Taxing all future Manned space colonization starting with the Moon and Mars!

Youall greedy ferengies

originally posted by: DietJoke
Hello

I am very unimpressed by current ventures to explore and colonize space ... and then it occured to me ... how do we Tax that

You don't. Simple as that.

Space is not the domain of any one nation therefore unless we have a global government there is no legitimate entity which could or should tax such.

Not to mention, taxes would seem to impede the type of development in space unless the taxes were earmarked for other space activities (ie: basic research into new propulsion methods, etc).

a reply to: JadeStar

They maybe should not be taxed by others, but eventually once a colony/settlement gets up and running, it would begin to levy taxes within the colony.

For example, say the colony has been around for 25 to 50 year and is thriving, and in need of a new water distribution system (because the old one can no longer support the larger population). The money to build that new water distribution would need to come from somewhere -- and that somewhere would be from taxes levied on the citizens and businesses of the colony.

However, if that colony is not yet independent and autonomous, and still relies on Earth to support it with technology and supplies, then maybe the Earth should be levying taxes on the colony.

Let's go back to the water distribution system example:
If a colony that still is not able to autonomously support itself (i.e., it needs Earth's help), and it is in need of a new water distribution system, then would it be fair that the money for that new system is paid for by the taxpayers here on Earth? Wouldn't the people using the water system be the ones who would pay for it.

Granted, to get a colony started, the original money for infrastructure should come from outside the colony/colonists, but after a few years, I think those colonists should begin paying their fair share of the cost for infrastructure improvements.

Instead of taxing space ventures (which boost science and technology), we should be taxing armies and armed conflicts. Way too much money is spent on the so-called "defence", which is basically an euphemism for domination and conducting wars.

originally posted by: wildespace
Instead of taxing space ventures (which boost science and technology), we should be taxing armies and armed conflicts. Way too much money is spent on the so-called "defence", which is basically an euphemism for domination and conducting wars.

I don't think "space ventures" should be taxed, either. However, at some point, this "space venture" could become a colony, and eventually an independent "nation". Once the space venture becomes an independent country who needs to do things (build things, provide services to its people, etc.), then they would begin to need to levy taxes and tariffs in order to pay for building things and providing services to its people.

I think the point of interest here isn't really the question, if "earth" will demand taxes or not. It's just a sub-question of a much more bigger topic. Namely the question how mankind will manage the way, how colonies will be administrated and which kind of power structure will therefor evolve.

There are many interesting points belonging to this question but for the sake of simplicity let's break it down to some main aspects:

First of all there would be two different types of colonies:

a) colonies within our solar system and
b) well, you know...other stars

As for a) there will be a big dependency on supplies and support from Earth in the beginning of course. Thus these first colonies will widely stay under the control of several nations, private companies etc.

(Many models would be thinkable here. The least one i'd expect is a kind of "unite world" control. Most probably there will be a struggle even between certain nations ... as always but i said let's keep it simple for now)

Here we have a break even point i think. The type of the political system, that we will have in future ventures, when colonies in other solar systems will be founded, greatly depends on two major key aspects. The way how we will deal with colonies in our own solar system and the technique that we will have, when we spread our seeds to other star systems.

This leads me to b). The first settlers of an exo-planet will emerge out of a certain political system within our own solar system. Meaning they will be part of it and thus will also represent it. When they finally found their new home(s) they will establish a community that represents the political system, they lived in.

Of course after some decades there might come a change and here's the second break even point. Now the above mentioned technique is the next key aspect. Can we communicate with them in a "faster-then-light" way or do we need to wait like 100 years before an order has reached the system and another 100 to receive the message?

I think the question here isn't if "Earth" could back up the power with ships and stuff to keep the control over the exo-colonies. The question is if the technology of FTL-messaging will be available when such a mission first starts to another solar system or not. If not, well then the whole mission will most probably planned as a self sufficient colony without keeping some kind of control over them.

If yes then the whole mission could be planned in a way like we plan our space missions today:

"Houston, we found walking plants here on Gliese581d! What shall we do?"

"Erm, did you just say "walking plants" ? Well, explain them, that we earthlings don't like, when our potatoes go out for a walk. Use your beam weapons to emphasise your point. Housten over."

"Copy that!"

Short of total collapse of Human civilisation, i can't think of another more effective way to stall or prevent a truely civillian space programme from getting off the ground long enough to get to orbit, never mind colonise anywhere else, than introducing recurring financial penalties, aka taxes.

If taxation was strictly limited to successful colonies only, why would a Martian colony be paying taxes to people on another world? This was one of the main problems that lead to the US revolutionary war (of independence from the Brits), so wouldn't be such a great idea to try a re-run of creating that mindset across worlds.

The profit would come in trade i'd imagine, exports and imports. They'd need plenty of what we had on Earth and we'd need plenty of what they would probably have on Mars or the Moon. (H3, minerals, other unknown valuable commodity)..perfect trade situation, and everyone is paid and gets to live without a war of the worlds!

a reply to: MysterX

A colony on Mars would (as some others already pointed out) firstly depend on supllies from earth and secondly it would be run by a single nation or most likely a private corporation, that stands under the law of a single nation.

Then the question wouldn't be "why they should pay taxes". It would just be a normal circumstance, that the profit, made by export would be taxed on earth in the end.

Later on, as said, there will be some kind of another political structure and its interesting to think how this can turn out.

A side note on this issue:

I don't think that paying taxes (in general) was "one of the main problems that lead to the US revolutionary war" . The problem was rather the amount of taxes the british empire demanded and the lack of support from the empire for the colonists.

Long live mars liberation front! Orbital bombardment of earth is the only way to be free!!

originally posted by: optimus primal
Long live mars liberation front! Orbital bombardment of earth is the only way to be free!!

Long live your brain, dude! Because it's the only brain on this planet, that really seems to understand and comprehend the complexity of this topic. An orbital bombardment of your frontal lobe should stop you from writing any more nonsense and provide you the way to your destiny as the one and only leader of a new mars society!

a reply to: Tichy



It was a joke. There's no need to be rude.

a reply to: optimus primal
LOL -- I knew it was a joke -- and a good SciFi one at that.

Thanks for the laugh!

originally posted by: optimus primal
a reply to: Tichy

It was a joke. There's no need to be rude.

You doing it wrong! If it's supposed to be a joke then someone has to laugh. And your little brother Tommy-what-stands-the-D-for doesn't count.

The ferengi one was better.

But i'm not here to insult other people. It's just that i can't stand nonsense posts. Thats all. Nothing personal, though.

So, if you may felt insulted, i'm sorry. But maybe next time act like someone who actually uses the gray matter between his ears and bring something more interesting into this topic.

a reply to: Tichy



Someone needs to unbind their panties.


It was a joke, but it was incredibly relevant. Akin to the Boston tea-party. Talk about using grey matter


edit to add: as an aside, if you feel a member is trying to derail a topic, feel free to alert it tichy. No ones stopping you.

Hmmm, i thought it was maybe not funny but
i snirked my mouth atleast....

It would make a good Sci fi, but
PREEEEEASE keep it atleast 75%
realistic.....

edit to add: as an aside, if you feel a member is trying to derail a topic, feel free to alert it tichy. No ones stopping you.

Thanks but i can handle such things by me-myself-and-i .

Anyway. Speaking of Sci-Fi, i can suggest a good book, that covers many aspects of an empire of solar systems:

The Foundation Trilogy - Isaac Asimov

Given the amount of time it will take to get to any exoplanet colony and the time it would take a message to get to and from it, such colonies would be on their own and independent.

Physics. Speed of light and all that...

There would be nothing they would need from Earth and nothing Earth could do to enforce a taxation regime.

Heck, it would be tricky even for a fully autonomous Martian colony.

Now if someone finds some sort of warp drive and "subspace radio" then that might change but for now both are sci-fi.

originally posted by: JadeStar
[...]
Physics. Speed of light and all that...
[...]
Now if someone finds some sort of warp drive and "subspace radio" then that might change but for now both are sci-fi.

Yep. That's one major key aspect of which system will be established, like i wrote before.