It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.


Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.


SCI/TECH: US GPS Monopoly Crumbling- Other US Efforts Also Undermined

page: 1

log in


posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 03:29 PM
Insider notes at United Press International have it that the US monopoly on the Global Positioning System is not only facing competition from the EU's own PPS (Precise Positioning System), but in addition the EU's new Galileo system may pose serious problems for the US military's plans on a new M-Code encrypted GPS due to deploy in 2012. The EU's desire to have the Galileo System use modulation known as Binary Offset Carrier 1.5 would cause any US jamming of Galileo to disrupt the M-Code as well. Complicating the matter is China, who is involved in a partnership with the EU on Galileo. To make matters even worse for Washington, a third Russian GPS known as GLONASS will be rebuilt by in a deal between India and Russia to launch 18 new satellites. This cumulative effort thwarts US plans to jam all public satellites during military conflict.
The Pentagon's monopoly on its Global Positioning System, a constellation of 24 low-orbit satellites that provide pinpoint civilian and military navigational information, is crumbling. European Union members, deeply unhappy with Pentagon plans to jam the Precise Positioning System during wartime, have developed their own stand-alone civil-military GPS system. The EU's Galileo system is currently projected to be operational in 2007. While the EU would like the standard, publicly available signal to use a modulation known as Binary Offset Carrier 1.5, U.S. officials argue that this would interfere with its use of its M-code encrypted GPS military signal, planned for deployment in 2012. During military conflict, the United States had planned to jam all public satellite signals so that its enemy could not use satellite positioning, but jamming Galileo's signal would also disrupt the M-code. Washington insiders believe that France is leading the Galileo effort as a slap at U.S. space hegemony. Even worse for the Pentagon, China is now a partner with the EU in building Galileo. Completing the Pentagon's misery, a third GPS alternative is about to become operational. India will shortly sign an agreement with Russia to jointly launch 18 satellites to rebuild the Russian navigation GLONASS network, according to Gen. Anatoli Perminov, chief of the Russian Federal Space Agency. Perminov said New Delhi would be the only foreign partner in the project. On Dec. 3 Putin begins a three-day trip to India, where the system will undoubtedly be on the agenda.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

In other UPI insider notes, a Dick Cheney visit to Kabul, Afghanistan for the new president's inauguration may pose an irresistable target for the Taliban and al-Qaida, who are said to likely deploy all remaining assets against such a high profile target. Also reported by UPI is a Venezuelan move to replace US F-16 fighter jets with Russian MiG-29's, as well as other weapons- an action particularly galling to Washington.

All of this appears to be the combined effect of US foreign policy, causing many countries to unite in various ways in a stand against us. Has the US become too powerful for its own good? These and other reports bring evidence that this may be the case, and unless some things in Washington change soon, we are headed on a sure path to increasing global isolation. We cannot, as a country, and IMO, police and attempt to control the entire world.

Related News Links:

[edit on 2-12-2004 by Banshee]

posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 04:49 PM
I would not go so far as to say it is going to undermine the US system or hinder its develoment at all.

This is nothing more then what happened with the VHS versus BETA tape formats, NSTC versus PAL TV formats, Metric versus standard wrench sizes.

It happens each and everytime a new type of technoglogy comes out, everyone wants to be able to claim their mouse trap is better then the next guys.

Now we will just have to wait and see which format is favored by those that use the systems.

posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 05:19 PM
The Galileo system will be interoperable with GPS. If Europe wants to reinvent the wheel and shell out the $$$ go for it. The burr is if they chose not to jam signals if a US force is engaged in combat in the area. The US will no doubt develop a counter technology to take it out on a temp bases.

Edit: In regards to the F-16 / Mig 29. Its also a marketplace issue. US companies have strict tech transpher issues mandated by the State Department, Congress, and the Pentagon, while thier Russian counterparts can sell whatever. Perhaps the US refused to let them buy the AMRAAM with the plane? Who knows.

[edit on 12/2/04 by FredT]

posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 05:41 PM
It seems to me to be potentially much more serious. It totally negates a major military tactic of ours; to be able to jam satellite commumications in time of warfare. Europe seems to have designed it so that jamming their signals also results in jamming our own signals.

Not surprising that France, our "ally", is leading the charge.

I am confident in the technological superiority of America to find a way around this, but it's just one more thing to worry about.

posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 06:08 PM
The GPS is an old technology for us. Who knows what he have floating up their thats labled "black" And if it came down to it and the EU were being asses and supply the enemy with the gps coordinates for our forces then i guarenttee you jamming their signals would be the least we do. If they were to do that i would give their satlites 24 more hours to survive

posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 06:19 PM
I suspect you're right on the money, TrueAmerican. We may become more and more removed from the world over time, unless we change our ways a little, and do it soon. It just goes along with being loathed.

IMHO, this is the price to pay for arrogance and reckless, unprovoked hostility around the world. I've heard quite a number of people say they don't care what the rest of the world thinks of us. I hope this thread causes at least 1 of them re-think that.

The U.S. may have the biggest nuclear (I mean nucular; sorry George) arsenal in the world, and maybe the biggest wallet at the moment, as well, but that doesn't equate to omnipotence. Our authority and influence around the world isn't without limit. We are still very much DEPENDENT on allies to remain at the top of the heap. To think differently, IMO, is both dangerous and unbelievably small minded. To imagine that this kind of thinking may go on at the highest levels of our nation's leadership is beyond unbelievable. It's SUICIDAL. If it does (duh...), and if it goes on for long, we may not only become an island, but a quickly sinking one at that.

I just hope it's not already too late to repair the damage ...

posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 06:33 PM
All the US will have to do is find some hackers, threaten them with arrest, offer the alternative of being hired into the NSA and voila, the code will be broken. Think this hasn't happened before? It's not just in the movies...

On a more serious note, competition is good. So the EU and Russia are developing competing products, well that means the US will need to come up with a more robust solution to our GPS needs -- perhaps one that is tougher to crack into and jam. Competition spurs innovation or you die (literally that is). In the end we could have a better version that the EU or Russian versions. And of course, Congress will approve the budget for such a project now that the world knows about these potential competitors/threats to our GPS system. There's always an ulterior motive.

Quicksilver made a very good point about the "black" systems by the way.

posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 07:04 PM
What does the system actully do?

I know it says it knocks out satilites communications but does this mean EVERYONES?

I mean if the U.S had a war (what are the chances eh?
) and they used it to block satilite communcations would this mean ALL of everyone elses over the area would go out (China, EU, Russia ect)

If so that would seriously skrew with eveyones personal and saftey issues

What if they decided to Freeze communications over an area and everyones flight systems go down or it knocks out peoples phones/TV

If it is GPS then it would make navigation systems that planes/ships ect irellivent

I hope this is not the type of tech that everyones wanting

or am i seriously off track?

[edit on 2-12-2004 by Crash]

posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 09:07 PM
Crash - NO, this would not involve all other satellites, just the ones on the specifiec frequency.

Quicksilver - Old tech? How can something that we constantly are improving and sending up newer better ones be considered as "old"? after you read "GPS" for the roclets payloads name you see a number, currently that number is 2, this means Block 2 (aka:second Gen Sat), and in 2009 is when we will start to replace Block 2 with our third Generation Satellites the Block 3, which is expected to last for 30 years, which is the one that can do the militarys M code.

The US has already stated that if China uses the Galileo system for military purposes that they will take that ability from them by whatever means nessisary, which implies that they have the ability to take-out Geo stationary satellites.

posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 09:39 PM
as the author points out the russians have a gps system already running that has been around for a long time....however inferior it is, the US hasn't had a monopoly for a very long time. as to the threat, ECM has already been in place for a very long time to deal with such events / threats. as to other nations abilities to field similar ECM, the russians sold GPS jammers to the Iraqis that didn't seem to be all that effective i just have to wonder how effect these latest efforts will be.

new topics

top topics


log in