Trusting and Doubting 9/11, a neverending story. Additional T&B-evidence

Sadly...I feel it's all for nothing...in the end...this horrifying truth can never be truly revealed, no matter how much evidence there is to support a conspiracy (inside job)...the fallout would be so devastating that no living soul in the know would dare release it.

Through out time man has searched for things he thought existed.
Eldorado (lost city of gold)
Valhalla
Nibiru
Bigfoot

Me thinks you are hot on the trail of a Unicorn. If you could only hasten your steps you might catch him.

When will the conspiracy believers accept that their evidence is not really evidence at all?

originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly
a reply to: LaBTop

I envy your dedication Lab...you put much time into your posts.

Sadly...I feel it's all for nothing...in the end...this horrifying truth can never be truly revealed, no matter how much evidence there is to support a conspiracy (inside job)...the fallout would be so devastating that no living soul in the know would dare release it.

Ask yourself which is worse: The fallout from the truth coming out (and it will eventually) or the truth not coming out...

In my opinion, the truth coming out is our best chance to turn this planet right-side up again.

soulwaxer

originally posted by: samkent

Sadly...I feel it's all for nothing...in the end...this horrifying truth can never be truly revealed, no matter how much evidence there is to support a conspiracy (inside job)...the fallout would be so devastating that no living soul in the know would dare release it.

Through out time man has searched for things he thought existed.
Eldorado (lost city of gold)
Valhalla
Nibiru
Bigfoot

Me thinks you are hot on the trail of a Unicorn. If you could only hasten your steps you might catch him.

When will the conspiracy believers accept that their evidence is not really evidence at all?

Go on and keep ridiculing us. That's one of the behaviours from you people that helped me open my eyes to the truth.

soulwaxer

a reply to: samkent

Through out time man has searched for things he thought existed.
Eldorado (lost city of gold)
Valhalla
Nibiru
Bigfoot

oh yea!!!...lmao.....bring em ALL in.....

everything but SUPPORTING EVIDENCE!!!


lol.....wouldn't PROVIDING support be better than the pathetic attempt to lumping the ones ASKING questions and DEMANDING the supporting evidence of the already in-place claims pushed as truth.


first come the asserted official claims..

now truthers' here asking questions and DEMANDING that supporting evidence....where is it???

seems NO WHERE if YOU need to respond with the pathetic attempt to discredit the ones asking.....liken asking to BigFoot, LocNess, UFO's....

a reply to: soulwaxer

In my opinion, the truth coming out is our best chance to turn this planet right-side up again.

absolutely!!!!

...and TAKE our Country back from these a**holes...

a reply to: samkent

Through out time man has searched for things he thought existed.

this is about ALL OS pushers PROVIDING support for the bunk they spew......'truthers' need NO evidence to DEMAND yours of the already in place claims PUSHED.

'truthers' do NOT have the prove the OS false
people whom PUSH the official story MUST prove it true....that is what is being asked of them.....which is entirely their responsibility....whether you want to or not.


and the official claims is brand new never before seen physics phenomenon called thermal expansion that works at LOW TEMPS, collapses ALL three building COMPLETELY on 9-11 as NEVER seen before, INCLUDING a 47 story WTC7 which fire SOMEHOW, symmetrically, and completely removed ..

105 vertical feet of LOAD BEARING continuous vertical support....
8 floors of truss assemblies with carrier beams...
lateral, cross, and diagonal bracing throughout...
tens of thousands of bolts and welds...
office contents...
utilities....

in WTC7 ALL before 1.74 seconds to ALLOW the found global unified FFA to occur @ 1.75 seconds to 4.0 seconds.

"the phenomenon that we saw on 9/11 that brought this particular building down was really thermal expansion, which occurs at lower temperatures."

from fire at one end of the building....we can't see...

NCSTAR1A-3.2]"It is likely that much of the burning took place beyond the views of the windows"

When will the conspiracy believers accept that their evidence is not really evidence at all?

yes, when will you conspiracy OFFICIAL STORY pushers realize that changing PHYSICS to suit you then REFUSING to provide the necessary support proving it....does WHAT for ya?????

a reply to: soulwaxer

Ask yourself which is worse: The fallout from the truth coming out (and it will eventually) or the truth not coming out...

You are looking at this from your own personal perspective...

Consider this...what would be the fallout if suddenly, the American citizens understood that their president has lied, manipulated them and killed 3000 of it's own citizens ? What would be the fallout for DOD, NSA, FBI, CIA or NIST for that matter, who would in such a scenario be guilty of either a cover up or gross negligence ? Not to mention international scandals world wide...the downfall of an empire for sure.

Huge deal.


This way...if everybody shuts up...what you don't know, can't hurt you. Majority of people wouldn't want to know the truth if it is ugly. So, there is no fall out for the inside job. As long as it can't be proven concretely...which will never be...for all the mentioned reasons.

Form my perspective...only truth matters...but it's not a all round general sentiment on this planet.

(and it will eventually)

will it ?...I wish I had your confidence. The JFK assassination has been pronounced as a likely conspiracy, yet 50 years later...nobody hanged for it. The truth about JFK shall remain buried for ever...or at least until that time when nothing can be done about it.

originally posted by: soulwaxer
Go on and keep ridiculing us. That's one of the behaviors from you people that helped me open my eyes to the truth.

Yep, that backfire effect is a beach...

Mocking a person's beliefs only makes them cling harder to them.

Sometimes a less in-your-face approach is wise.

Like the post below says, childish remarks only serve to highlight the vast contrasts in mentality...

originally posted by: Skyfloating
But you want to know what actually convinced me of the ID crowd? 10 years of seeing the completely spiteful, mocking and ignorant behavior of atheists/evolutionists on online forums, with their childish remarks on "you believe in the toothfairy, nanananana!" Seeing such a stark contrast in mentality, decency, respect and kindness makes it pretty obvious which if these sides have refined and cultured minds and which are of more simple and coarse intelligence.

In reaction on a few nuclear demolition posts made by signalfire and ParasuvO :

Read this old thread-post for info on the nuclear subject :
The Complete 9/11 Timeline ( interactive )

These next ones, are three of my more extensive posts about Jeff Prager's theories in my thread, titled
WTC destruction, the Leftover candidates, Pro&Contra Arguments :

Two with Jeff"s links in them :

1. Post 1.
This one has the original download link in it.
Be so wise to un-check this remark in its upcoming page :
"Use our download manager and get recommended downloads".
If you do so, you suddenly get the big "DOWNLOAD" clickable sign above that, now by you, unchecked remark. Click that one and you at last can download Jeff's work on pages 19 to 42.
Read it, try to comprehend it, read some more via Google on the subject, and then read Dr. Busby's remarks.

2. Post 2.
This second link to one of my posts has the USGS WTC-dust sampling links in it, taken from 9/11 to 9/23 - 2001.

One, the last one on that page 1, is about the critique he got and was so honest to also publish, from Dr Chris Busby :

3. Post 3.
Quoted (by me) texts are from Dr Chris Busby, and the excerpted (by me) texts are from Jeff Prager.

Not so long ago (weeks) I posted that member Tom Bedlam noted once that Jeff had to look for Deuterium in lockstep with the Tritium levels, and then he could undoubtedly prove a fission process had taken place at the WTC's, causing those other locksteps too.

I found no Deuterium to have been sampled by the USGS from 9/11 to 23/11 - 2001.

Anybody having found any indication of Deuterium levels in WTC dust samples?
And then also in lockstep with Tritium, H-3.
I have such a dark suspicion we will not be able to find those online...ever.

One, since they flushed the debris with "a whole lake" of water,
Two, it rained quite severe two days later, which water all thinned out the ev. Deuterium to perhaps been measured by some really suspicious researcher, who now knows his head is at risk if he leaks such damning information.
Three, deuterium is difficult to measure in a dry dust sample. You must have a wet sample, or a water sample.
And four, rock solid evidence for all samples that they come from the 9/11 WTC or Pentagon sites.

=======================================================

I'll explain why, as told by Dr Busby, Jeff's thesis has some incorrect arguments, but also some correct conclusions. I however think that Jeff and Chris have to look at some other possibillities too, for an explanation for all those lock-stepped elements :

Subject : WTC trace elements arguments.

Dear Jeff

I have briefly examined the paper presenting an argument, on the basis of “trace element” concentrations in dust and on girder residues from the WTC, that the buildings were destroyed by nuclear fission.
The arguments are incorrect for a number of reasons.
However, the evidence is interesting and I will briefly discuss the issues :

Barium and Strontium are not trace elements, they are common constituents of any material that contains Calcium (concrete) as they are in the same chemical group and occur together. I agree however that they are present in very much higher amounts than they should.
Both elements are toxic but not highly toxic.

A correlation between Ba and Ca would be expected in any sample since they occur together and with Ca because they are in Group II of the periodic table and share chemistry.

But it is highly unusual to find such high levels of Barium.
I also found high levels Barium and Strontium in war debris in Gaza, Fallujah Iraq and the Lebanon.

You do not get high levels of Bariums and Strontium from nuclear fission. They are both fission products in the form of Ba-140 and Sr-89 and Sr-90, but the quantities in grams are ridiculously low.
You must not confuse activity (Becquerel) with mass (grams).

The whole of the Sr-90 releases from Fukushima, or from Chernobyl amount to a few grams.
A fission yield of a 2 Megaton Test (which would have destroyed New York entirely) would make only 1014 Bq of Sr-90 and represents 18grams.

For Barium it is less than 1 gram. So this argument about too much Sr and Ba does not work.

The argument is even more absurd when applied to Thorium (see below). C-14 is not formed by fission but by neutron activation.

Although Thorium-234 is formed by fission of Uranium, the quantities are even smaller than Ba and Sr because the half-life of Th-234 is less than a month. So the amount of Th-234 made from 1 gram of U-239 is less than 1 x 10>11 g.
The ratio of U to Th on this basis would be 1 to 10>11.

OK, let’s move on to what could have happened, based on my deconstruction of the data from the war zones:
The concentration of Uranium is a key.
This is slightly too high in the dust and much too high in the girder coatings.
The activities for 2.7, 3.2, 4.7 and 7.57 are 33, 40, 58 and 93Bq/kg.

The graph shows that there is too much U on the girder coatings.
Normal levels of U are about 12, at most 40Bq/kg.

My belief is that there is a cold fusion weapon or device of some sort.
This employs Uranium and Deuterium.

The output is neutrons, lots of heat, lots of energy, gamma radiation. The device is the size of an apple or grapefruit but heavy (20-40kg).

No radioactivity after the explosion except from Tritium H-3 which together with Helium He-4 is the product (of the explosion) and also some short-lived gamma radiation from neutron activations products (e.g. Ca-45 from the Ca in the concrete, Fe-55 from the steel).
These would be radioactive for a few days only.
(LT :all bolded emphasis's are mine)

You would thus expect to find too much Uranium and also Tritium.
You find both.
There is a paper showing high levels of Tritium in the water at WTC.
We also see U levels are too high.
Maybe the Barium is part of this mixture, and the Strontium.
I have certainly found high levels of both in my war samples.

Regards, Chris Busby

=======================================================

Dr Busby did research, in war theatres, on the use of depleted uranium tipped shells used as munition by the US, GB and Israel.
It's interesting that he found also heightened levels of Barium and Strontium, just as the USGS did in Manhattan on and after 9/11....

Why should the 9/11 Planners not have contemplated on their introduction of the use of DU in cutter charges?
It would be a great enhancement instead of the usual Copper lined cutter charges that can cut thinner construction steel like butter.

The reason being, that the steel in the Twin Towers and WTC 7 was exceptionally thick, especially in the 42 core columns and their cross-beams at every floor of the twin towers.
And the beams and columns above the CON-ED energy station under WTC 7.
Its use would ensure successful cutting of these lower, massive steel core-columns.
Since DU is a much denser and heavier metal than Cu. And its plasma disc will cut even those thick steel columns like butter, as they demonstrated on the various war theaters by cutting through 10 cm thick tank walls, with lesser speeds.

I would like to see Jeff Prager here in this thread, or in my other one.

To ask him if Deuterium or Lithium deuteride (Li-6) could still be found in someones sealed-off glass jar filled with original WTC dust or water. I expect the dust to needed to be water-whetted first.
And then get analyzed on some country's international TV networks. F.ex., Russia's RU or China's CSST.

Or Ca-45 dust from the Ca in the concrete, Fe-55 dust from the steel, but these would be radioactive for a few days only anyhow, and then degraded/decayed back to natural Calcium (Ca) and Iron (Fe).

I also found it highly suspicious that by direct orders from the White House, on 9/12 the two USGS researchers who had already arrived near Ground Zero, and later all their also arriving USGS - colleagues, were explicitly denied entrance to the actual WTC debris heaps, and thus you now can find in their dust samples lists only spot measurements from quite outside the periphery of the WTC compounds.

And you really think not one of them a bit braver than the rest, did not sneak in and took some private samples, later distributed to several colleagues in other countries, to use when needed? Or rescue workers, or police officers, or firefighters? Welders, truck drivers, etc. etc.?
Of course there are lots of WTC-dust jars all over the country(s).

And there were University researchers with Geiger counters reporting heightened radiation values in New York and at the Pentagon on 9/11 - 2001.....Especially alpha and beta radiation levels.
You need special ones to measure that, and they used those in the streets around the events. And downwind wards.

=======================================================

This is the link to (now) the last post in my other thread, read it too, as additional information on my above remarks on the eventual nuclear side of the WTC 9/11 subject.

Since there seem no takers on the subject anymore, I'll explain my take on it, if that was not clear to anyone yet.

The 9/11 Planners must have used depleted Uranium liners in their steel-columns cutter charges.
Then, after reading Jeff's excellent work, you can see that his research is based in essence on the slightly too high presence of Uranium in the USGS dust samples. Which thus can be explained by the presence of DU-lined cutter charges.

DU-linings that got turned into DU-plasma discs by the RDX filled DU-linings, that exploded with at least 7,000 m/s.
I also already explained my take on the explanation of what happened on 9/11, which is the use of thermobaric bombs, which of course also could have been constructed with some sort of dispersible DU-dust clouds as part of their chemical dust cloud that gets electrified in the second stage by the piezoelectric charging in the second stage, and then ignited in the third stage by a very small RDX charge. RDX can be exchanged for any other high speed explosive.
TB's have explosive speeds of above 20,000 m/s, while f.ex. neutron bombs have explosive speeds of around 100,000 m/s. RDX has explosive speeds of around 7 to 9,000 m/s.

All the traces of Uranium decay products found by Jeff in lockstep with each other can IMHOP also be explained by the presence of depleted Uranium at the WTC and Pentagon demolition sites on 9/11.

From Jeff Prager's pages 19 to 42 of his nuclear thesis :

Titanium measured as 0.26% of the dust or 2600ppm on average and is present across nearly all sample locations at 0.25-0.3% except for the sample taken as WTC01-02, at the intersection of York and Water Streets, where Titanium measured 3900ppm.
Manganese averaged 0.11% or 1100ppm.

-- Sodium (Na) and Potassium (K) are unusually high and Titanium (Ti) at an average of 2600ppm or 0.26% and Manganese (Mn) at an average of 1100ppm or 0.11% are high and should be found in Trace quantities but were found in the Major Elements section of the USGS report.
-- 1 part per million is 1 ten thou­sandth of a percent.

-- The figures for Barium, Strontium and Zinc literally leap off the page. Barium, Strontium and Zinc have the highest levels, the highest concentrations across ALL of the sampling locations.

-- The highest concentrations discovered were for Barium, Strontium and Zinc followed closely by Lead, Copper and Chromium. These concentrations far exceed what would normally be considered to be Trace amounts. There is be­tween 1g/kg and 3g/kg of Zinc in the World Trade Center dust. There is more then 0.7g/kg of Strontium with over 3g/kg at one location. These quantities are unprecedented. To begin with, a Trace amount would be considered to be less then 10ppm but that doesn’t mean that even 10ppm of some substances would be acceptable or normal.
-- The Mean concentration for Barium including the very low girder coating samples is 533ppm and for Strontium it’s 727ppm. These are not Trace amounts. They are highly dangerous and extremely toxic amounts.
They are also critical components of nuclear fission and the decay process.
-- This shows a fairly homogeneous dispersal of the radionuclides by the blast (with the exception of one data point at WTC01-16) and that the Barium and Strontium concentrations are related in a fairly distinct and narrow band – they were produced by a common process. The very high concentration at WTC01-16 tells us even more and fits the correlation perfectly – evidently the process that produced the Barium and Strontium was still ongoing at that location, leading to an extremely high concentration there.
-- To obtain a Correlation Coefficient of 0.9897 with this number of measurements around Lower Manhattan is very, very significant indeed. What this means is that we can say that there’s a 99% correlation in the variation in the concentration between these two elements. They vary in lockstep; they vary together, similarly. When one varies, so does the other. We can state with absolute mathematical certainty that any change in the concentration of one of these elements, either the Barium or Strontium, is matched by the same change in the concentration of the other.
Whatever process gave rise to the presence of the Barium or the Strontium must have produced the other as well.
There is only one process that can account for this and produces both. A very well known process indeed that this report discusses intimately :
Nuclear Fission.

Note that depleted Uranium has also undergone nuclear fission in a nuclear reactor, before it got stacked up in secure warehouses, and then later transported to weapon factories.

=======================================================

Here's another David Chandler video I had not seen yet.
He shows relatively small but powerful cutter charges that cut a corner column construction in the already falling top part of the North Tower.
Indicating that a variety of demolition techniques was used to get those buildings going down, and keeping it that way all the way down. In my opinion without micro-nuclear-bombs assistance. But DU could have been used as a more massive impact cutter charge choice.

Title : Cutter Charges in the North Tower of the World Trade.
www.youtube.com...


=======================================================

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
Every single "truther" argument has been countered. Pick one argument and make a thread. Not going to read 10 pages of text to only have you change goal posts and ignore facts.

OK, let's see if OccamsRazor04 stands up to his promises.
Let's start with the first evidence, (1.) After that, we will proceed, one by one from that LIST.

LIST :

1. Counter David Chandler's WTC North Tower's constant downward acceleration graph, that should have been a down-sloping, then up sloping graph if it had been a true gravitational collapse. In which, gravitational forces normally meet resistance from still erect parts of buildings.

It turned out however, to be a constant down sloping graph, meaning the collapsing top portion of the North Tower with the huge antenna on its roof, encountered on its way down, no ADDITIONAL RESISTANCE from the still standing huge portion of that North Tower situated below the collapse initiation floors/points.

David Chandler graphed the collapse-fall-speed acceleration of a specific point on its roof rim that he zoomed-in to maximum visibility, as one pixel, all the time until it went out of sight below the collapse initiation point, into the developing explosions clouds.

I observe that WTC North Tower's constant downward acceleration graphs-video is again removed by Google, here is the same one, now from David himself :

Title : What a Gravity-Driven Demolition Looks Like
www.youtube.com...


David Chandler 2010 "9/11 Analysis" :
www.youtube.com...

Beginning at 8:45 in the video, David shows us the acceleration diagram for WTC 7, and also shows us the deceleration starting after these amazing 2.5 secs of totally full free-fall acceleration.
At 51:00, for the North Tower, David did the same and proved that all the time we are able to see the point on the corner of its roof, falling: there is no deceleration at all.
The slope of the graph's line stays the same constant angle, all that time. No sidewards displacement of that line, and change in slope angle, at all.
Which means, no resistance met by the falling top of that building, which only occurs in demolition jobs.

Here is David Chandler's own video channel, with all his own You Tube posted videos :
www.youtube.com...

That way, you can find back all his videos which I posted in my threads and that are now blacked-out because Google terminated the guy's huge videos-account.

=======================================================

The work of Thomas Townsend Brown :
www.ttbrown.com...

Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Post by Rose » Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:22 pm
Nate and i both changed rank recently...I assume the new insignia is going to arrive in the mail?

I've seen that article before, E. It certainly is a meaty one. These snips are worth repeating for everyone to see:

. Biological warfare projects were investigated with Stormont laboratories looking into the creation of 'pathogenic viruses' and enhanced fuel-air explosive weapons were created and tested in league with Meridian Arms at the NEVADA TESTING RANGE which matched the explosive power of nuclear devices.
"These enhanced weapons gained their power from polarizing the molecules in the gas cloud by modification of the electric field, a technology developed from exploring Thomas Townsend Brown's suppressed work, a knowledge which Riconosciuto claims he gained from working at LEAR in Reno, Nevada.

Note1 "The so-called drug operation broken up in Washington State was an electrohydrodynamic mining operation claimed Gunderson, using Townsend Brown technology. A videotape viewed by this journalist revealed metallic powders and apparent processes unrelated to drug manufacture. Indeed, a government analysis of soil samples revealed the absence of drug contamination, but a high concentration of barium. Barium is often found in high voltage related work.

" Wackenhut is also responsible for security of a lot of UNDERGROUND FACILITIES in California and Nevada, including the notorious S-4 or Area 51 in Nevada where Townsend Brown flying disk technology (written about in a T.C. recent issue) has been flying and developing for decades.

I've tried to track down the TC Technical Consultant magazine/newsletter that was twice referenced, but other than this article, i find no mention of it anywhere. However, I think it is interesting that these mentions of TTB's work come from a source whose knowledge of so many other nefarious schemes has been vetted by the RCMP, which investigated the Octopus affair thoroughly in conjunction with something else that was never revealed.

And in a small world aside, my hub and I were once the overnight guests in the Mt. Shasta home of Mark Nichols (son of John and subsequent CEO of the Cabazon tribe). He seemed like a terribly nice person who passionately believed in Indian Sovereignty, but isn't it odd that he would automatically assume his father's old job upon his death?

more later,
rose

Note1 : That was the operation that put Michael Riconosciuto in jail on trumped-up drug charges. To get him out of the way of the CIA who stole his work on TB's.

It is very interesting, to see the presence of high Barium ppm-counts in soil where high voltage related work. is performed.
I think Jeff Prager and Dr Chris Busby should be contacted to let them know about this, and my above posts.

I suppose the poster who wrote that Jeff is up for debate of his excellent work all the time, could reach him? And introduce him to this thread.

=======================================================

That poster was signalfire, on page 1, and this is the link to his excellent post.

Dammit, signalfire, I apologize, I did not read those two links of yours, because I read them a few years ago, and thought they were still the same. WRONG !

They are much much better now, and much bigger, with more hi-res pictures and the subjects much better explained now.
I must have read a beta version at that date.....

I advice every honest 9/11 researcher to really really deep-read Jeff's work, it is outstanding in its league.

I still think however, after re-evaluating David Chandler's videos, and my own thermobaric weaponry research, that what we see in those twin tower collapse videos, are modern, sophisticated cutter charges (ev. DU tipped) and TB's blowing up whole floors and grinding all floor-plate's concrete/cement to fine dust particles in the process.
And as you see in my last post, excessive Barium traces are connected to electrostatic charges as used in TB's.

Tony Szamboti, M.E. :
www.youtube.com...


This Mechanical Engineer explains a whole load of NIST lies and their deliberate "misconceptions".

His 30 minutes long interview can be used to counter Trusters posts, asking for experienced 9/11 explanation based on engineering facts.

For sure this is exactly that.

1.5 % of the by NIST saved WTC steel, experienced temperatures that would have caused it to loose strength.
98.5 % of that recovered steel did NOT experience those temps.!
Measured by NIST itself...

=======================================================

a reply to: LaBTop
I think you are too heavily involved in the 911 conspiracy.
It's not healthy.

a reply to: samkent

I think you are too heavily involved in the 911 conspiracy.
It's not healthy.

mass murder of 3000 innocents and the perps are still here walking around amongst us....

and the only response is more drive-by shooting from the peanut gallery.

instead of wasting energy on distractions, how bout providing support for the NEW physics claimed to do all that work in WTC7....ALL before 1.74 seconds to allow the global unified CONSTANT acceleration equal to g. @1.75 seconds to 4.0s...as found by the initial 2005 NIST and hidden with NEW PHYSICS by the 2008 NIST hypothesis crew...

"the phenomenon that we saw on 9/11 that brought this particular building down was really thermal expansion, which occurs at lower temperatures."

how does a claimed fire at ONE end of the building GLOBALLY remove BEFORE 1.74 seconds either all at once of at the very least, 'AHEAD' of the collapse wave remove..

105 vertical feet of LOAD BEARING continuous vertical support columns....
8 floors of truss assemblies with carrier beams...
lateral, cross, and diagonal bracing throughout...
tens of thousands of bolts and welds...
office contents...
utilities....

all MUST disappear to allow the 105 vertical feet of FFA.....oh please show me how 'warm steel' does all that work of removing itself.