking about?

They formed a unity government a couple of months ago and Israel immediately started saying they wouldn't work with them. Not long afterwards those Israeli teenagers were murdered which the Israeli government capitalised on as an excuse to once again derail any peace process.

a reply to: Rosha

You are missing the fundamental issue here. Israel has demonstrated in the past that they are willing to concede land and work towards a viable two state solution if the Palestinians are represented by a regime that recognizes Israel's right to exist.

What good is it if Hamas and Fatah unite but Israel faces the same ridiculous obstacle towards a peace treaty?

What concessions would you like Netanyahu to make to Hamas?

How does a nation negotiate their right to exist?

a reply to: Kram09

Of course Israel won't negotiate if Hamas is involved, they are a terrorist regime that is sworn to Israel's destruction, and they took Gaza by force in 2005.

If Fatah was the sole governing body representing all Palestinians, Israel would work towards a two state solution.

a reply to: Humanity4Ever

Look no further than recent history. In 2005, the world applauded Israel when the government extended the olive branch towards a peace treaty by relinquishing a significant piece of land near the Gazan border to Fatah, the current moderate leadership in control of the West Bank. The IDF had to forcefully remove 40,000 Jewish settlers from their homes, uproot graves in Jewish cemeteries, and abandon schools and synagogues.

Do you know what the response was to that unprecedented gesture by the Israeli government? Within 48 hours, Hamas militants overtook control of Gaza by murdering Fatah politicians; they actually threw them off of rooftops as a show of force. Shortly thereafter, Hamas seized control and began to use that land to launch missile attacks on the Israeli population from close range. Israel tried a diplomatic approach and it backfired.

If true, then what is mentioned above should not be condoned. The following is based on a perspective of someone who has lived there which shows that you are only seeing the situation from a biased perspective.

The deaths of Israeli teens Naftali Fraenkel, Gilad Shaer and Eyal Yifrah represent a tragedy- one that no family should have to face. Violence touches communities deeply and does not spare race, creed or intellect. What I grapple with, is the reaction to their deaths — Israeli lawmakers calling for a genocide and vengeance against Arabs, the torture and murder of 17-year-old Muhammad Abu Khdair by Israeli settlers, Israeli settlers’ continued kidnapping and abuse of Palestinian children, and now the Israeli military operation and violent assault against Gaza that is collectively punishing 1.7 million people who are already living in poverty. Gaza has been described by human rights groups as an open air prison with no where to escape. It has to end.

This massacre will only continue to bring pain and suffering to a conflict that has taught both Israeli and Palestinian youth that a roadmap for peace has been shattered.

As I watch the media play headline games and act as a lapdog to a U.S. ally, it takes me back to the year 2001, when I returned to the U.S. after living in Jerusalem for about four years.

As we were about to head to the airport to go back the U.S., where I was born and raised, my father received a call from a relative, panicked and scared about evacuating the all-girl elementary school where this relative was working as a principal at the time because Israeli settlers had planted a bomb in the school. At the same time, this relative explained, their sons’ school, an all-boy elementary school, was also being evacuated because Israeli settlers had planted a bomb there as well.

That day, Israeli settlers had been planting bombs throughout Palestinian schools and no child was safe. Feeling extreme shock and fear that innocent children were being targeted by these extremist acts of hate and violence, it was beyond traumatizing for me and my family, as I was only 13 years old at the time.

www.mintpressnews.com...

originally posted by: Humanity4Ever
... and they took Gaza by force in 2005.

Was it not by the force of the ballot?

originally posted by: Humanity4Ever
a reply to: Kram09

Of course Israel won't negotiate if Hamas is involved, they are a terrorist regime that is sworn to Israel's destruction, and they took Gaza by force in 2005.

If Fatah was the sole governing body representing all Palestinians, Israel would work towards a two state solution.

Israel took Palestine by force and leveled their cities in 1948, murdered thousands and drove Palestinians into exile or into open air prison camps that have now become the WB and Gaza...a people who did NOTHING to zionists or to jews, now existing under an illegal occupation and under conditions of imprisonment for 68 years.....

Palestine pre 1948 massacre a viable flourishing cultured artistic social interconnected community and society..wiped off the map by zionist forces.
www.youtube.com...

Who's the terrorist again?

------

originally posted by: Humanity4Ever
a reply to: Rosha

You are missing the fundamental issue here. Israel has demonstrated in the past that they are willing to concede land and work towards a viable two state solution if the Palestinians are represented by a regime that recognizes Israel's right to exist.

What good is it if Hamas and Fatah unite but Israel faces the same ridiculous obstacle towards a peace treaty?

What concessions would you like Netanyahu to make to Hamas?

How does a nation negotiate their right to exist?

You seem to confuse the demand for recognition of a JEWISH state, with recognition of the State. The former is a demand that effectively means the Palestinians must ignore their history culture and way of life and surrender to the jackboot of Israels rule over them. Israel would not accept those terms. Why does Israel demand of others what it cannot accept itself?

Also you also neatly side step that State of Israel has and is still illegally under international law, clearing the land of its native inhabitants and have openly stated their goal is to entirely claim the Levant from Jordan to the sea...Everything Israel accuses others of threatening, they themselves are doing.

A few dozen posts ago I addressed the issue of non recognition of a Jewish state. I'm not repeating myself. I am also not as obnoxious, that I would set terms and demands for any group. I know what I would like to see happen, though I know that this is not my decision, it is up to the people living Palestine to decide for themselves.


What remains...

In Gaza, one child has been killed every hour for the past two days.
www.ochaopt.org...

No justification no excuses..no political obfuscation or out right lies.. nothing can or will ever wipe that from history.

Here are their names...
www.telegraph.co.uk...

When the country you defend is murdering children by the dozen, you're going to lose every singe argument.

nm lol

originally posted by: Rosha
In Gaza, one child has been killed every hour for the past two days.

All due to Hamas - they could stop it at anytime, but prefer to use them as propaganda, to be pushed by Hamas terrorists and their supporters.

Hamas started this, it is up to Hamas to stop it - but they even refuse to have a cease fire!

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: Rosha
In Gaza, one child has been killed every hour for the past two days.

All due to Hamas - they could stop it at anytime, but prefer to use them as propaganda, to be pushed by Hamas terrorists and their supporters.

Hamas started this, it is up to Hamas to stop it - but they even refuse to have a cease fire!

Stop being a child. Israel breached the Nov 12 ceasefire without a peep from you.
Yes I am sure you want the people back under control, quiet, silent, invisible again so the world cannot see what is going on there. Not going to happen.

Why won't Israel honor the agreements it already signed?
See how here: electronicintifada.net...

Again, you cannot demand of others what you do not demand of yourself.

Grow up.

Update:

-Gaza city is now being bombed directly right now.
- Shifa hospital under constant tank fire - patients dying in their beds from bombs.
- Israel bombed a UN Girls' School in Gaza : - UN school sheltering Gazans displaced hit by Israel shells news.yahoo.com...
- 122 people were murdered overnight
- Khuzaa is being bombed, artillery shelling on Maghazi, Abuelajeen, and Deir el Balah
-Israel has killed 632 Palestinians, including 161 children, & wounded 4,030 (Gaza's MoH update, 02:00 23 July)
-Chn 4 report from Shifa hospital www.channel4.com...
-117,000 displaced being hosted in 80 @UNRWA schools. A request for a humanitarian pause has been rejected by Israel
- Turkey, Bolivia, Norway and Belgium join the number of nations standing to voice rejection of Israeli pretext in Gaza as world wide protest continue and grow.
-UNRWA reiterates calls from the international community both for a cessation in hostilities and an end to the crippling blockade on Gaza
- A 1600 year old church inGaza was bombed today. The church was being used as a place of refuge for all who needed it.
-Israeli forces fire live bullets at youth in Hebron,Jerusalem,& Nablus injuring dozens.