Taxing all future Manned space colonization starting with the Moon and Mars!

Hello

I am very unimpressed by current ventures to explore and colonize space ... and then it occured to me ... how do we Tax that

I propose that all future space colonies situated in low earth orbit or higher such as the Moon and Mars be forced to pay tax back to mother earth.

As there is a current plan to colonize mars ... so we had better work out the best way to Tax them now ... before they have a chance to escape.

I propose a space based police force to enforce space Tax compliance within the solar system.

If such methods work for the solar system then they will probably also work with interstellar colonies around other stars although the timing and amounts may have to be tinkered with to be fair.

What would you propose we do to ensure they pay Taxes in full and on time and what should the penalties for failure to comply be

Pfffth at taxes ... how about all future off world colonies tell earth to stuff their taxes.

a reply to: DietJoke

What exactly would the tax be?

Most taxes have a name, indicating what they are for: Property Tax, Sales Tax, etc.

a reply to: Expat888

Then they wont be allowed to leave! That simple!

a reply to: eriktheawful

Lets call it the "You OWE mother earth your existence!" TAX!

a reply to: DietJoke
Why would you want to send police in space, doesn't swat do enough damage here.
I thought corporations didn't have to pay taxes as long as they give a protection fee oh I mean a donation to a politician.
If NASA is the ones putting colonies on the moon or Mars are they going to launch them on the shuttle or hire Russia to do it.
Is the IRS going to collect the taxes, better hope they don't put it on their hard drives.
Sorry for the sarcasm but isn't their something in the constitution about no taxation without representation.
If they are going for a one way trip I don't think they'll worry about the IRS.

originally posted by: DietJoke
a reply to: eriktheawful

Lets call it the "You OWE mother earth your existence!" TAX!

More than likely the first serious settlements will be by the private sector (mining, zero G manufacturing, etc). The parent companies will already be taxed right here on Earth. Any colonists will also be employees of said companies and their paycheck will already be taxed too.

A free colony, set up by people that just want to leave Earth and live off planet will not be happening for a very, very long time, and the first ones will not really have any kind of "income" to tax in the first place.

Even if they did, as was just mentioned: Exactly how would you "enforce" it? To have a real colony, it has to be self sustaining, meaning they do not need anything here from Earth.

There will be absolutely no way to enforce anything like that at first. None at all.

Nhaa, they just want to secure their power
and control.. No taxes, no leaving... No leaving
control remains...

FEAR is a powerful emotion, sometimes its good and
healthy, but most times its lifethreatening.... And not
just to yourself, mostly to others....

Let's hope that when there is a colony off-planet that it's considered a fresh start. The colonies should be allowed to evolve without the overlords taking part of whatever they gain.

a reply to: eriktheawful

What about the children they spawn???

As for enforcement there are an infinite set of ways to set that up ... forcing all offworlders to have a earth based bank account may be a simple non militant solution.

We could go the whole hog and have the chipped with a quantum entangled chip ... that no matter where they are and what they are doing.. we have access directly to them [make the chip explosive].

originally posted by: LogicalGraphitti
Let's hope that when there is a colony off-planet that it's considered a fresh start. The colonies should be allowed to evolve without the overlords taking part of whatever they gain.

If they are completely autonomous (i.e., having no need for people back Earth to support them with supplies, equipment, food, etc.), then they can be independent and find their own revenue stream for paying for public services amongst themselves (maybe even taxes, but that tax money would stay in the colony).

However, if the colony needs support from Earth, I can see Earth asking them to pay for than support. However, if they are taxed, they would also need to have representation in the body that would be levying the tax. Otherwise, that would be taxation without representation.

Maybe someday there will be a congressman/parliamentarian from Mars here on earth who gets to vote on issues of taxes.

a reply to: DietJoke

You can't tax a child who has no income. Even here in the US we don't do that.

Instead we tax the things that you need to buy for children (IE sales tax, etc).

Again: the first ones will be employees, and will have taxes taken out of their paychecks already.

The type of colonies you're talking about however, will not be around for a very long time (well after my grandkids life time). It's a lot harder to build a space craft to get into space, build a habitat there or on another world, than it was to build a sailing ship and cross the oceans.

I like what the SciFi author Larry Niven did: the first real colonies were in the asteroid belt. The "Belters" declared their independence from Earth. Earth tried to force them.

The Belters simply threatened to use the asteroids on Earth. Nothing like threatening to use a 20 km wide rock traveling at orbital speeds and make it smack into the Earth. Hello Extinction Level Event.

So again: if there are colonies, and the are self supporting, they'll have no need of anything from Earth, they are more than likely not going to pay taxes, nor would there be a easy way to enforce it (your chip idea is a bit of a stretch, as you pointed out, there will be children born there.....no chips).

Isn't that how the American Revolution started? England taxing the colonies to the point of separation? The last thing Earth would want to do would be to force a wedge into its relationship with newly established colonies. Instead, trade relationships should be fostered. No need to tax everyone and everything.

I'd think the quicker we become a cashless society and income isn't the sole motivator anymore, the sooner we can progress in humanity's evolution.

originally posted by: EternalSolace
Isn't that how the American Revolution started? England taxing the colonies to the point of separation?

Taxing -- but without allowing the colonies any representation in parliament (taxation without representation).

It wasn't just the tax that got the American Colonies upset, but also the fact that they could not have a say-so in the levying of such taxes.

a reply to: DietJoke


Ah,so you are all for taxing extra-terrestrial colonists in order to provoke a revolt ala"The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress" by the late great R.A. Heinlein,huh?

a reply to: eriktheawful

Totally agree to that!

We won't have to think about such problems until a real, self supporting and bigger community has established anywhere (well, Mars will be most likely it).

As for our own solar system i even think, that "earths" control (if you want to call it like that) won't vanish so quick just because there are several independent colonies growing on Mars, Moon, Saturns Moons etc. . Most likely, on a parallel time scale, you will have scientific/industriell stations around the orbits of Saturn and/or his moons and maybe elsewhere. The transportation system will therefor no longer be limited to transfers between earth and mars for example and will evolve much faster...at least that's my thought.

Yeesh, anti-space-colonial threads. Is this a sign of things to come?

Many see the future of sustainable colonies on other planets as being the first step towards making the human race a truly survivable species. Right now, we could still all be wiped out by a comet or meteor causing an extinction event on Earth.

So really, Mars-1 is about saving the human species. Maybe they should tax us when the time comes.

a reply to: Tichy

All anyone really needs to do is look at our past history and you can see how it would apply to budding colonies both local (within our solar system) and further.

The colonies here in America paid taxes to England, even though transportation back and forth across the Atlantic was very time consuming, simply because they installed government reps with solders to back them up.

In order to collect taxes (or let's expand that: make those living in those colonies be under the rule of Earth), you would need to have the same thing: government officials and an armed force to back them up locally.

However, considering the vast distances we may be talking about (tens of millions of miles, to billions of miles, to many trillions of miles, light years), being able to commute back and forth may be impractical.

The first interstellar colonies could be made up by people that take generations to get to another star. Those people will rule themselves.

Once FTL travel is possible, then you may be talking about being able to control and tax colonies that are away from Earth.

Before that though, it's simply impractical, if not impossible.

a reply to: DietJoke

Whoever gets to go and colonise one of the moons or Mars will already be an employee. They'll have a salary and pay taxes on it. The corporation that sends them out there will pay taxes on anything it profits from. The Government of whatever country will be sure to create a new tax too as they never miss a trick.

Some folk will get together, call themselves a 'federation' and start charging fees and taxes for anything that looks like it can break low-Earth orbit.

Of all the things we take to the stars...taxes will be one of them. The romance of exploration huh? Sigh...

a reply to: Kandinsky

What if they say they are not part of any Earth country and are space based?