Dementia and contemplation of the Soul

This was something that occurred to me when I was about 13, and was one of the many things that proved to me that a 'soul' simply cannot exist. It's such a simple concept, but I think most people just can't/won't accept it for emotional reasons.

Brain damaged/dead = previous occupant gone, forever. Imagine the brain as a hard drive. Now imagine throwing a hard drive in a vat of lava. It's completely melted. Is the data still there? No. It's permanently erased.

If there really was a 'soul', the brain wouldn't be necessary in storing it.

a reply to: Xaphan

Our neural pathways are rather more complicated than a hard drive a better analogy would be the DDR memory we use in modern day PCs. However even that does not come close or in any way resemble the neural networks that occupies our brain.

The simple fact is that we cannot conclusively say were our consciousness resides or even if it exists.

a reply to: nOraKat

The complete answer to your questions can be found in the Bible but since you placed this topic in philosophy and metaphisics, I suppose you are looking for an irreligious answer?

Anyways, I just thought I'd let you know. The Bible has the answer, if you want to know it.

If you want a starting off point: Genesis 2:7 in conjunction with Ecclesiastes 12:7

And you should know that your soul is, in part, made up of the awareness of images that you have added to those which were already given to you by God and then altered by your ancestors.

To understand what I mean, think of what z meant to you before you gained the awareness of what z meant to others. It was just a zigzag line before because you were not aware of what z meant, and before that, you had no concept of a zigzag, nor a line, and so it was not grafted to your soul - you had no awareness of z, nor a line.

Basically what I'm telling you is that you cannot be aware without images to be aware of, nor the spirit of life, which gives you ability...

Alzheimer's and dementia causes loss of images or memories.

And check the Bible and pray... God can explain it better than I can.

Add: Ezekiel 18:4
But this is not the second death he is referring to.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Xaphan

Our neural pathways are rather more complicated than a hard drive a better analogy would be the DDR memory we use in modern day PCs. However even that does not come close or in any way resemble the neural networks that occupies our brain.

The simple fact is that we cannot conclusively say were our consciousness resides or even if it exists.

Our Consciousness resides in a vessel made of base matter that, is totally recycled every seven or so years. Not one atom is left. So where are the memories stored, where does the conscious thinking take place?

originally posted by: Sparkymedic
a reply to: FlyersFan

Fair enough. Mind explaining how this works?

The easiest way to test whether we can exist independent of our body is to induce an out of body experience. Do enough experiments and you'll start to see there is something very different going on from the official narrative.

Give it a shot. Test it for yourself.

www.scribd.com...
www.youtube.com...

originally posted by: Ismail

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Ismail

Why would it not?

No, that's not how it works.

You say that inside of me is some intangible, invisible "thing" that defines everything that I am, and that this "thing" exists irrespective of my physical body.

I say pics, or it didn't happen.

No offence intended, but that's like saying gravity doesn't exist because it's invisible.

And actually, in my view, consciousness is a lot like gravity, in the sense that it is non-local. The brain does not produce consciousness, but receives and transmits it much like a radio receives and transmits sound waves. The sound waves are not produced by the radio. A person with dementia is like a radio with a broken antenna. When you look at it this way, you will find that many mysteries suddenly make sense. This new paradigm is actually starting to penetrate into the scientific community.

soulwaxer

a reply to: anonentity

Same place as our Soul I imagine.

We only seem to perceive 3 dimensions, maybe our consciousness resides in a higher dimension?

Or possibly with in the bioelectric field the permeates and surrounds our body?

We are a living soul... a soul made of flesh like I was trying to explain in the above post in detail, but it was without eloquence, sorry. I'm not saying we cannot move our awareness beyond the body, but without a body to manifest the awareness, I think the soul will be dead or will "sleep" or be dead in Christ. What eternal soul means to me, for mankind, is that although the body is gone and the soul sleeps, we are not truly gone as in the way death is thought of with modern understandings. Only when we are given a new body of concepts, or awareness, will we reawaken. The soul is eternal but without a body to see with, we sleep. Soul is your awareness and your body manifests that.

Soul is the name people have given to their hope they can continue on past death. It is a fanciful wish and nothing more.

Dementia has robed my mother of a productive life the best I can do is make sure she is safe in a place that treats her well and can keep her involved in life. It is hard to see someone you care about stricken with such a disease I will be going by to see her tonight I only hope she recognizes who I am. Usually she thinks I am my diseased father or her brother...well at least she knows I am family so for that I am thankful.

a reply to: nOraKat

Read Eben Alexander's book. It explains everything.

Our soul is "experiencing" this existence. I like to think of it as a "total recall life".

a reply to: Grimpachi

Don't send her to a home then buddy because the way they are treated and in such an inhuman fashion borders on torture. Point of fact physical torture does indeed take place in there for want of a better word, institutions.

My Grans in the same boat dude, family and carers look after both her and my grandfather in there own home.

It can be done though it takes effort and is both physically and mentally tiring, but they brought me up and we look after our own.

originally posted by: Ismail
Well for starters, personality isn't determined by the physical structure of the brain, it's determined by electrical interactions inside of the brain. Your neurons are "used" to firing in a certain order, in reaction to various environmental stimuli. That pattern of reactivity is your personality.

As for souls, I can't seem to remember any proof substantiating the concept. Why would such a thing exist ?

Work with me here quickly.


I give this quick test out to those who refuse to believe in any form of higher existence.
It's a hypothetical question but soon it may be applicable and it's to make those who think we are nothing more than circuits and neurons on a physical level question their standpoint.

Let's say you were given the opportunity to have yourself cloned, once successful there would be a scrambling roulette-styled killing one of the "yous", the survivor (original or clone) will be released back into your daily life. Would this experiment make you nervous? And why?

I'm sure that if we had the clone survive, generically and physically identical to you at the point of entry to the cloning booth, "you" would VERY WELL attest to us all that "you" survived and are still ok. But with your death (the original) will your experience end?

So even though we know that the only one who can attest to whether or not this experiment worked would be the individual subjected to the experiment. Consciousness, being the closed off system it is, if as you say is formed by a pattern of neurons and its firing habits, what happens when the clone whose system is an exact replica continues your life, in your stead? Will you being to "see" from its body? The clone will assure us all that you see, that you know the experiment and that you survived.


Why would you hesitate in such experiment, if the clone is 100% you?
Essentially, why would you hesitate in this experiment if you have a 100% chance for "survival"?


What is it you are trying to protect?






BC

a reply to: andy06shake

Don't send her to a home then buddy because the way they are treated and in such an inhuman fashion borders on torture. Point of fact physical torture does indeed take place in there for want of a better word, institutions.

That is simply not true... OF course there are some places that aren't great... but for the most part said "institutions" usually take very good care of your loved ones

IF you had any idea what care givers have to go through every day... you'd probably change your view

a reply to: Akragon

I see what care givers have to go through every day, I help them as much as is possible with my own grandparents. I'm not trying to belittle those who help, far from it.

I understand there are good and bad places. Money and the ability to go private more than lightly helps i imagine. That being said here in Glasgow I have been to a place called Mansion House which simply stinks of urine, open bed sores and death.

There are only two staff nurses between 4 wards, patients sit around in their own filth, or sit around drooling, they wont even attempt to get them to eat in some cases. Getting them to change bandages is like pulling teeth. The list goes on! Thats just one place there are many just like Mansion House.

Personally i would rather care for my own but i understand circumstances don't always allow for what we wish.

a reply to: andy06shake

Sigh... I really hate hearing about places like that...

unfortunately they do exist, and its usually about the funding... The Director of Care makes 100k a year, and does their best to save save save...while they sit on their asses most of the day... which means lack of workers, and nurses... clearly in your case, lack of house keeping staff.

And in some cases the ones you love are only there because its affordable...

But please don't bash on the workers... its not an easy job to say the least... the issues with homes like that are at the top of the chain... rarely at the bottom... and I hate to say it, but most nurses in homes are useless

a reply to: Akragon

Its more the management and even in some cases the middle management to blame simply because it's a growth industry and there is profit to be had housing our mentaly and physicaly infirm members of society.

Im not blaming the staff per say, after all they work with what they have, which is little enough these days. Some nurses will even tell you take your grandparents home because if left in said environment chances are they will develop some form of MRSA or other complication and most lightly die.

True fact i can testify to!

a reply to: andy06shake

Well... imagine having to deal with 20 or so people that have no ability to control their bowels... can't feed themselves... and barely even recognise the food that's being fed to them

Or having to deal with people who will attack you when you come into their rooms... some have a tendency to play with their feces... some will even throw it around their rooms or try to paint with it...

these of course are extreme cases of dementia... but the point im trying to make is, working with dementia is extremely stressful, disgusting... and it literally beats most people down over time...

You're taught not to get attached to your residents, but its just not possible to not become very attached... and when you lose them its a relief that they're no longer in pain and torment, but its still heart breaking

Then you get nurses who pretty much do nothing... they're there to dole out meds... then sit and do paper work...

And when something goes wrong... its almost never the nurses fault, it falls on the workers...

Health care in Canada is supposed to be the best in the world... which is extremely upsetting because IF this is the best we can do... I can only imagine what its like in other countries...

Our seniors take care of us their whole lives... and when they get a disease like this we have no idea what to do... so we lock them away and give the responsibility to someone else... out of sight out of mind

Thank God there are some people in my profession that truly care about the people they work with...

a reply to: andy06shake

She is in an ALF that is mixed with independent living just on different floors. I spent about two months visiting different ones both in Orlando and Melbourne FL. The best one I found was in Melbourne. She was deteriorating living at her house at an alarming rate because she secluded herself after my father passed. I had in home health checking on her and even they said staying at home was bad for her. She would come up with reasons to skip doctors visits and didn't like health workers being in her home.

Yes there are some bad places I have seen them but they are not all that way. The final straw was when I came by and she was sick because she found a year old medication and started taking it also because of the dementia she wasn't bathing which made her sick.

Now she interacts with people and at leas does some activities also I don't have to worry about her taking the wrong medication or taking it wrong. Hell I got her a nice place that looks and feels like a spacious apartment they even have pool activities, ice cream bar(she loves), three square meals a day plus she has her own kitchen(the stove is unhooked) but she is still capable of using the microwave. It isn't just a home by any means but I am paying for it. The place cost 4 k a month and there was even a fee(non refundable of 3 k.

a reply to: Akragon

You seem like a credit to your profession, i wish there were more people like you caring for our elderly here in Scotland!

Sadly, in my opinion, when it comes to treatment of our mentally infirm and elderly my own nation is sadly lacking but hey we do have the Commonwealth games to look forward to and probably have to pay for also!

a reply to: Grimpachi

That's like a lot of money!

My own grandparents probably pay around £300-£400 of there own savings PCM to receive the extras, alarms, call out, stair lift, alzheimer's staff and such. And that's with NHS support, I crap you not!