Tory child abuse whistleblower: 'I supplied underage rent boys for Margaret Thatcher's cabinet min

I have a problem with this "whistleblower" in that once again it is just more unsubstantiated claims with no evidence to back it up being reported as fact.

There may be a lot to this story and there may be nothing to it at all. It needs investigating first before people are hung out to dry. And, even if proved to be guilty, i abhor the fact that people have been publicly named before an investigation has even taken place - it sets a very dangerous precedent for the legal process in this country. Whatever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

Paedophilia is a disgusting crime but the nature of the crime shouldn't affect the legal process. If there is evidence to back up these claims then present it to the relevent authorities. Otherwise we are one step nearer to a society where you can simply publicly make claims against others without any evidence. Where you can destroy lives simply with a couple of spoken words.

a reply to: eletheia

I agree with everything you have posted here.

Our whole antiquated system of protecting the wealthy from the law haas got to be changed so all are under the law, n not just the public.

I have been trying to find the Special Branch (or police list) my son showed me on his phone that details all the men who went into some house watched by the force for sex with young goys. It gives two pop singers, one with a huge fan base, but a Jehova Witness I eonder what they would think! commonly called Kitty in the group. The list is on wearechangeuk.org which I noticed was trolled by a few on here but, nevertheless was hushed up by william hague and recently keith vaz our very own social climber who just loves to chair committees. Incidentially he wants the Baroness schlotch as she is 'establishment' although he doesn't mention her relationship to her brother havers. She is not suitable and I seem to remember a scandal involving her husband in South Africa which she managed to side-step neatly.

Our system of public schools is behind this behaviour to a great extent. They are taught exclusivity for them only and the power these men have to demand whatever they like, when they like. I do hope the public will get behind this and rid us of this unwanted scandal that shames britain, its politics and politicians because how do we know they are not being bribed about their closet secrets when making decisions that affect this country and its people? That is the second issue for me, the first, or course, is the disgraceful behaviour that relegates many men to mere animals - title or not. Anyone who knows a victim of child abuse, especially sexual abuse knows the effect it has mentally on the sufferer and these men need to compensate and go to prison for a very long time. We could almost do with a separate prison for many of our politicians including those who got away with theft and n o prosecution for their expenses. You cannot let the men at the top get away with not going to jail for theft when you send all the rest off to jail for this crime.

a reply to: Flavian

With the loss of files in a place like the Home Office filing system, do you honestly think that evidence won't have been 'lost' or tampered with in police stations and the like. There is a huge cover-up going on to preserve our establishment.

This is a scandal that could well bring down the establishment of this country, so it is not something lightweight people will be wrapping their fish and chips in tomorrow evening. It goes from the royal household down to our politicians, many high civil servants and celebrities. It is one of the most shameful of disgraces a country could face. How do we look abroad to our fellow nations with our nice sweet royal family and toffee nosed pomp etc that gets trolled out at huge public expense venerating many of these paedophiles to the public and the world? I appreciate we are not the only land of wealthy paedophiles in power, but we suck it to the world with our supposed respectability and remnants of applomb from our empire - which none of the individuals involved deserve except to be on an offenders list with their faces named and shamed..

originally posted by: Chiftel

originally posted by: sosobad
It's pretty sad that a thread about a very important revelation gets put into the "left/right" bull#. Can people not just focus on the actual scandal? There was and quite possibly still is some sick #ers in the government abusing kids and covering it up. People should be up in arms about this.

Another one.

No offense, but take a hike if all you wanna do is derail this thread.

originally posted by: Danny85

Couple points about this (I'm British born and bred)

1 - The bloke who got the rent boys for these disgusting rapist pedos should be arrested and charged as well. There's a law that deals with knowingly supplying them for sexual deviants (that's a rough version). 2 - Its time this all comes out, but sadly when the investigation gets done we will only get the gist of everything just like the Blair/Bush inquiry thing thats coming out soon. The 'normal' people dont get to know the truth. why would we, its not like they work for us. 3rd and finally - People who keep saying (and I'm not talking about on this website) say that it was the time, people were afraid they wouldnt be believed or were protecting their own jobs, should be ashamed, imagine if it was there own kid, would they stand back and let it happen to make sure they get the next promotion.

Maybe there is justice in the world, and we wont have another cover-up just like we have been having the last few months. Its time to clean house, name and shame and let them rot in prison (that is unless they can pay off the judges and buy their version of justice).

First of all there is absolutely nothing he could have done. Who would he have gone to?

The Police? - they'd have been ordered to stop investigating and destroy the files, as has happened numerous times before.

Other politicians - they wouldn't have done a thing either, undoubtedly all of the parties had senior people who were at it, so they wouldn't even have used it as ammo against the opposition.

The press - no way they would have printed it, the newspaper owners are in cahoots with the politicians.

In fact it makes you wonder how any of it is being reported now even, and the only conclusion that you can draw is that it's a means to an end, and my belief is that it's laying the groundwork with these older crimes to reveal to the public the newer crimes related to the sexual shennanigans of the Tony Blair era Labour govt.

They are painting the picture that this stuff happened back then "because it was how it was at that time" (which is crap), this is why the celebrities who've all been prosecuted are also from that time, but the shock of a bombshell identifying current and very recent senior Labour politicians will be immense.

It's the general election next year - what better way to turn people off any given political party than smear them like this.

a reply to: Shiloh7

Honestly? No i don't think it will be hushed up. It is out there now and people are aware of it and an investigation will be launched. It won't simply go away. I just wish that due legal process would follow, that is all. If people are found guilty then they should have the keys thrown away - it is an abhorrent crime allegedly perpetrated by those at the very highest levels.

My point is that i don't want to live in a society where you can simply accuse people publicly - which is what our delightfully irresponsible media are currently allowing. It is fast becoming an even more dangerous version of "McCarthyism" for our modern age.

originally posted by: Flavian
I have a problem with this "whistleblower" in that once again it is just more unsubstantiated claims with no evidence to back it up being reported as fact.

There may be a lot to this story and there may be nothing to it at all. It needs investigating first before people are hung out to dry. And, even if proved to be guilty, i abhor the fact that people have been publicly named before an investigation has even taken place - it sets a very dangerous precedent for the legal process in this country. Whatever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

Paedophilia is a disgusting crime but the nature of the crime shouldn't affect the legal process. If there is evidence to back up these claims then present it to the relevent authorities. Otherwise we are one step nearer to a society where you can simply publicly make claims against others without any evidence. Where you can destroy lives simply with a couple of spoken words.

While I see where you are coming from, and understand your concerns I don't think I share them in THIS instance. I think that public figures such as politicians are held to a standard that is different than private citizens. I think the level of trust and responsibility that is placed on them requires a more open and transparent accounting on their possible wrong doings. The possibility of cover up and corruption is too prevalent in the past as well as too possible in the present and future, therefor I would rather see accusations made and proven false while made public instead of kept private until their cronies and friends can make it go away while the public never even has any idea. If they didn't already have a bad track record as well as the responsibility of representing an entire nation politically and socially then maybe I wouldn't feel like this. That's not to say that every accusation should be made, crimes of this nature and importance are on a different level than smoking pot or non-felonies.

In other words, ALL politicians are assumed dirty until proven otherwise. If they don't want this label, then don't run for office. In my opinion assuming the opposite is irresponsible and uneducated. If they didn't spend millions and millions and millions of dollars to get a job that won't pay even a small % of money spent except for their insider trading (which is legal for them) and their cushy corporate jobs after office supplied by the corporations that they helped while in office I wouldn't be so mistrustful. Yeah, I am pretty negative on politicians.

Guy Fawkes had the right idea.

Sick, sick people and they answered to nobody.

a reply to: sputniksteve


I'm giving you a star because i do kind of agree with your sentiments regarding politicians. And anything involving Keith Vaz in this country always makes me wonder (is there a dodgier politician at present?).

My problem is that i try to imagine this roled out to cover everyone (as the law should). Boss annoying you? Simple, accuse them of touching you up.........whilst a far fetched example that is exactly what this type of media coverage is driving towards. How would you feel if someone accused you of such heinous crimes with absolutely no evidence to back up those claims?

Due legal process needs to be followed, to the letter. I would say though that the press should cover this intently - any attempts at cover ups should certainly be reported so that we know it is being taken seriously. I just think the naming should come, preferably, after trial. Or, at the very least, after charges have been brought. Not whilst it is simple speculation.

originally posted by: Chiftel

originally posted by: sosobad
It's pretty sad that a thread about a very important revelation gets put into the "left/right" bull#. Can people not just focus on the actual scandal? There was and quite possibly still is some sick #ers in the government abusing kids and covering it up. People should be up in arms about this.

Another one.

Another one what? You are turning this subject into a farce, this is a very serious scandal one that I believe is still happening to this day, all you are doing is taking focus away from the subject with childish left/right bull#, as for your" another" remark I don't adhere to either side so your comment is invalid, you should be ashamed of your behaviour.

originally posted by: Flavian
I have a problem with this "whistleblower" in that once again it is just more unsubstantiated claims with no evidence to back it up being reported as fact.

There may be a lot to this story and there may be nothing to it at all. It needs investigating first before people are hung out to dry. And, even if proved to be guilty, i abhor the fact that people have been publicly named before an investigation has even taken place - it sets a very dangerous precedent for the legal process in this country. Whatever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

Paedophilia is a disgusting crime but the nature of the crime shouldn't affect the legal process. If there is evidence to back up these claims then present it to the relevent authorities. Otherwise we are one step nearer to a society where you can simply publicly make claims against others without any evidence. Where you can destroy lives simply with a couple of spoken words.

These people are in positions of trust and power, and such there can be no doubt they have the means to cover up and protect each other from justice. This alone means that until the guilty ones are weeded out, none of them should be allowed to continue passing legislation and the rest of it. Whose to say the guilty ones in office, whilst given the benefit of the doubt pending enquiries, wont continue to abuse their positions by further conspiring to pervert the course of justice? We would never get to the bottom of the story.

So kick them all out. Let's see how they like being tarred with the same brush. Maybe if suspicious fingers point at them all, it'll turn some of these 'save-my-own-arse' brigade into co-whistleblowers.

Put pressure on them, take their free houses and benefits off them, and send a message that all the guilty ones are going to be found and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. If we don't, the guilty ones will still be in a position to further abuse their privileged positions, and continue to conspire and bribe and blackmail their escape from justice for the most perverted and vile organised crimes against vulnerable children. Let's not assume they won't, at this stage they have nothing to lose and everything to gain by wriggling out of facing justice if they can. I'm mortified that we have dangerous perverted criminals in charge of our country.

Get them all out at once. They can't be trusted.

a reply to: loam

'm sure after more than 30 seconds of searching I could drum up countless examples of how child sex abuse and its coverups have little to do with left/right ideology.

Well i think one major point being made by chiftel is that conservatives are always on the moral high ground in politics.
For example using religion the traditional family, and of cause law & order as their ethical trumps.
By contrast they try make the left out to always be moral degenerates going so far as to call even centre left parties marxist inspired and godless!
So it does come as an extra shock when its conservatives caught with their pants down in the same way that it does with catholic priests.

People in the highest positions of power within British institutions used this status and power for their own debauched sexual gain, including paedophilia and people are using this to take digs at the right or left wing....

Wow, just wow.

a reply to: LABTECH767

totally believe this, the lack of christian ethics inherent in her government has as the years made me wiser made me realise how evil that bunch really were/are.

I dont believe any serious christian ethics has been in politics ever, not when this even occurred or now!
What evidence do you have, that even so called christian political parties even let the bible influence their political careers we have a few of those jokers in Australia that claim to be both they do nothing different to any secular politician.

a reply to: Flavian

In that case I will return the star again, because I totally understand what you are saying. While I am not in England I share your fear that this would turn into common occurance for private citizens, that I am not OK with. It is a difficult decision to find a happy medium. Maybe names should be held until charges are pressed at the very least, if not until trial. I think I could be happy with waiting until charges are pressed, but again history shows us they are capable of dodging even the most publicized and heinous crimes. For instance the Franklin conspiracy which was brought up. It was made public and the political party in the White House was named and if I remember correctly no politicians were arrested and just 1 stepped down or was fired, scape goating for the rest. Even with a book written by a U.S. Senator that DID name names after a very extensive investigation (where people involved with the investigation died) AND a documentary made still no one was brought to justice really.

I don't know how you separate or change a law to make it different for politicians, that isn't easy to do but I believe still that they should be under more scrutiny than private citizens. In short I don't have a definitive answer, I wish I did. In the end I don't think anything will ever change. They aren't likely to change a law to make it easier for them to be named for crimes in a fashion that differs from private individuals.

a reply to: Flavian

I don't disagree with the point you raised, and I do think that if someone is innocent then they will be able to prove it, were they suspected or interviewed. I just don't want any of these men to get away with this kind of behaviour. Also at the back of my mind are the victims and more importantly if any were actually murdered. I suspect all records of their sad lives will have disappeared unless they had relatives who might be wondering now whether their boy was involved. The list I was shown had at least two Heads of social Services and that does not lie well with our children being kept safe, I also suspect that we will see senior police officers caught up in this investigation.

One thing that actually when I heard it, didn't surprise me in the slightest was how many of them have been given honours by the Queen. That Honours List has more than likely been used as a form of bribery. It opens doors and gives respectability and almost puts one above question, however, I have always thought this list goes out to an odd mix of people, many I could not see the reason for as they were only mildly successful. I suspect that there are recipients of honours whose only contribution is keeping quiet about the power brokers they know about or are co-paedophiles with.

I think we are in a particularly difficult situation because it appears to be so widespread and acceptable within parlaiment itself. It seems to involve a number of paedophile rings and were the police to actually come forward with all the evidence they have received, I suspect our some of our establishments and especially parliament would be missing quite a number of politicians/officers etc and we could not run efficiently if this all hits the fan immediately - not that someone worrying about their past actions catching up with them + the scandal and public anger against them, will be in a mental state to function effectively - so I don't know what the answer is. What is horrifying is the depth and breadth of the people concerned. I suspect there is worry that this could bring down our government.

I'll bet when queenie does her next little list she will have it vetted thoroughly.

a reply to: Shiloh7

Very good post. I agree that there is most likely some bribery involved in this. That and many a favor and Euro/Dollar/Pound/Etc. changing hands. I think you bring up a good point that the breadth and scope of this is so large as to bring up concern of the damage it could do to the government as a whole if all brought to light. In some regards though it seems it makes it all the more important to do it once and for all. While it is a legitimate fear, I don't think it is reason enough to not bring charges on the lot of them. I am sure they could figure out a way to keep the machine running. If that many people are really involved, then they all need to be ridden of as soon as humanly possible.

Rhodes Boyson is an awful person who is in favor of beating children with a cane in schools as punishment.

Here he is in an interview with Ali G (for anyone who doesnt know in the UK being 'caned' is slang for being stoned)



Apparently Rhodes Boyson was furious when he found out he had been tricked in this interview lol

a reply to: Chiftel

"Dude" Quit pretending there's a difference. Do you actually believe politics has anything to do with it? That all pedophiles are either Democrat or Republican? From your use of language, you're young. Let's hope you get wiser as you get older.